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  1. #21  
    Aside from a few differences, all Win Mobile devices are pretty much the same. That's why I don't understand why some get so excited over the latest Win Mobile device when it is just a crappy as the last one. Give me something new based on Linux and then I'll get excited.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by treoneo View Post
    yes that blackberry on sprint does have working gps BUT you havr to subscribe to their Telenav service. Another "restriction" that the carriers make so they can keep the control & make the money.
    Nope, wrong, not even close. You can use BB maps and Google maps on the Sprint 8830. Both take advantage of the built in GPS and both are free. You're thinking of Verizon.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
    Aside from a few differences, all Win Mobile devices are pretty much the same. That's why I don't understand why some get so excited over the latest Win Mobile device when it is just a crappy as the last one. Give me something new based on Linux and then I'll get excited.
    Let's look at the Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Treo 680, and Treo 755p. Hmm, those devices are really different! The most significant change was the upgrade to a 320x320 screen and EVDO on the 700p. Wow. Blackberrys have come a longer way, but they're still really just email machines. Stable yes, but not as tweakable or powerful as POS, Symbian, or WM.

    On windows mobile you you have devices with completely different form factors (look at the HTC sliders, the Touch, the Treo 750, the Universal, etc.etc), top currently available technology (wifi, BT 2.0, GPS, 3G including HSDPA and HSUPA), multiple vendors, etc. What's crappy is the lack of innovation made by Palm these days. Symbian devices are ok, but they don't have much exposure. You're riding on what, the Linux POS that no one has ever seen because *gasp* it doesn't exist? If the LPOS is better I'll switch over. But not if Palm continues to exclude GPS, BT2.0, and bulky form factors. Windows Mobile blows away the Palm OS, Symbian and even Blackberry in terms of customization, power, and variety of devices available on the market.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
    Aside from a few differences, all Win Mobile devices are pretty much the same. That's why I don't understand why some get so excited over the latest Win Mobile device when it is just a crappy as the last one. Give me something new based on Linux and then I'll get excited.
    Not necessarily true...the features of the phone are what make people buy it. And if it all works, then it's that much better.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    - You won't see GPS on any Sprint or Verizon WM device, so just rule that out as it's a carrier restriction.
    That is the only spec on the 800 that I don't know for sure. As of last week, the powers to be had yet to decide whether to go aGPS or GPS on the 800. My contacts feel was not aGPS but rather "real" GPS. I wont know until probably next year as time gets closer to the launch of the 800. I do know that there will be no WiMax on the 800. However, I've heard of a Nokia device that will have WiMax but I can't confirm or deny that existence.
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  6. #26  
    Ugh. There is no carrier restriciton on GPS for Sprint. The Blackberry 8830 has a satellite based chip. No A-GPS. Actual GPS. Sprint and VZ do bad enough blocking applications without us having to make stuff up.

    I do hope the 800 has unhindered sat based gps, and won't buy it if it doesn't have it.

    That said, it's pretty shocking that Palm is taking thsi long to get out the 800. I wish I was one of their private equity investors just so I could yell at the CEO. Talk about a lack of innovation.
    I hope the predicitons that it will be a Q1/Q2 launch as opposed to a late launch this year. I have no way of knowing though and no inside scoop.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by jrinehart View Post
    That is the only spec on the 800 that I don't know for sure. As of last week, the powers to be had yet to decide whether to go aGPS or GPS on the 800. My contacts feel was not aGPS but rather "real" GPS. I wont know until probably next year as time gets closer to the launch of the 800. I do know that there will be no WiMax on the 800. However, I've heard of a Nokia device that will have WiMax but I can't confirm or deny that existence.
    Most of the confusion lies in the fact that these devices often can have "full" GPS in them, but are often crippled. I'd be surprised if Sprint changes their tune, but I'm willing to suspend belief till we get final confirmation, which will be when we literally have it (the 6800 was reported by many, even at Sprint, to have full GPS before it came out).

    WiMax doesn't surprise me. The more I think about it, I'm not sure that these devices can handle or make use of that much bandwidth. Sure, for sending someone a 200mb file it would be amazing, but checking email, surfing the web or uploading some photos, the gain will be minimal. The bottleneck in such a system would be the mobile OS, which might not be able to really make use of that much data coming in. Plus, Sprint seems to be positioning the service as something separate from PowerVision e.g. more like their data card for laptops, so I'm not confident we'll see "phones" with it necessarily.

