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  1.    #1  
    I'm talking about WM right now since the Linux POS is still 18 months away and we know that the current Palm OS can't support many advanced features, including wifi.

    Compared to the current WM powerhouse, the HTC Kaiser/Tilt/8925/TyTN II, what will Palm do?

    The Kaiser currently has:

    400mhz processor
    GPS
    wifi
    BT 2.0
    3MP camera
    128mb RAM/256mb ROM


    How will Palm respond?
  2. #2  
    I personally think this is silly just breaking down devices simply on hardware specs, as if that makes a great device. The ppc-6700 was a powerhouse when it came out: wifi, 1st ppc with evdo, wm5, full KB, etc.

    It also was a brick, had lots of issues, the d-pad was the worst, terrible battery life, etc.

    - You won't see GPS on any Sprint or Verizon WM device, so just rule that out as it's a carrier restriction.

    - Processor speed is relative. Faster processor to make up for sluggish WM also results in worse battery life, which is a helluva trade off for your phone. A 312mhz WM Treo feels as fast (if not faster) than a 416mhz ppc-6700 and much faster than a 400mhz Moto Q.

    - Wifi is nice, but becoming less necessary with EvDO and in <12 months will be surpassed by Wimax chips

    - MPs for cameras are also relative. I can flat out say that my 1.3mp camera on the Centro beats out the 2mp camera on the Mogul as far as clarity, contrast and just quality

    These numbers games mean nothing & only works on people who don't know better. It's about how well that technology is integrated and optimized for the OS. How the device feels in the hand, usability and if it makes a good phone.

    Can Palm do the integration part better than the competition and give a good user experience? We'll have to wait till it comes out to decide.

    I can say that the Centro for $99 has better hardware quality and integration than any of their 700 series, so I think they are headed in the right direction. (I'll have more to say on that in a WMExperts article).

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  3. #3  
    Doesn't Sprint' Blackberry 8830 have GPS. Specifically you can use third party apps that recognize the gps signal.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    Doesn't Sprint' Blackberry 8830 have GPS. Specifically you can use third party apps that recognize the gps signal.
    They sure do and they will remain the only devices that can until Sprint decides otherwise...(notice though how new BB's could have Wifi and GPS, but Sprint only goes with one: GPS. Wifi is limited to their WM handsets.)

    That's why I limited my statement to WM devices (and PalmOS too, but for other reasons as well). It's also why aGPS is not accessible in any WM device, why the Mogul doesn't have GPS, neither does the Touch and neither will anything until Sprint allows it.

    Same with Verizon. Hell, they tend to cripple BT on a lot of devices, so they're a bit worse.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  5. #5  
    Palm is buying in more of their WM devices from ODM's, so they could do nearly anything they wanted. Look at the new HP devices, which are pretty nice, and were lifted whole cloth from OKWAP. No reason Palm could not do a competitive device themselves like this.

    Surur
  6. #6  
    I am not sure I understand. I think the I930 has GPS as well with a Sirf Chip. Thats WM.
    Why would they refuse to carry devices with GPS just becauase its WM.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I personally think this is silly just breaking down devices simply on hardware specs, as if that makes a great device. The ppc-6700 was a powerhouse when it came out: wifi, 1st ppc with evdo, wm5, full KB, etc.

    It also was a brick, had lots of issues, the d-pad was the worst, terrible battery life, etc.

    - You won't see GPS on any Sprint or Verizon WM device, so just rule that out as it's a carrier restriction.

    - Processor speed is relative. Faster processor to make up for sluggish WM also results in worse battery life, which is a helluva trade off for your phone. A 312mhz WM Treo feels as fast (if not faster) than a 416mhz ppc-6700 and much faster than a 400mhz Moto Q.

    - Wifi is nice, but becoming less necessary with EvDO and in <12 months will be surpassed by Wimax chips

    - MPs for cameras are also relative. I can flat out say that my 1.3mp camera on the Centro beats out the 2mp camera on the Mogul as far as clarity, contrast and just quality

    These numbers games mean nothing & only works on people who don't know better. It's about how well that technology is integrated and optimized for the OS. How the device feels in the hand, usability and if it makes a good phone.

    Can Palm do the integration part better than the competition and give a good user experience? We'll have to wait till it comes out to decide.

