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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by matty032 View Post
    Palm told me they wanted to be cremated, not laid to rest in a coffin.
    Really?

    Ok, so I figure we need one urn for the ashes and about 42 others to hold all the "final nails" (that we know of). Make sense?
  2. ediamond's Avatar
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    #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Ediamond, the Centro is a very pocketable device, the camera is the best yet for any Palm phone, BT works very well, surprisingly good battery life and at $99 (plus if you can snag a Sero plan) is one of the best values for smartphone today. Cracking that $99 barrier for a robust smartphone w/ a touchscreen is a significant step for the industry.
    When you say the the camera is the bast yet for any Palm, I think you are missing the point. Nokia is rolling out 5MP cameras in their smartphones. Even the iPhone has a 2MP camera. a 1.3 mp camera is an afterthought. All of those things you mentioned: BT, Battery life, and camera have to be compared not to other Palm products but to their competition.

    A 4 hour talk time (for Centro) vs. 7 hours for Blackberry Curve, 7 hours for iPhone and 5 hours for Sidekick III is less than compelling. Bluetooth 1.2 vs 2.0 support for most other phones...I think you see where this is going.

    $99 for a smartphone isn't bad, and while I applaud Palm for at least going the low end cheap route, this is not the way to take on your competition. Blackjacks can be had for $99, Pearls for $150 and the 8525 (HTC) for $150. All of these phones outperform the Centro with technology and all of these phones have already been surpassed by higher end products. I doubt the Centro is going to win significant numbers of new converts to PalmOS. It might be compelling for those who already use POS, and who don't want to spend a lot of money while waiting for the Cobalt/ALP/Whatever Linux platform to come in.

    When comparing features, one must look at the capability one can get from other similarly priced products in the marketplace.
  3. json's Avatar
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    #83  
    i have been preaching that to people for the longest. why half *** it by coming out with what's now 2 year old tech when the industry is moving forward. 1.3 mp camera, BT 2.0, wifi , gps. Yeah there are crybaby's out that are gonna cry "we don't need or have use for this or that" but wouldn't you like to be able to say i can do that or be able to acomplish something cause the tools are there?
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by ediamond View Post
    When you say the the camera is the bast yet for any Palm, I think you are missing the point. Nokia is rolling out 5MP cameras in their smartphones. Even the iPhone has a 2MP camera. a 1.3 mp camera is an afterthought. All of those things you mentioned: BT, Battery life, and camera have to be compared not to other Palm products but to their competition.

    A 4 hour talk time (for Centro) vs. 7 hours for Blackberry Curve, 7 hours for iPhone and 5 hours for Sidekick III is less than compelling. Bluetooth 1.2 vs 2.0 support for most other phones...I think you see where this is going.

    $99 for a smartphone isn't bad, and while I applaud Palm for at least going the low end cheap route, this is not the way to take on your competition. Blackjacks can be had for $99, Pearls for $150 and the 8525 (HTC) for $150. All of these phones outperform the Centro with technology and all of these phones have already been surpassed by higher end products. I doubt the Centro is going to win significant numbers of new converts to PalmOS. It might be compelling for those who already use POS, and who don't want to spend a lot of money while waiting for the Cobalt/ALP/Whatever Linux platform to come in.

    When comparing features, one must look at the capability one can get from other similarly priced products in the marketplace.

    Whoa! You just mixed 2 completely different things together. First you say Palm's camera is only 1.3 MP. Then you say you can get the other phones for similar prices as the Centro. So what. None of those phones can do MORE than the Centro can. Period. The Blackjack is close but guess what. No touchscreen. That leaves it short. The 8525 may be able to do as much as (but not more than) the Centro but it's still $50 more and more cumbersome.

    What is your point? That the Palm OS is old. Well we can all count so we know that. If your point is that the Palm OS is not functional than you are sadly mistaken. I have a computer with Vista on it and a computer with XP. I have them connected via KVM so I can switch between the two easily. I still prefer XP and use it more than the Vista machine. New doesn't always mean better and better doesn't always mean necessary.