    The Nokia rumor has be around for awhile and was reported by Engadget some months ago, so no surprise there (also notice it's not a phone).

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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    Ugh. There is no carrier restriciton on GPS for Sprint. The Blackberry 8830 has a satellite based chip. No A-GPS. Actual GPS. Sprint and VZ do bad enough blocking applications without us having to make stuff up.
    Then why are there no WM or POS devices with GPS or active aGPS in them?

    The BB is the only device on Sprint in the smartphone category with GPS on it just like the 6700/6800 is the only one with Wifi. Because of that, you'll never see a BB with GPS and Wifi on Sprint, even though they are available.

    Read this thread
    and tell me Sprint doesn't actively block GPS on WM devices...

    Proof is in the pudding: HTC can and does make WM devices with standalone or active aGPS in them, but there are none on Sprint and Verizon. The chipsets in all WM CDMA devices all contain aGPS on them that can be used but they are not accessible (no APIs).

    There is no mystery here.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 11/01/2007 at 01:33 PM.

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  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    The BB is the only device on Sprint in the smartphone category with GPS on it just like the 6700/6800 is the only one with Wifi. Because of that, you'll never see a BB with GPS and Wifi on Sprint, even though they are available.
    You don't see a BB with both GPS and Wifi on them because RIM doesn't make them, for any carrier. They have one or the other, not both. No sinister plot here, sorry. Verizon does block GPS on their BBs, but Sprint does not.
  10. #30  
    On the link. If HTC really said that---I would be very surprised. That would be a violation of a standard NDA they signed with sprint though...somebody is getting sued. I do think that Sprint and Verizon try to stop features when they can, but I think both companies are pretty much out of negotiating room. They are literally dying because of lack of innovation and new devices. especially sprint.

    It's not that I don't think US carriers are bad, I just don;t think it's as dramatic and nefarious as you do. In the past have they tried to stifle features..yes but only when they could get away with it. The power of device makers rises and falls. Right now, I think Sprint has zero leverage. Beggers can't be choosers. also I believe as discusses Mororola has a WM/ aGPS device on there. People sneak them in there. More will get through in the next year. Eventually ALL will have stuff like GPS.

    I'll bet within 24 months more than half of all sprint phones will have GPS.


    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Then why are there no WM or POS devices with GPS or active aGPS in them?

    The BB is the only device on Sprint in the smartphone category with GPS on it just like the 6700/6800 is the only one with Wifi. Because of that, you'll never see a BB with GPS and Wifi on Sprint, even though they are available.

    Read this thread
    and tell me Sprint doesn't actively block GPS on WM devices...

    Proof is in the pudding: HTC can and does make WM devices with standalone or active aGPS in them, but there are none on Sprint and Verizon. The chipsets in all WM CDMA devices all contain aGPS on them that can be used but they are not accessible (no APIs).

    There is no mystery here.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    On the link. If HTC really said that---I would be very surprised. That would be a violation of a standard NDA they signed with sprint though...somebody is getting sued. I do think that Sprint and Verizon try to stop features when they can, but I think both companies are pretty much out of negotiating room. They are literally dying because of lack of innovation and new devices. especially sprint.

    It's not that I don't think US carriers are bad, I just don;t think it's as dramatic and nefarious as you do. In the past have they tried to stifle features..yes but only when they could get away with it. The power of device makers rises and falls. Right now, I think Sprint has zero leverage. Beggers can't be choosers. also I believe as discusses Mororola has a WM/ aGPS device on there. People sneak them in there. More will get through in the next year. Eventually ALL will have stuff like GPS.
    I'll bet within 24 months more than half of all sprint phones will have GPS.
    Why are you people trying to lump Sprint in with Verizon. Sprint does not cripple phone features, Verizon does. Please get that straight. I tired of all these comments from clueless people.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
    Why are you people trying to lump Sprint in with Verizon. Sprint does not cripple phone features, Verizon does. Please get that straight. I tired of all these comments from clueless people.
    According to Malesta Sprint does....posted some letter from HTC accusing Sprint of exactly that. Read it. I think it's very possibly a fake but Malesta keeps bring it up. Claims its true.

