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  1.    #1  
    This was delivered from On Demand in the Technology Section. (One Bad Hit After Another) Article to follow a couple of comments. Palm only retained it's 3% share of the Handheld Market while RIM jumped from 3% to 5.7%. Palm profits plunged 43% while RIM saw income surge by 73%. What's the deal Palm? We want phones now; take a look at the article by Ed Hardy at www.Brighthand.com. This company is seeing bad press almost everyday and nothing seems to happen. Say they release their Linux Treo by a Miracle in 6 months, their competitors will surge ahead in technology too. Unless Palm acts fast, we may not have Palm devices at this rate. They do not give us a time frame for their road map. Check out this article! It spells most things out!
    Subject: Handmark News: Palm Struggles to Shine Again


    Palm Struggles to Shine Again
    Sep 20, 2007 4:46 PM EST
    SUNNYVALE, Calif. - Palm Inc.'s death knell has been rung over and over - on Wall Street, in headlines, and by a growing number of discontented fans.

    Whether on death watch or not, the smart phone pioneer is struggling. Palm has been pummeled by deep-pocketed rivals and maimed by missteps, and it remains shackled to an aging operating system.

    The Palm OS has fallen behind others in user-friendly features, and the company's vital signs are taking a hit. Palm said Wednesday it expects to see a loss of 1 cent per share or break even for its fiscal quarter ending Aug. 31.

    If the company is to succeed even as a small player in the fast-growing industry, analysts say it will have to act deftly.

    "They can hang on for a while longer," Gartner Inc. vice president and analyst Ken Dulaney said. "But they really can't afford many more mistakes."

    High profit margins and the growing popularity of phones that are Swiss Army knives of data, voice and Web capabilities have drawn intensifying interest from rivals ranging from phone giants like Nokia Corp. and Samsung Electronics Co., to tech titans like Apple Inc. and Hewlett-Packard Co.

    As competitors trotted out sleek new smart phones over the past year, Palm veered little from the once-beloved but now-bulky design of the Treo 600, which debuted in 2003. Others adopted software platforms aimed at today's multimedia multitasking culture, but Palm has been relying mainly on an operating system that has seen only minor revisions over five years.

    Officials at the Sunnyvale-based company acknowledge the Palm OS's underlying architecture isn't agile enough. The software, which languished amid ownership switches first from Palm to a spinoff and now to Access Co. Ltd., can't handle voice and data functions simultaneously, thus leaving some users wondering why their Treos, for instance, can't toggle seamlessly between a phone call and video playback.

    Palm is building a new operating system based on Linux, but it's a huge undertaking and nobody knows yet how it will stack up. In fact, the company recently canceled its much maligned Foleo, a laptop-like gadget, to shift resources to the next-generation platform.

    "They have a lot of work to catch up from being behind for 18 months," Dulaney said.

    Meanwhile, Palm is banking on continued sales growth of its Microsoft Corp. Windows-based models, which debuted in 2006. But analysts say that operating system also has shortcomings, and Palm must differentiate its products from other smart phones using it.

    Palm's profits plunged 43 percent to $15.4 million in its fiscal fourth quarter, which ended June 1, even though it posted record Treo sales of $344.2 million. In comparison, longtime rival Research in Motion Ltd., maker of the BlackBerry, saw income surge 73 percent to $223.2 million for the same period.

    Unless Palm delivers more compelling products and the brand regains its cachet, analysts predict the company will continue to get squeezed. The worldwide smart phone market grew 23 percent in the first quarter, but Palm's slice stayed at about 3 percent while RIM's increased from 3 percent to 5.7 percent, and Nokia's grew from 48 percent to 52.6 percent, according to Gartner.

    "They had one great product - the Treo - and they've never been able to follow it up," said Jeff Embersits, analyst at Shareholder Value Management.

    Palm first made its mark a decade ago in personal digital assistants, or handheld computers, before turning its focus to smart phones. But while Palm sifted through management changes, rivals like RIM only grew stronger and locked a foothold on the corporate market.

    Competitors armed with large marketing budgets and manufacturing efficiencies then swarmed in, targeting consumer segments where Palm had a loyal following.

    Motorola Inc. and Nokia were each rumored in the first half of this year to be interested in buying Palm.

    "It has gotten a lot more competitive in the last 12 months, and we have to redouble our efforts," Brodie Keast, Palm's senior vice president of marketing, acknowledged.

    In June, the company laid off about 8 percent of its workforce.

    British cellular operator Vodafone Group PLC, Microsoft and Palm jointly spent $30 million this year marketing Treos in Europe. But sales so far have fallen short of Palm's expectations, and Lehman Brothers analyst Tim Long predicts Palm will lag farther behind rivals in Europe as well as at home.

    Adding salt to Palm's wounds, Apple proclaimed last week it sold a million iPhones in its first 74 days in the smart phone market. Palm has yet to sell that many Treos in a quarter.

