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  1. #21  
    good specs but palm will more likely delay it by 6 months, cancel it and hint at releasing next gen 2, then finally releasing it overpriced and underspec.
  2. #22  
    Place the HP IPaq 914 specs inside a Treo 750 body and stretch the screen.

    Regards
    graylion
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    #23  
    Make it waterproof to 10 meters and use plastic flexible displays. Make it double sided with a keyboard and regular resolution on one side and at least 640X480 resolution on the other side.
  4. #24  
    I'm going to agree with the poster who felt it wasn't such a bad idea to release two types of Treos for users of different needs but I would take issue with his specs. Here's mine:

    Type 1.
    - Qwerty keyboard - the current one is just fine
    - No touchscreen. I think the new 500 is right on that score - if the interface is redesigned, you shouldn't need it - I only use the stylus to navigate when the five-way dial lets me down because the menu system was designed for a stylus. A new interface could address that. What else do you use it for - sketching?
    - Wi-fi - are you listening Palm? Wifi! My Zire 72 could use a wifi card and it was very useful. Everyone understands that with present battery technology, we're going to take a hit for using it but who cares if it makes us more productive? We'll find a charger. Wouldn't it be great to run Skype?
    - Ringer switch - as a teacher, I have to put up with phones going off in my class all the time not to mention movies, plays, etc.. Do you really think I'm going to buy a smartphone that makes me hunt through a menu system to silence my device?
    - As flat a form factor as you can possibly manage - my Treo 680 looks pretty bloated.
    - No lag. It's embarrassing that old palm devices are faster. The lag between the phone apps is a disgrace.


    Type 2.
    I know I'll look pretty old school for this but in case the Palm folks actually read these posts, I think they should know there are still people like me out there who would want..
    - a clamshell. I would have bought a Samsung SPH-I500 but I was locked into T-Mobile at the time and I read a lot of complaints about unreliability. Graffiti 1 input, a real phone pad, and a high rez screen would be amazing. Does anyone else get annoyed trying to find the speaker sweetspot on your ear with the Treo?
    I know a clamshell device won't happen - they changed course with the 180 and never went back but wouldn't it be nice?

    What we don't need:
    (I'm saying "need" here as opposed to "want")
    A camera - I know we've all gotten use to having one on our phones but I, for one, wouldn't care if it was sacrificed for other great features. For great pictures, you need a real camera, not a phone. They're always going to be poor cousins and add to the price.
    GPS - not a priority
    Multitasking - I use the Treo on the go and don't need it to do three things at once and have to figure out which apps are still open. Save the memory hassles.


    So one opinion...
  5. #25  
    Don't mess with the keyboard??
    The Treo keyboard is horrible. Tiny chicklet keys do not lend themselves well to fast typing. Take a page from RIMs playbook and design a small keyboard that you can type fast on. When I went from the 700p to the BB 8830, the keyboard experience was night and day. The BB keys are far superior to anything Palm makes.
  6. #26  
    Classic Treo. Keep the keyboard. Make the screen better. Add stability, simplified OS & software, wifi, etc..it's not too hard to figure out. Business oriented.

    Touch Treo. This is multimedia/consumer oriented. Iphone like browser. Widescreen, high resolution. virtual keyboard. Real software to sync music, video, pics & movies besides the other palm stuff. Hook up with someone to provide the media to dl. This is the one that gets Palm out of its rut. The iphone that isn't crippled.

    No slide outs. It won't work. I mentioned these back when engadget sent their wake up call to palm. The iphone may get a lot of attention but it's deserved...except it's missing a lot of things. Palm could fill in those missing blanks and have something.

    I think some have alluded to having two products already. It's common sense i think.
    Last edited by cardfan; 09/21/2007 at 04:30 AM.
  7. #27  
    My phone? Nokia 95 specs with a key board and touch screen - housed in a LG Prada case.

    Some don't like slide out keyboards, but it is the only way to increase both the screen size and key size. And it has benefits of hiding sensity camera parts when closed.