    The difference between a 1.3 MP camera and a 2 MP camera means nothing. They will both be crappy. If you want to make it better add a flash. That is an improvement that can have a real impact. Now 5 MP is a different story. That is going to get real good quality but I hope it has a flash still. That phone isn't $99 dollars is it? Bluetooth 2.0 is rarely mentioned by anyone. What feature will it bring to our smartphones that we don't already have? Everyone complains about Palm's bluetooth but I don't have any issues using my bluetooth GPS adapter with TomTom, Google Maps, or Live Search. Also some headsets work better than others. Makes you wonder which side the problem is actually from.

    Simply put. Palm has THE best $99 smartphone on the market. That same $99 dollar phone is actually one of the top 5 smartphones out right now, period. You may argue but all of the reviews and awards agree.

    Palm's biggest weakness has always been marketing. Even when the Treo was by far the biggest and the baddest they didn't market it that way. Then along comes the lowly iPhone with a stellar marketing campaign. Once the SDK comes out the iPhone may be worth the money. Until then forget it.
  5. JayC3's Avatar
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    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by BigTreo View Post
    Simply put. Palm has THE best $99 smartphone on the market. That same $99 dollar phone is actually one of the top 5 smartphones out right now, period. You may argue but all of the reviews and awards agree.
    I think you have to put the following for that $99 dollar tag : "After instant discount, mail-in rebate, and qualifying two-year Sprint service agreement"

    The real price of the Centro is $399.00, which is the same price as an unlocked 680. The Centro will not sell for $99 outside the US (due to carrier subsidies). I believe they should have made the Centro $149 (without contract) and sold it for free (with contract) with Sprint's subsidies. That would have made the Centro more popular with the kids.

    I don't like the way carriers in the US heavily subsidies the phones. I would rather buy an unlocked phone and pay for the whole price and pick the best monthly plan there is for me.

    I believe it was a mistake that Palm needed 18 months for Palm OS II. They should have planned this 12 months ago. It clearly shows that Palm has only short term plans in order to meet their quarterly targets.

    By the time they get Palm OS II out, they're already at the bottom of the smartphone race. There will be already 4 major competing mobile OS on the market (WinMob, Symbian, OSX, Android). And it will have bugs (Palm OS II I mean) that is for sure, as with all 1st gen product.

    Palm OS II is a good idea, but developing a mobile linux platform is no small feat as Linux was originally designed for speed and not for mobile devices. You can ask Access (5 years in dev) or Google (3 years in dev) about this.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by ediamond View Post
    When you say the the camera is the bast yet for any Palm, I think you are missing the point. Nokia is rolling out 5MP cameras in their smartphones. Even the iPhone has a 2MP camera. a 1.3 mp camera is an afterthought. All of those things you mentioned: BT, Battery life, and camera have to be compared not to other Palm products but to their competition.

    A 4 hour talk time (for Centro) vs. 7 hours for Blackberry Curve, 7 hours for iPhone and 5 hours for Sidekick III is less than compelling. Bluetooth 1.2 vs 2.0 support for most other phones...I think you see where this is going.

    $99 for a smartphone isn't bad, and while I applaud Palm for at least going the low end cheap route, this is not the way to take on your competition. Blackjacks can be had for $99, Pearls for $150 and the 8525 (HTC) for $150. All of these phones outperform the Centro with technology and all of these phones have already been surpassed by higher end products. I doubt the Centro is going to win significant numbers of new converts to PalmOS. It might be compelling for those who already use POS, and who don't want to spend a lot of money while waiting for the Cobalt/ALP/Whatever Linux platform to come in.

    When comparing features, one must look at the capability one can get from other similarly priced products in the marketplace.
    Yup, a 5mp Nokia on what carrier and with no 3g? So I'll have to pay $30 in data for Edge?