    I can say that the Centro for $99 has better hardware quality and integration than any of their 700 series, so I think they are headed in the right direction. (I'll have more to say on that in a WMExperts article).
    I'm a Treo 750 fan, it's probably still my favorite device. However, with the Tilt, i can see some differences. For simple tasks where the processor isn't being strained, the Treo 750 does at least match that of the Tilt. However, for more processor intensive apps such as higher bitrate videos, Slingbox, etc., the Tilt does perform better.

    I'm on AT&T anyways, so as there are GPS devices on AT&T now (more and more are coming out for AT&T), there is no carrier excuse for Palm. I don't really care about Sprint or Verizon's restrictions. My friend's VX9800 has some sort of GPS integrated and he gets pretty accurate turn by turn directions, I'm not sure why a smartphone can't have the same capability.

    I don't really use wifi. However, sometimes when I travel I'm outside of a 3G signal whereas my hotel might have free wifi. Of course I'd probably use my laptop at that point, but sometimes I like to read up on some RSS feeds or news from bed, so that'd be nice to have. Definitely agree with you that wifi isn't as necessary these days. But my argument is about having features.

    The cameras really aren't that great on these things. I'm just going to stop talking about them anyways.

    I'd say that yes, the Palm WM devices are great. They do alot of things right, but the hardware isn't up to snuff. Once we get some thinner devices, integrated GPS, 320x320 screens, 128mb/256mb RAM/ROM, then I think that Palm will be back up on top of the smartphone world again.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    I am not sure I understand. I think the I930 has GPS as well with a Sirf Chip. Thats WM.
    Why would they refuse to carry devices with GPS just becauase its WM.
    This i930? No, it does not.

    As far as to why would they do this, you have to ask Sprint/Verizon. Some feel they never were able to get the aGPS to work directly with TeleNav (their pay service), probably related to a CDMA server-side issue.

    Read here for a discussion.

    And read Mossberg's take on it, which is in full agreement with my view: US carriers have way too much power over what devices we can use and what features they contain.

    "Free My Phone"

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    I'd say that yes, the Palm WM devices are great. They do alot of things right, but the hardware isn't up to snuff. Once we get some thinner devices, integrated GPS, 320x320 screens, 128mb/256mb RAM/ROM, then I think that Palm will be back up on top of the smartphone world again.
    No doubt Palm releases fewer devices, so their hardware has less variablity. They also gear towards traditional business users, where a Tilt is more suited for IT professionals.

    The 700-series is definitely long in the tooth with a 750 being a mild refresh. If the 800 specs (what little we know) are accurate: Rev A, Wifi, 320x320, it should be a solid device, but nothing extraordinary.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  9. #9  
    I got it from the Sprint Website and description of the phone. Here is the feature description. Note the use of the words "satellite signal" --I think-- implies its even beyond A-gps. It would imply (but Im not sure) that it's using a sirf chip as motorola often uses with its phones.

    ■ GPS Enabled: Lets you view your approximate location and when making 911 calls helps emergency personnel to locate you if your phone has adequate access to GPS satellite signal. Supports non-Java location-enhanced services such as Mobile LocatorTM.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    I got it from the Sprint Website and description of the phone. Here is the feature description. Note the use of the words "satellite signal" --I think-- implies its even beyond A-gps. It would imply (but Im not sure) that it's using a sirf chip as motorola often uses with its phones.

    ■ GPS Enabled: Lets you view your approximate location and when making 911 calls helps emergency personnel to locate you if your phone has adequate access to GPS satellite signal. Supports non-Java location-enhanced services such as Mobile LocatorTM.
    the 911 thing is on all devices, as it's just the e911 initiative.

    Mobile Locater is interesting ($15 a month), but note this: even the ppc-6600 did at one time support aGPS services. Sprint later had them disabled via a firmware update.

    The i930 is quite old though (2005) and was never a consumer device, so much as a business one (Nextel).

    But this is how it is: 6600, 6700, 6800, 700wx, Moto Q, HTC Touch and probably the 800w all do not have accessible aGPS/GPS, yet they all technically have the hardware for it.