    I'd like to see the above with a dual slider/split QWERTY. It could also be a great gaming phone when opened ala PSP style. That would be something I would pay $699 for.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
    Don't mess with the keyboard??
    The Treo keyboard is horrible. Tiny chicklet keys do not lend themselves well to fast typing. Take a page from RIMs playbook and design a small keyboard that you can type fast on. When I went from the 700p to the BB 8830, the keyboard experience was night and day. The BB keys are far superior to anything Palm makes.
    Well guys, ArgonNJ has spoken, the Treo keyboard is crap and so it must be eliminated to fit his final judgement. Get to work!

    Seriously now: do you understand that not everyone thinks like you, *especially* about the Treo keyboard which is constantly praised by most everyone who talks about it?

    I've had blackberrys imposed on me at work (BBs are standard issue at my company), and while their full sized keyboards (as opposed to condensed ones as in the Pearl) are definitely ok , they don't hold a candle to the Treo typing experience in my personal opinion, and that of most people I talk two who have owned both.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    I'd like to see the above with a dual slider/split QWERTY. It could also be a great gaming phone when opened ala PSP style. That would be something I would pay $699 for.
    I think the one good aspect of the Centro/500v is Palm producing and PRICING a device for the masses. That means $100 (after carrier subsidy). And again, I think two possible add'n (in addition to the Centro/QWERTY-bar) form factors would work: 1) iPhone-like touch screen-only, 2) flipphone/dialpad.

    1) is probably the surest bet: the iPhone is flying so high right now (2.7mil slated delivery), but has two clear big problems: 1) price still not for the masses, even at $400, 2) no 3rd apps. There is NO reason that if Palm can produce a Centro/500v for $100, it couldn't produce an iPhone-like touch phone for $100 using PalmOS and its huge 3rd-party app-base. Have no shame, style it kinda like an iPhone, for $100 with PalmOS and I'm convince it would sell very well. There is no competition in that market ($100 touch phone), unlike the QWERTY market. Even the coming HTC CDMA Touch is certainly going to be priced well above $100.

    2) Again, the masses buy flipphones. A new $100 Palm flipphone styled like a Razr, I think would also sell well, though right now I think #1 is a better bet. When Palm *owned* the PDAphone market, it was 3-4 years ago, at the time of the Treo 600 and 650. At that same time, the two other PDAphones were the Samsung i500 and the Kyocera 7135, both Palm flipphones. Palm was very stupid to let those OEM relationships die along with their whole market leadership... but anyways (retreading)...
  10. #30  
    That's great if palm can make a phone for the masses. But I don't want something that everyone else has. I don't want an average phone. That's why I purchased a Visorphone eight years ago, that is why I bought Treos. I want innovation and features. That was what palm/handspring was good at. That is what I still want now, weather it be palm or another manufacturer. Unfortunately, without a renewed surge of innovation from palm in the next generation of phones, it looks like I will have to go elsewhere. I hope palm and its centro/500 do really well. But I'm not going to buy one.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    I'm not too keen on the keyboards the slide out from the side either. I have seen a device (maybe it was an ipaq) where the keyboard slide out the bottom. This seems much more natural and easy to use.
    I believe the Samsung I-730 had the "slide down" keyboard which might be functional. I really want a slim device like my BB 8830. I do not like the slide out keyboard from side as on the Mogul. The mogul is still too thick. (For Me anyways)
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
    Don't mess with the keyboard??
    The Treo keyboard is horrible. Tiny chicklet keys do not lend themselves well to fast typing. Take a page from RIMs playbook and design a small keyboard that you can type fast on. When I went from the 700p to the BB 8830, the keyboard experience was night and day. The BB keys are far superior to anything Palm makes.

    Hi Argon,

    I am of reverse opinion but it is in the hand of the user. I miss key taps more on my BB 8830 than on the Treo. Wish that it were a "touchscreen".
  13. ~Q~
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       #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Classic Treo. Keep the keyboard. Make the screen better. Add stability, simplified OS & software, wifi, etc..it's not too hard to figure out. Business oriented.
    .
    Classic Treo isn't going to cut it any longer. Palm needs to come up with a new design that is hot like the iphone, but retains the things that make the Treo a "Treo." Let's face it, the Treo looks clunky next to some of the newer designs. While I've knocked the 500V, Palm seems to be going in the right direction in terms of improving the look of the Treo.

    Smartphones are more than just a tool. They are a part of our everyday lives and in some ways make a fashion statement. Given two phones that basically do thae same thing, people will typically buy the one that looks cooler and offers more eye candy.