    Blackberry Curve's do not get 7 hours talk time (more like 4) and if you want to be fair, compare CDMA phones to CDMA phones as it is well established that GSM has poorer signal penetration but much better battery life. I could also suggest that the Razr gets 3.5 hours of talk time and the Razr2 gets "nearly 3 hours"--yet how are those doing for sales?

    Unfortunately the market has spoken: who cares about talk time, thin is in.

    BT 2.0 is only as good as it is implemented. HTC Mogul has it and it's not very good.

    Pearls for $150...and the BES plan to go along with that? Yes...the common folk love BB plans.

    How is an entry level smartphone, meant for people who would buy a Razr or some Sanyo flip going to be in the same market as a BB Pearl? Or an 8525...a brick of a PPC that is hardly pocketable.

    The Centro is a $99 entry-level smartphone on Sprint's fast and cheap 3g network (and lots are getting in SERO, which makes it the best deal for a device and plan around--no contest). It comes with free push email, built IM, PocketTunes Deluxe, Docs to Go, streams YouTube Mobile and has the best SMS client around. All in a tiny form factor with the ease of use of Palm OS. Add to that very good hardware and build quality.

    Yet I'm supposed to be impressed with a 5mp shooter that can't do 3g, costs $600 and is not available on any carrier? This is what a $99 phone should be like? Can I email or MMS those 5mp photos to anyone? Can I upload them to blog? Nope. So what's the point? When Sprint's Rev A comes out for EV, then I'll be interested in bigger MP cameras since our upload rate will be 10x that of todays.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  7. ediamond's Avatar
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    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by BigTreo View Post
    Whoa! You just mixed 2 completely different things together. First you say Palm's camera is only 1.3 MP. Then you say you can get the other phones for similar prices as the Centro. So what. None of those phones can do MORE than the Centro can. Period. The Blackjack is close but guess what. No touchscreen. That leaves it short. The 8525 may be able to do as much as (but not more than) the Centro but it's still $50 more and more cumbersome.
    Touchscreen aside, WM phones still have the same utility. Does the blackjack work in exactly the same WAY as a Palm? Nooooo. The Blackjack has 3g, which the PAlm (on GSM) does not. The PalmOS at this point is barely usable without third party software to enhance it.


    Quote Originally Posted by BigTreo View Post
    If your point is that the Palm OS is not functional than you are sadly mistaken. I have a computer with Vista on it and a computer with XP. I have them connected via KVM so I can switch between the two easily. I still prefer XP and use it more than the Vista machine. New doesn't always mean better and better doesn't always mean necessary.
    My point is that Palm's technology is 2-3 years (best case) behind their competition. That's not a good position to be in, is it? I mean, for business? I mean, I ain't no MBA or nuthin' but shouldn't Palm be trying to make money? With products that are BETTER than their competition? I'm glad you prefer XP over Vista. I prefer fountain pens over ballpoints. But better means better. Not newer. You can say, "Oh, I don't need this," or "I won't use that," but you are just rationalizing. Palm's sync is not better (certainly not on a Mac unless you pony up $40 for Missing Sync and even then it's not so great).