    Oh and be sure not to lump me into any categories I don't belong.
    Last edited by gadgetfreaky; 11/01/2007 at 08:36 PM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
    You don't see a BB with both GPS and Wifi on them because RIM doesn't make them, for any carrier. They have one or the other, not both. No sinister plot here, sorry. Verizon does block GPS on their BBs, but Sprint does not.
    The 8820 on AT&T doesn't have Wifi and GPS?

    http://www.boygeniusreport.com/wp-co...ewRIM/8820.jpg

    Look, this isn't mysterious or a conspiracy: all WM devices have aGPS in them, but there are no Location Based Services on Sprint or Verizon for WM phones. Why not?

    As far as what Sprint does in the future, who knows. Maybe they will embrace wifi and GPS devices, or maybe they'll continue to be naive. But had they really wanted these devices, they would have ordered them.

    Don't tell me HTC can't make a CDMA device with GPS and Wifi. This is not about "lack of innovation" but about what the carriers control. The lack of selection and options on smartphones is evidence for this.

    Edit:
    While we're at it, anyone care to explain why Sprint WM devices do not have MMS capabilities? Not one of them. Yet the exact same devices on Verizon can and do. I suppose that is not by carrier-request either? (Going further, extracting the Verizon MMS program and putting it on Sprint's WM devices works perfectly--so it's not that Sprint's system cannot handle it)

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    According to Malesta Sprint does....posted some letter from HTC accusing Sprint of exactly that. Read it. I think it's very possibly a fake but Malesta keeps bring it up. Claims its true.

    Oh and be sure not to lump me into any categories I don't belong.
    Ok, say it's fake for the sake of argument.

    Now explain why aGPS does not work on the 6700, 6800, Moto Q, 700wx, HTC Touch...

    I'll wait patiently.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 11/01/2007 at 08:54 PM.

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  14. #34  
    Wifi/GPS are great to have but honestly when I had my 6700 and when I tried the mogul for a bit I rarely ever used wifi that much. But I used the GPS quite a bit when I had the 8830 just because it was extremely convenient. Sprint's pretty good at not locking their phones down so much (unlike Verizon) but right now hands down AT&T is killing the competition with their lineup (tilt, q9, bb8820, blackjack 2 all of which have gps in them).

    I wouldn't put it past Sprint/Palm wanting to include a surf star III in the 800 but i'm definitely not going to hold my breath. Heck I would even be happy with aGPS in the 800 lol. But maybe with Sprint's recent 3rd quarter performance and Forsee's departure maybe they will start offering more in their handsets.

    http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2007/...ofits-plummet/
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I stand corrected.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    The 8820 on AT&T doesn't have Wifi and GPS?

    http://www.boygeniusreport.com/wp-co...ewRIM/8820.jpg

    Look, this isn't mysterious or a conspiracy: all WM devices have aGPS in them, but there are no Location Based Services on Sprint or Verizon for WM phones. Why not?

    As far as what Sprint does in the future, who knows. Maybe they will embrace wifi and GPS devices, or maybe they'll continue to be naive. But had they really wanted these devices, they would have ordered them.

    Don't tell me HTC can't make a CDMA device with GPS and Wifi. This is not about "lack of innovation" but about what the carriers control. The lack of selection and options on smartphones is evidence for this.

    Edit:
    While we're at it, anyone care to explain why Sprint WM devices do not have MMS capabilities? Not one of them. Yet the exact same devices on Verizon can and do. I suppose that is not by carrier-request either? (Going further, extracting the Verizon MMS program and putting it on Sprint's WM devices works perfectly--so it's not that Sprint's system cannot handle it)


    Ok, say it's fake for the sake of argument.

    Now explain why aGPS does not work on the 6700, 6800, Moto Q, 700wx, HTC Touch...

    I'll wait patiently.
    I actually had the 6700. There was no Sirf GPS chip in there. If you can show me those devices have a Sirf or other satellite based gps chip and they have been actively disabled because they have WM on them or something else, then I think you have got a strong argument. As it stands now, I think I will wait patiently for you to make one.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by untouchablez View Post
    Wifi/GPS are great to have but honestly when I had my 6700 and when I tried the mogul for a bit I rarely ever used wifi that much. But I used the GPS quite a bit when I had the 8830 just because it was extremely convenient. Sprint's pretty good at not locking their phones down so much (unlike Verizon) but right now hands down AT&T is killing the competition with their lineup (tilt, q9, bb8820, blackjack 2 all of which have gps in them).