    If making a hot smartphone was easy to figure out then, everyone would be doing it. The thing is, it isn't easy to get the formula just right. Palm nailed it when they first came out with the Treo, but now they are losing it because people's tastes change over time. They need to regroup and nail it again.
    Criterion 300>CMT>Huskey Hunter>Handspring Visor>Juniper Allegro>Palm Tungsten>TDS Recon>Treo 650>Treo 700P>Treo 755P>Blackberry Pearl

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  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    2) Again, the masses buy flipphones. A new $100 Palm flipphone styled like a Razr, I think would also sell well, though right now I think #1 is a better bet. When Palm *owned* the PDAphone market, it was 3-4 years ago, at the time of the Treo 600 and 650. At that same time, the two other PDAphones were the Samsung i500 and the Kyocera 7135, both Palm flipphones. Palm was very stupid to let those OEM relationships die along with their whole market leadership...
    Coincidentally, I just read some posts on a 7135 forum that discusses a rumor that Kyocera might be planning a 7135 successor -- a new Palm flipphone. It is definitely a "I've believe it when I see it" rumor ... I'm very skeptical, but maybe there's hope...

    http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/kyoce...alm-phone.html
  15. ~Q~
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       #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    2) Again, the masses buy flipphones. A new $100 Palm flipphone styled like a Razr, I think would also sell well, though right now I think #1 is a better bet. When Palm *owned* the PDAphone market, it was 3-4 years ago, at the time of the Treo 600 and 650. At that same time, the two other PDAphones were the Samsung i500 and the Kyocera 7135, both Palm flipphones. Palm was very stupid to let those OEM relationships die along with their whole market leadership... but anyways (retreading)...
    We are talking about two different types of users. When I was packing a dumb phone, my two top criteria were size and speaker quality. I wanted a small phone with a good, loud, handset speaker. With this type of phone all you are doing is talking to people and sending txt messages. The interface isn't that big of a deal.

    Smartphone users demand more of their devices and therefore require a more comprehensive interface. The usability of this interface is more important than size. From my recent post requested suggested specs for a next generation Treo, I'm finding that most people don't want a slide out keyboard. They like Palm's current keyboard design. People prefer a dedicated, hardware (not virtual), keyboard on the face of the phone.

    I don't think a flip smartphone would be nearly as popular as a flip dump phone.
    Criterion 300>CMT>Huskey Hunter>Handspring Visor>Juniper Allegro>Palm Tungsten>TDS Recon>Treo 650>Treo 700P>Treo 755P>Blackberry Pearl

    The Truth About MonaVie:
    http://monavieoregon.wordpress.com/
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    I don't think a flip smartphone would be nearly as popular as a flip dump phone.
    Dump/dumb... whatever
    My point would be that the lines between the two are blurring considerably... but also that I consider myself very much in the smartphone camp and yet *I* don't want a QWERTY -- if it means no flipphone, no large dialpad, no thin and compact form factor -- and of course it does since you physically can't meet all these specs. And I know there is more than one of me ... the i500 and 7135 communities are very strong and loyal and the 3125 certainly has its fans...

    Nevertheless, returning to the first point... the "dumb" phone and smartphone specs are blurring. A Muziq for example, is $100 (after subsidy) and has a browser, EVDO, solid email client, plays video, takes MicroSD, does GPS, takes notes, has contact and calendaring, runs Java apps including Google Maps and Opera Mini -- in short it offers an appreciable fraction of what a "smartphone" is -- except of course, an OS/API that encourages/has engendered lots of 3rd apps (though Java is changing even that). On the other hand, the Blackjack is now $0 (FREE with contract on amazon.com) and the 500v is/was supposed to be free (with contract).

    So the "dumb" phone and the smartphone are converging in features and in pricing. Given a choice between a "dumb" flipphone at $0-100 and a "smart" flipphone at $0-100, I'm saying a respectable fraction will choose the smart flipphone. Say it was even just 10%... that is 10% of a market that is many times larger than the market for your classical smartphone.

    If Palm can offer the Centro/500v for $100, it can certainly produce for the masses either or both an iPhone knockoff and a Palm flipphone for $100. And then why wouldn't some significant fraction of the masses choose one of these over the current "dumb" phone ?