    Quote Originally Posted by BigTreo View Post
    The difference between a 1.3 MP camera and a 2 MP camera means nothing. They will both be crappy. If you want to make it better add a flash. That is an improvement that can have a real impact. Now 5 MP is a different story. That is going to get real good quality but I hope it has a flash still.
    Hmmm. Funny you mention that. Nokia just started shipping such a phone. The N82. 5MP, Zeiss lens AND a Xenon flash. And the difference between a 1.3 MP camera and a 2.0 MP camera is that with the 2.0 camera I can use SCANR to capture whiteboards in meetings and email them to myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigTreo View Post
    That phone isn't $99 dollars is it? Bluetooth 2.0 is rarely mentioned by anyone. What feature will it bring to our smartphones that we don't already have? Everyone complains about Palm's bluetooth but I don't have any issues using my bluetooth GPS adapter with TomTom, Google Maps, or Live Search.
    More reliable connections. Clearer audio. And everybody complains about Palm Bluetooth because Palm's Bluetooth stack is terrible. Iím glad you like yours, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigTreo View Post
    Simply put. Palm has THE best $99 smartphone on the market. That same $99 dollar phone is actually one of the top 5 smartphones out right now, period. You may argue but all of the reviews and awards agree.
    So all the stellar reviews for the iPhone you chalk up to "slick marketing," but reviews for the Centro I am to treat as gospel? Which is it? The fact that it is $99 doesn't mean a whole lot. People will routinely pay more to get a better experience. Palm is in business to make money. Did it ever occur to you that the margins on the Centro are tiny compared to HTC or Blackberry? Apple's margins are quite healthy and people are still lining up for them. What is the best $25 smartphone? Which one is the best FREE smartphone? Does it matter? Is the Centro the best Palm could do? Perhaps the Centro is $99 because it isn't worth more than that. I'm betting that it will be free before too long and people still won't want them.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigTreo View Post
    Palm's biggest weakness has always been marketing. Even when the Treo was by far the biggest and the baddest they didn't market it that way. Then along comes the lowly iPhone with a stellar marketing campaign.
    Wow, you just don't get it. Palm's marketing is great. It's always been great. It is their products that suck eggs, especially compared to comparable products. Even the best thing about Palm, Chattermail (a third party product) is comatose, thanks to Palm. I'm glad they gave Marc a position with bennies, but they left the best thing about Palm to languish, instead of building the Centro around Chattermail. Now that might have been cool. Hell, even a refresh of the OS, with a nicer font would have been cool.

    My point? Centro is but a lame distraction that Palm hopes will keep it's loyal users placated while it designs it's next OS. It's track record is terrible, and without a major change, I don't think they will survive. In the wake of the iPhone (a product that had a 6 month lead time) all the other manufacturers are readying their touch screen interfaces. HTC Touch is ready to go Gen 2. Symbian touch is steaming ahead. Nokia has a phone for everyone and is experimenting with using their phones as journalism tools. By the time iPhone goes 2.0, where will Palm be? MULTITASKING? supporting BT2.0? Or will they be releasing yet ANOTHER Garnet machine in fun fruity colors? Will anybody care?
  8. ediamond's Avatar
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    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Yup, a 5mp Nokia on what carrier and with no 3g? So I'll have to pay $30 in data for Edge?
    You can get Nokia N95 for US 3g. Unlocked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Blackberry Curve's do not get 7 hours talk time (more like 4) and if you want to be fair, compare CDMA phones to CDMA phones as it is well established that GSM has poorer signal penetration but much better battery life.
    Most consumers don't care about comparing CDMA to CDMA. They pick a phone that does what they want and a plan they can live with. Most don't care what the underlying technology is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    BT 2.0 is only as good as it is implemented. HTC Mogul has it and it's not very good.
    But Sony Ericsson has it and it is superb. So is Blackberry's. Crystal clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Pearls for $150...and the BES plan to go along with that? Yes...the common folk love BB plans.
    Uh, no, they can choose the very affordable BIS plan, and get most of the same functionality. And common folk do like them. I know tons of people who have them and have no IT department. I loved my Pearl, but had to give it up because I couldn't get the sync to work reliably with the Mac.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    How is an entry level smartphone, meant for people who would buy a Razr or some Sanyo flip going to be in the same market as a BB Pearl? Or an 8525...a brick of a PPC that is hardly pocketable.
    That's just it. People who are looking for thin pocket phones aren't going to buy a clunky Centro, they want something thin and sexy. If they are going to buy an entry level smartphone they want something with email, browser and pocketable. Pearl is the perfect entry to the smartphone world. So is the Blackjack or iPhone, or Sidekick. Or Helio. If they are power users, there are a whole host of WM phones with nice large responsive keyboards, video cameras and touch screens. Where does Palm fit it? they are not sexy enough to compete with thin, nor are they capable enough for power users. I'll be interested to see how Centro does in comparison to the Pearl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Yet I'm supposed to be impressed with a 5mp shooter that can't do 3g, costs $600 and is not available on any carrier? This is what a $99 phone should be like? Can I email or MMS those 5mp photos to anyone? Can I upload them to blog? Nope.
    Sure you can blog them. Nokia has an excellent blog client. You can email them And you can downsample them and MMS them to whomever you like. Sending full res photos might not be fun under EDGE or 3g, but you can do it. But you can easily downsample. Can you upsample on the Palm? In fact, Reuters is in a pilot program outfitting its reporters with N95-based story collection tools. Not Palm. And the N95 certainly does do 3g. You just have to get the right version. Just like that Centro for European GSM. Oh wait....there isn't one. Yep, that's getting them into the hands of consumers for ya.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by ediamond View Post
    That's just it. People who are looking for thin pocket phones aren't going to buy a clunky Centro, they want something thin and sexy. If they are going to buy an entry level smartphone they want something with email, browser and pocketable. Pearl is the perfect entry to the smartphone world. So is the Blackjack or iPhone, or Sidekick. Or Helio. If they are power users, there are a whole host of WM phones with nice large responsive keyboards, video cameras and touch screens. Where does Palm fit it? they are not sexy enough to compete with thin, nor are they capable enough for power users. I'll be interested to see how Centro does in comparison to the Pearl.
    Wow.