    Seeking "a change in dynamics," the company signed a deal in June to sell a 25 percent stake to private equity firm Elevation Partners. An impetus, Palm President and CEO Ed Colligan said, was to get Jon Rubinstein, the former head of Apple's iPod division, to join Palm's ranks.

    After the transaction closes, Rubinstein will become Palm's executive chair, and his associates at Elevation - former Apple chief financial officer Fred Anderson and veteran Silicon Valley investor Roger McNamee - will become board members.

    It may take 18 months before the public sees results from the management changes, Colligan estimated. That's partly because Palm's product roadmap was set before the deal.

    But, "we haven't been sitting on our hands," Colligan said, adding that "it's still early in the market."

    Palm unveiled last week in Europe a slimmer Treo 500v - its first significant hardware revamp in five years.

    A similarly thinner model dubbed the Centro is also expected to launch soon in the United States. Long echoed other observers in calling it an "evolutionary improvement ... rather than a major step forward."

    "Palm really would have to knock it out of the park to succeed," said Hugues De La Vergne, analyst at Gartner.



    By MAY WONG AP Technology Writer
    Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
    Last edited by Gas Man; 09/21/2007 at 12:33 AM. Reason: took out email address
  2. #2  
    morningstar1844, you started two negative threads on Palm in the last two days. I'd argue that Palm doesn't need to fear RIM. Palm needs to be afraid of posters who seem very bent on bringing up bad news repeatedly.

    I'd ask you to give them a chance, but you seem to have an agenda. Maybe just step back and take a look at your venom.
    My name is Moore,
    Roger Moore
  3. #3  
    Give them a chance, Roger? What exactly have we been doing for the past 4 years?

    These threads aren't venom. They are doses of reality. Palm needs them, and so do others who think palm's glacial rate of progress is fine and dandy.

    What sort of agenda would these posts point to other than to attempt to state the facts of the matter at palm as opposed to CONTINUE turning a blind eye to them?

    I guess for some folks its the head in the sand approach. Some would just rather not hear about it. Its ok to rant in countless threads about how much the iphone sucks (which, incidentally, is beating the pants off the treo) but god forbid one criticizes the exasperating incompetence and hibernation at palm too much. That would show some distasteful, venomous, underlying agenda.

    Step back indeed, Roger.
  4. ~Q~
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by RogerMoore View Post
    morningstar1844, you started two negative threads on Palm in the last two days. I'd argue that Palm doesn't need to fear RIM. Palm needs to be afraid of posters who seem very bent on bringing up bad news repeatedly.

    I'd ask you to give them a chance, but you seem to have an agenda. Maybe just step back and take a look at your venom.
    Negative threads aren't necessarily a bad thing, so long as it's done in a productive fashion. I believe Morningstar's posts are productive and in good taste. They stimulate discussion, which is why we are all here; No?
    Criterion 300>CMT>Huskey Hunter>Handspring Visor>Juniper Allegro>Palm Tungsten>TDS Recon>Treo 650>Treo 700P>Treo 755P>Blackberry Pearl

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  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by RogerMoore View Post
    morningstar1844, you started two negative threads on Palm in the last two days. I'd argue that Palm doesn't need to fear RIM. Palm needs to be afraid of posters who seem very bent on bringing up bad news repeatedly.
    Have you ever heard the saying don't kill the messenger?

    My feeling has always been this, in 2003, Palm was so far ahead of everyone else with the 600 that it didn't have anywhere else it could go. But how many other people do you see consistently buy the same phone over and over again? That is, unless it's a cheapie. The Blackberry had nowhere to go but up, now it seems like they've caught up and might be passing Palm. Heck, none of us even know how we'd like a newer Palm that had a completely different operating system.
    Kyocera 6035 > Kyocera 7135 > Treo 600 > Treo 650. All Verizon. Sprint Treo 755p, HTC Mogul & Centro
    Unlocked Treo 680 for trips outside Sprint's areas
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by RogerMoore View Post
    morningstar1844, you started two negative threads on Palm in the last two days. I'd argue that Palm doesn't need to fear RIM. Palm needs to be afraid of posters who seem very bent on bringing up bad news repeatedly.

    I'd ask you to give them a chance, but you seem to have an agenda. Maybe just step back and take a look at your venom.
    Hi Roger,