    BTW, need I point out that y'all are self-selecting here... this being a Treo-centric site, many advocating a feature set that represents incremental improvements on the Treo, rather than a completely different device (wonder why ... :-) )
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    That's great if palm can make a phone for the masses. But I don't want something that everyone else has. I don't want an average phone. .... But I'm not going to buy one.
    That's fine for you... but I don't think Palm should be purposely and only producing phones that most people (the average) don't want... at very least, that is why I've been advocating Palm producing a DIVERSITY of phones to address both the "average" market as well as the "high end". It would be one thing if the gap between the two were very large, but between the advent of the media-centric phones (which require faster CPUs, more memory/memory slots, broadband for streaming media and good-res displays) and the successes of the Blackberries and MS's WM/Smartphone (Q/Dash/Blackjack) all available now for $0-150, the capabilities of the "average" phone, the low-end smartphone and the high-end smartphone are all converging. There isn't that much that a Blackjack can't do that a high-end smartphone can...

    So Palm needs to find its niche and market segment, and it would do better to offer (and continue to offer) products that are truly unique. But that doesn't mean offer phones solely targeted towards the few customers that care mostly about being different from the average... Frankly I couldn't care less about being different from the average, as long as the average meets my needs and interests... I use an average PC and laptop and own an average TV and DVD player, and I'm fine with those too...
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    Classic Treo isn't going to cut it any longer. Palm needs to come up with a new design that is hot like the iphone, but retains the things that make the Treo a "Treo." Let's face it, the Treo looks clunky next to some of the newer designs. While I've knocked the 500V, Palm seems to be going in the right direction in terms of improving the look of the Treo.

    Smartphones are more than just a tool. They are a part of our everyday lives and in some ways make a fashion statement. Given two phones that basically do thae same thing, people will typically buy the one that looks cooler and offers more eye candy.

    If making a hot smartphone was easy to figure out then, everyone would be doing it. The thing is, it isn't easy to get the formula just right. Palm nailed it when they first came out with the Treo, but now they are losing it because people's tastes change over time. They need to regroup and nail it again.
    Classic treo in the sense that it retains it's keyboard. I sure as heck don't mean retaining the same looks or features. Palm should update all this stuff, screen, software, syncing, etc. Supply business apps. This is geared toward business.

    The Treo Touch would basically be palm's version of the iphone. Unlike the previous poster, price isn't the concern here. Having something that beats the pants off the iphone is key. EVDO, tethering, 3rd party apps, comparable browser, better audio/video apps, SLINGBOX, IM app, SMS, etc would go a long way. This is the one that goes after the non heavy business users. How would an iphone do that has all the features of current treos and then some while retaining the simple interface? I hope somewhere, palm is trying to answer this. Because it would do extremely well.. And IMO, this is what palm needs to answer to survive.

    In both cases, palm would need to step up its support, take marketing 101, and make these things reliable. Can they do this? That's the question...
  19. #39  
    "That's fine for you... "

    And for over a million others who choose the non-typical, non-flip, and uber-expensive iPhone, Apple's only offering. That is a sales number Palm can only fantisize reaching with their "consumer-oriented" Treo 500/Centro phone.

    Palm can't compete with Motorola or Nokia in terms of cranking out numerous offerings of dull phones. But they could reach something like Apple sales with a feature rich, inovative, sexy phone even at a higher pricepoint. The iPhone shows there is a market for it, despite it not being a flip, having no dedicated keyboard, having a closed, proprietary OS, and without having all that many features for the price. How? Mostly because it is innovative, different from other phones and cool.

    That is what Palm has to do if they want to more than tread water in the market. They cannot battle the big players at this time, they have to be a stand out - and that means producing phones that stand out - not phones that can be easily lost in the crowd.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  20. #40  
    Pardon my pessimism here, but I don't think Palm peruses around here finding out their power user's desires. It seems like Apple has for the past 5 years tho. That's why they are now delivering what many have been begging for since the early part of this decade.

    Palm is far smarter than listening to a bunch of customers. They apparently got analysts and professional market researchers to help them churn out their incredible cutting edge products. Apple doesn't stand a chance against the mighty 500, Centro, and coming Foleo Remix.

    Keep the cool ideas coming tho. Someone is listening. :-D
    Patrick Horne
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