    I get it now: you've never actually held or seen a Centro in real life, have you? You've just seen "tons of pictures" on your computer? Because if you have, you wouldn't say such silly things.

    A Pearl and Centro are practically the same size--at least to the point that they're both very pocketable, being virtually indistinguishable in volume.

    But lets see what the Centro does, out of the box:

    • 320x320 high res screen (205 ppi, even higher than an iPhone)
    • Touch Screen
    • Free Push email (Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail, AOL, Exchange)
    • IM (aim, live, yahoo)
    • YouTube Mobile/Streaming Video
    • pTunes Deluxe (internet radio streaming, mp3)
    • Full MS Office Support (DTG 10)
    • Threaded SMS
    • Web Browser
    • Google Maps


    I think that covers your "email, browser and pocketable", especially since I have never heard of anyone who owns a Centro saying they are "clunky" and can't fit in their pocket--I carry mine there with 0 issues. What does a Pearl do that's so amazing?

    • Costs more (both phone and plan)
    • No Touch screen
    • 240x260, much lower ppi
    • Can only do BB Push (?)
    • No built in IM
    • PIM is paltry
    • No built in YouTube support
    • SureType vs QWERTY?
    • Much fewer 3rd party programs & freeware


    What does a Blackjack do that's makes it such a better value (besides being achingly slow)? And a Sidekick--mentioned in the same breath as "thin and sexy" and "pocketable"? Good grief, nice selection. (BTW, Helio is not a phone, but a company, so I have no idea which one you are referring to).

    There is no doubt here: a Centro ($99) on a $30 SERO plan is hands down the best value today for a smartphone (even forgetting a Sero plan, Sprint's plans are still the best value--especially for unlimited 3g). The Centro kills a Pearl in functionality and price and is a heck of a lot cheaper than an iPhone. Why pay extra for a BIS plan--what are you getting in addition? So far, the Centro is the only one with a high resolution touch screen for that price category.

    And this term "power user" is rarely defined and quite relative. I use a multitude of devices (Moto Q, 6700, 700wx, 6800) and I find the Centro just as capable for functionality as those. A Blackberry is first and foremost a business users phone and is aimed towards such--it is not meant for, nor considered a consumer device and trying to explain BB, BIS, BES, etc. to someone who has never used a smartphone is not exactly a walk in the park. BBs are great for a Phone & Email, not much more. A Centro is great for a Phone and Email (much more supported) and way more features. WM devices are fantastic PDAs that can do just about everything under the sun, but honestly--as a phone, they still are quite clunky.