    I wouldn't put it past Sprint/Palm wanting to include a surf star III in the 800 but i'm definitely not going to hold my breath. Heck I would even be happy with aGPS in the 800 lol. But maybe with Sprint's recent 3rd quarter performance and Forsee's departure maybe they will start offering more in their handsets.

    http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2007/...ofits-plummet/
    I agree actually. As long as you have a good data network, then all I care about is GPS.

    Were you able to use 8830 with google maps without paying the 15 a month extra for gps? Say using google maps?
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    I actually had the 6700. There was no Sirf GPS chip in there. If you can show me those devices have a Sirf or other satellite based gps chip and they have been actively disabled because they have WM on them or something else, then I think you have got a strong argument. As it stands now, I think I will wait patiently for you to make one.
    Did I ever say it had a Sirf chip?

    It has aGPS on the chipset, which is better than standalone GPS since it uses cell stations for quicker signal acquisition.

    On devices like the Moto Razr, you can use GMaps (not google maps) without paying a dime--why? Because the Razr has accessible aGPS.

    On all WM devices on Sprint, this is not the case since there are no APIs to access the GPS info on the chip.

    So that's your evidence: regular, cheap, flip Sprint phones can use 3rd party apps for LBS but WM devices, even though they have aGPS on the chipsets (aka GPSOne), cannot.

    WM devices have GPSOne--not usable.
    Cheap Sprint flip phones have GPSOne--is usable.

    Haven't you ever wondered why only WM and POS devices require an "external GPS" unit for TeleNav?

    Even though the 6700/6800 can pull bits of GPS data (just not constant)?
    http://stuff.michiganbroadband.com/x...s/DSCF0201.jpg
    http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/cac9478/GPS.jpg

    So blame it on them disabling on purpose OR that Sprint can't figure it out on WM devices (after all these years). I'm open to either of those explanations.

    ps Related, you can also explain why there is no MMS on Sprint WM devices even though it works.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 11/02/2007 at 06:11 PM.

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  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    Were you able to use 8830 with google maps without paying the 15 a month extra for gps? Say using google maps?
    Yep google maps works like a charm on the 8830 straight out of the box no extra fees are necessary except the bb data plan. I just installed it ota & I was good to go.
  20. #40  
    aGPS is just triangulation (I think) If that's what you mean, that's been around forever. Every phone has that. It's an fcc mandate. It's definintely not better than having satellite navigation. Ideally ya have both.

    Whether its usable for normal applications, that depends and is more complicated.

    Look, you are trying to make some argument about WM, and you have that fake letter from HTC (which while I am not 100% sure is fake--looks pretty fake). Everybody agrees that all the carriers needs to have open use of GPS, carriers that don't make me angry too. But let's not make up all this nefarious stuff and conspiracy theories especially about WM which I don't think is like some big target of like a right wing conspiracy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Did I ever say it had a Sirf chip?

    It has aGPS on the chipset, which is better than standalone GPS since it uses cell stations for quicker signal acquisition.

    On devices like the Moto Razr, you can use GMaps (not google maps) without paying a dime--why? Because the Razr has accessible aGPS.

    On all WM devices on Sprint, this is not the case since there are no APIs to access the GPS info on the chip.

    So that's your evidence: regular, cheap, flip Sprint phones can use 3rd party apps for LBS but WM devices, even though they have aGPS on the chipsets (aka GPSOne), cannot.

    WM devices have GPSOne--not usable.
    Cheap Sprint flip phones have GPSOne--is usable.

    Haven't you ever wondered why only WM and POS devices require an "external GPS" unit for TeleNav?

    Even though the 6700/6800 can pull bits of GPS data (just not constant)?
    http://stuff.michiganbroadband.com/x...s/DSCF0201.jpg
    http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/cac9478/GPS.jpg

    So blame it on them disabling on purpose OR that Sprint can't figure it out on WM devices (after all these years). I'm open to either of those explanations.

    ps Related, you can also explain why there is no MMS on Sprint WM devices even though it works.
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