    Just a few statements; I started out with the Palm Professional (gift from my wife) then went on to buy the extra memory card (forgot the provider). Loved my Pda, Got the Palm V (what a nice unit), went on to the Palm 505, then the 515 I believe. Left for the HP 1910 PPC (Win software was good on that unit) Then bought and return the 600 Treo two times; 3rd purchased fell in love with the Treo. bought the Treo 650 10 months or so later. Waited two years to get the 700p. The lag is what drove me crazy. I was Palm's best supporter, but Roger, you and I know that Palm has made many missteps You know it was only after 7-8 months and hard work by Bob Hanson and others that Steve Sinclair announced that they would release an update for the 700p and that the lag was inherent to the "hardware" design of the phone. Then Palm releases an update for the 680 before the 700p. My purpose in the posts is that I hope that Palm will respond and deliver some information and deliver the phone that we all want and desire (go to work 24/7 on hardware design and software design user interface). I am only reposting on what I see in articles and this one was from "On Demand" Pocket Express" in their tech news. I want Palm to lay their cards on the table. Engadget delivered the message and so have others. Ed Hardy lays out a roadmap that would allow Palm to proceed and concentrate on Hardware design.
    Last edited by Gas Man; 09/21/2007 at 12:25 AM.
  7. #7  
    Don't forget that Handspring & NOT Palm hatched the Treo. When Palm took over is when the Treo's downward spiral began.
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    #8  
    Yeah, handspring designed the first Treo, and what has Palm done since then? If Treo fails, the entire company will fall apart. If they want another successful product, buy RIM - a touch screen Blackberry, how nice is that. just keep dreaming....
    Get the latest cell phone news and deals at www.icellphonedeals.com.
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  9. ktm97's Avatar
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    #9  
    I think Palm should fear Palm, not the competition.
  10. #10  
    What is "negative" about posting a news article written by someone else?
  11. #11  
    Well after talking to their Palm 3rd level guy and his management team. Supposedly they peruse these boards on occasion. I totally mentioned it in my BBB Complaint to them which was brought to their attention. Negative posting isn't all that bad. IF they read it.. IT definitely could help them wake up on certain aspects of whats going on in the Treo PalmOS world. These days Palm makes me feel like im that old man drinking coffee while im watching my other counterparts just fly right by me on the freeway.
    Greatest Treo Call Bug EVER!
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    #12  
    It is unfortunately like watching a trainwreck. I have bought almost every Palm device and even got my wife hooked on them. But I admit we are just treading water now until Apple goes 3G and 16GB.....(unless you can get something out there first Palm....)
  13. waldo15's Avatar
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    #13  
    There's nothing negative on this post. It is a well-worded position from an Analyst that is meant for carefull consideration not by fanboys, but by traders and those who are investing in Palm or are planning to. Unfortunately reality is in the cold hard numbers and Palm DOES NOT HAVE POSITIVE news to report. As simple as that. We the fanboys would love to see it otherwise but that is wishfull thinking at this point. And yes, I am putting myself in the fanboy club although I am a hair close to dump my membership bag since I have had nothing but trouble with the ill-fated crapware known as 700p.

    Releasing a new phone may bring some shinning news, and for that matter I'd point you to today's cover story on Talking Treo... they cover the 500v aplenty. But that doesn't take away that the company is having struggles. I'll give you the point though, the post should stimulate conversation and intelligent discussion among us, let us avoid the "ZOMG PALM is TEH SUCKA" type of comments. We more than once have voiced out opinions on how we fel Palm should address the consumers and the market and that is by all means more than positive for any company.
    Ode to the Treo Pro: you had to look so good, you had to be HTC in disguise...
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by RogerMoore View Post
    morningstar1844, you started two negative threads on Palm in the last two days. I'd argue that Palm doesn't need to fear RIM. Palm needs to be afraid of posters who seem very bent on bringing up bad news repeatedly.

    I'd ask you to give them a chance, but you seem to have an agenda. Maybe just step back and take a look at your venom.
    I'd argue that Palm's worst enemies are its own executives followed by RIM and then Microsoft.

    I have used Palm handhelds since the Palm V and RIM devices since the 950 (no phone, web or even PIM software on the first one I had). Palm's growing reputation for flakiness and RIM's solid software and enterprise email tilt the corporate market heavily in RIM's favor. Recent hardware designs have only made Blackberries even more popular and given them a consumer market.

    The best reason to stick with a Treo is an existing library of PalmOS applications, otherwise they are really not worth the trouble.
    Last edited by ADGrant; 09/21/2007 at 03:27 PM.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I'd argue that Palm's worst enemies are its own executives followed by RIM and then Microsoft.

    I have used Palm handhelds since the Palm V and RIM devices since the 950 (no phone, web or even PIM software on the first one I had). Palm's growing reputation for flakiness and RIM's solid software and enterprise email tilt the corporate market heavily in RIM's favor. Recent hardware designs have only made Blackberries even more popular and given them a consumer market.

    The best reason to stick with a Treo is an existing library of PalmOS applications, otherwise they are really not worth the trouble.

    I have a ton (well almost). They include Treo Weather, Pockten Quicken, OliveTree, Lardian Bible Software, Drug databases and Med Dictionaries, Resco Backup, Explorer and a host of programs besides more than a few games. Style Tap would be good for RIM and maybe the new Treo 800W would be nice if it were thinner and has wifi.

    I would use Style Tap with the new 800W (if it is thinner)
    Last edited by Gas Man; 09/24/2007 at 11:10 AM.

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