    The Centro is certainly 2 years too late, but Palm really nailed it for features, price and size. Better late than never.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 11/19/2007 at 02:34 PM.

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  10. TazUk's Avatar
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    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by ediamond View Post
    Most consumers don't care about comparing CDMA to CDMA. They pick a phone that does what they want and a plan they can live with. Most don't care what the underlying technology is.
    If any phone worked on any network then sure it wouldn't matter, but that's not the case. If you're a Sprint customer you can only use CDMA phones and only the ones Sprint choose to sell. Yes you can change carriers but most people change phones more often then carriers.
  11. #91  
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22032998/

    New 3G iPhone next year. Can't help Palm at all.
  12. #92  
    That's the thing with Apple...you can never feel great about what you have, because there's always a new, improved version the next year! For '08, faster internet (compared to the current iPhone's "dial-up speed")...who knows; probably a 20gig model or something as well. At least you can depend on Palm's good ol' OS for syncing with Outlook calendar, contacts, etc., checking email, IM, yadda yadda. Works for me.
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    #93  
    my BB Curve comes Monday via FedEx... i've never had one. Ill let ya guys know my opinion on this once I use it for an entire week. Wish me luck!
    Aaron M. Fisher
    CEO of Sonicfish Consulting
    www.SonicfishConsulting.com

    PDA/ Smartphones:
    Handspring Visor> Sony Clie SL10> Nokia N-Gage> Nokia 3300b> Treo 600> Treo 650> Treo 680> Nokia e71> Apple iPhone 3G> Palm Pre+
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by centro-haver View Post
    That's the thing with Apple...you can never feel great about what you have, because there's always a new, improved version the next year!
    Yeah, it really sucks to have an improved version of something which fixes bugs, improves stuff, etc.
  15. #95  
    I think he might have meant they sometimes have a habit of springing the "new improved" version on us quickly, after we've already spent the money on the current item.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I wouldn't get excited over an OS that doesn't exist.

    WM is the crap one. Palm's only worry is apple..not google.
    Hmmm..3 months later, it's looking like it sorta exists...it iwll be very interesting to see the Android vs. Palm offerings in Feb 2009.

    http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/11/g...orld-congress/
    Last edited by mikec; 02/11/2008 at 08:44 AM.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by Merovingian View Post
    Everyone is getting unnecessarily moist over something we don't have any concrete deets on yet, just the usual fluff about ''open source'' this and that.

    Let's not wear our undies in the dark.... just yet.

    Win Mobile is a very versatile O.S, no matter how 'clunky' some describe it, and i'll take it over the Palm O.S anyday right this moment in time.

    Open source is admirable as long as it's not a pain getting apps, apps with GUI's mind you, and not command-line whatevers...

    Anyway, let's get some more details before another 'Palm is dead' or 'Nail in Palm's Coffin' threads.
    Hmmm...looks like the hammer is rearing back on the nail...but as someone said previously, regardless if you buy into it, the competition is good for the market and consumers.

    http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/11/g...orld-congress/
    Last edited by mikec; 02/11/2008 at 08:45 AM.
  18. #98  
    I wasn't impressed with anything i saw from google in those photos. But I would tend to think Palm has different problems to worry about than the gphone.

    Palm is its own worst enemy.
  19. pump142's Avatar
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    #99  
    whats truely sad is that palm can release it most current technology as a low end cheap phone. this is great marketing but unless they are going to be a cheap low end phone maker (which is kind of where they are at now) they had better have a flagship that truely competes software and hardware wise.

    As far as the google phone, anyone ever stopped to think that maybe palm wanted in and were told NO?
    M505 -> M515 -> Kyo6035 -> Kyo 7135 -> Treo 600 ->Treo 650 -> Treo 700P -> Treo 700 WX -> Samsung Saga VZW
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I wasn't impressed with anything i saw from google in those photos. But I would tend to think Palm has different problems to worry about than the gphone.

    Palm is its own worst enemy.
    "Palm is its own worst enemy."

    Truer words were never spoken.
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