    I think the pattern is clear.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  11. #11  
    I have held the view that all carriers, especially CDMA ones have held a retarded view towards controlling the user experience. i don't think it's WM specific though and I think within 6 months any subtle effort to keep GPS off devices will be reversed in course. Already Sprint's #s, and Verizons have been severely affected by lack of devices evne though imo they have better networks. With the advent of the 700Mhz auction, and 1-2 new wireless entrants the carriers will slowly loosen their grip on devices. they've already lost a lot of control compared to the early days. i.e. I think the statement that GPS should be taken off the table probably is a bit on the extreme side.

    Oh and 911 is just a-GPS. It's an FCC regulation and has been for some time. That's not the same as satellite based GPS. totally different critter. And their use of the world satellite implies that although again Im not sure. the Sirf chip has been out forver though and moto likes to use that on it's devices which is why I guessed that. Again a WM device.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    This i930? No, it does not.

    As far as to why would they do this, you have to ask Sprint/Verizon. Some feel they never were able to get the aGPS to work directly with TeleNav (their pay service), probably related to a CDMA server-side issue.

    Read here for a discussion.

    And read Mossberg's take on it, which is in full agreement with my view: US carriers have way too much power over what devices we can use and what features they contain.

    "Free My Phone"


    No doubt Palm releases fewer devices, so their hardware has less variablity. They also gear towards traditional business users, where a Tilt is more suited for IT professionals.

    The 700-series is definitely long in the tooth with a 750 being a mild refresh. If the 800 specs (what little we know) are accurate: Rev A, Wifi, 320x320, it should be a solid device, but nothing extraordinary.
    In response to mossberg's article, that would mean that phones would no longer be carrier-subsidized. Meaning that we would have devices running 2-3x more expensive than what they cost now. A tilt can be had for what, $300 from AT&T with rebates and a 2 year contract whereas the no-contract price is $550-600? And if you add in 3rd party retailers like Buy.com or Amazon, then that means that the difference would be even more. Even "normal" cell phones would cost a hundred or two more than what people pay for them. Now tell me, would the average consumer prefer to pay hundreds more for a cell phone, or concede a few features to save that same amount of money?
  13. #13  
    I actually agree with Mossberg and Molester on this issue.

    Carrier subsidies used to be a lot more significant 5 years ago. Now the scale economies of device production just don't make them that meaningful. Also, it's not like they are doing it for free, carriers like Verizon want to get a % of the income for everything you do on the mobile web while you are on their network. As people use their devices for more and more that revenue streat will grow even larger. Add in mobile advertsing which they want a piece of also. That 150 subsidiy is nothing compared to the revenue stream they get by getting a piece of everything ya do.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    I actually agree with Mossberg and Molester on this issue.
    Dude....

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    In response to mossberg's article, that would mean that phones would no longer be carrier-subsidized. Meaning that we would have devices running 2-3x more expensive than what they cost now. A tilt can be had for what, $300 from AT&T with rebates and a 2 year contract whereas the no-contract price is $550-600? And if you add in 3rd party retailers like Buy.com or Amazon, then that means that the difference would be even more. Even "normal" cell phones would cost a hundred or two more than what people pay for them. Now tell me, would the average consumer prefer to pay hundreds more for a cell phone, or concede a few features to save that same amount of money?
    Consumers pay for the subsidies through their monthly charges. Without subsidies, those monthly charges presumably would be lower.
  16. #16  
    In Europe carrier interference are less and subsidies are higher. Best of both worlds.

    Surur
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Consumers pay for the subsidies through their monthly charges. Without subsidies, those monthly charges presumably would be lower.
    I think it's more of a factor of a contract term rather than monthly service charges. It takes time to recoup that cost of subsidizing your phone. Without a subsidy, contracts shouldn't be an issue anymore.
  18. #18  
    yes that blackberry on sprint does have working gps BUT you havr to subscribe to their Telenav service. Another "restriction" that the carriers make so they can keep the control & make the money.
  19. #19  
    Palm's response in the next few months will likely be a WM Treo. That is sad for us Palm OS fans.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by bulls96 View Post
    Palm's response in the next few months will likely be a WM Treo. That is sad for us Palm OS fans.
    I wouldnt say it is sad. After all, Palm probably wouldnt exist anymore if it werent for we WM users
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