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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Curve 2 is coming to Sprint, probably Q1 2008 (and obviously the Perl is coming in the next two months)

    Usual specs: aGPS ("telenav"), camera, BT, etc. Definitely no Wifi though.
    Yea, prolly should've said "when" since the BGR report is the only thing I have to look forward to now (thanks to Palm). True, no WiFi on CDMA (just GSM) but with EVDO I can live without it (my deal with Sprint is too good to pass up.

    I've had my GSM Curve for just a few days and so far, I haven't gone thru touchscreen withdrawal since the trackball works pretty well. Although I miss the experimenting with 3rd-party apps for my 700p, it sure is nice to have so much more built-in to the device out of the box. There are a lot of 3rd party apps available as well, so more experimentation to come.
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by adjmcloon View Post
    http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2007/...ng-day-weekend

    Bottom part of the article..we'll see. If the Curve hits Sprint, I am jumping.

    why not just put the camera on the BB 8830?
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by morningstar1844 View Post
    why not just put the camera on the BB 8830?
    That is what I would like to see. Call it an 8835 or something. The 8830 is a great looking device, don't know why they left off the camera.
  4. #24  
    This is not to start a Blackberry vs. Palm debate...however.

    I'm on my third BB as my work provided device (a Sprint 8830 this time). I've been forced to use a BB for the past 2-3 years. For the life of me I can't see how anyone can trade a Treo for a BB unless the only thing you need is simple read/reply to e-mail and contact lookup. It's a good product for those two things and that seems to fit the needs of probably 95% of our corporate users. The 8830 is a very nice piece of hardware but the BB OS is as limiting as always if you need a lot of varied functionality.

    Oddly my associate was complaining today that you can't get anything done on a mobile device - easily edit documents or web browsing with any efficiency were two main topics. We started to debate when it occurred to me that his only mobile experience was with a Blackberry and I was coming at the discussion as a Treo user. When I showed him how easy, and effective, it was to do things with my Treo, he was bumming he couldn't get the company to spring for one for him.

    lnichols: The 8830 will find a home in secure environments where a camera isn't allowed.
  5. #25  
    Being one of the few at work with a Treo, I used to trash talk my coworkers BBs and show on my Treo all the things they couldn't do. While some of this is still true, I have to say having a Curve for the last two weeks (in addition to my Sprint 700p) has been a distinct pleasure. Maybe with time I'll learn to like it less, but right out of the box it "just plain works" with more functionality than the POS Treos. (I've had every one them since the 300).

    Not sure which Treo you have MarkY, but compared to the 700p
    the BB browser doesn't render as well as Blazer but the email app is far better than VersaMail (the scurge of all POS Treos). I've had to tweak the email options to suit my tastes, but it's highly usable. I suppose it would be nice if it handled richer html email, but I can live without it and/or enhance it with 3rd party sw. VersaMail never handled it well, so I'm used to it and never made the jump to Chatter or SnapperMail (the way mail really should be).

    What things did you find missing/a problem?

    The OS is pre-emptive multitasking - a huge benefit over POS - no lags, no audio stutter, etc. Out of the box the Curve has much of the functionality I've had to add with 3rd party apps to my 700p (Butler, ProfileCare, AcidImage, Java, LudusP, mSafe, PalmPDF, PasswordsPlus, TCPMP, zLauncher) plus it has a working BT with A2DP. I enjoyed all the experimenting, but appreciate the "ready to roll" as well. The PIM apps are as good or better than POS and DTG is being ported so doc editing will eventually be available.

    The Curve definitely isn't perfect (no camcorder, no SlingPlayer yet) but it was far better than I expected and the form factor beats the tar out of the 700 series. I thought I'd go through touchscreen withdrawal but the hard keys and trackball on the Curve have made that pretty painless.

    I truly wish Palm had continued to innovate but am afraid they are falling further behind (mostly for the POS versions). If the Curve comes to Sprint, I'd like make the final jump out (sadly).

    Sorry for the long post, but after a couple of weeks of daily use I felt I was in a decent position to make a comparison (at the risk of starting a debate).
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    That is what I would like to see. Call it an 8835 or something. The 8830 is a great looking device, don't know why they left off the camera.
    That 8830 feels like you are carring a plate in your pocket. It's way too wide, IMO. The fact that its thinner than a Treo is of no value.

    However, this BB discussion brings up a good point. RIM will very likely scoop up Palm OS users if Palm really is going to take 18 months to put out POS II. The Blackberry interface is infinately better than WM. Given the nice BB Curve formfactor and a growing collection of third party apps, I'd say Palm better re-think its strategy.
    Criterion 300>CMT>Huskey Hunter>Handspring Visor>Juniper Allegro>Palm Tungsten>TDS Recon>Treo 650>Treo 700P>Treo 755P>Blackberry Pearl

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  7. wxboss's Avatar
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkY View Post
    This is not to start a Blackberry vs. Palm debate...however.

    I'm on my third BB as my work provided device (a Sprint 8830 this time). I've been forced to use a BB for the past 2-3 years. For the life of me I can't see how anyone can trade a Treo for a BB unless the only thing you need is simple read/reply to e-mail and contact lookup. It's a good product for those two things and that seems to fit the needs of probably 95% of our corporate users. The 8830 is a very nice piece of hardware but the BB OS is as limiting as always if you need a lot of varied functionality.

    Oddly my associate was complaining today that you can't get anything done on a mobile device - easily edit documents or web browsing with any efficiency were two main topics. We started to debate when it occurred to me that his only mobile experience was with a Blackberry and I was coming at the discussion as a Treo user. When I showed him how easy, and effective, it was to do things with my Treo, he was bumming he couldn't get the company to spring for one for him.

    lnichols: The 8830 will find a home in secure environments where a camera isn't allowed.
    I have to agree. While I like my BB, I love my Treo! The BB is a decent device, but the lack of decent 3rd party apps to enhance its bland and fairly anemic calendar and task apps and lack of a decent MS doc reader/ editor becomes a real issue for me. The Treo is light years ahead of BB on this - and these things are important to me.
  8. #28  
    Out of curiosity, what did you find "bland and anemic"? In comparing them to the POS versions, they are almost identical. The only diffs I see is that POS Calendar Agenda view shows Tasks in a separate pane (very handy) and the Tasks show more options in List view (priority, date, date range).
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomvb2000 View Post
    Being one of the few at work with a Treo, I used to trash talk my coworkers BBs and show on my Treo all the things they couldn't do. While some of this is still true, I have to say having a Curve for the last two weeks (in addition to my Sprint 700p) has been a distinct pleasure. Maybe with time I'll learn to like it less, but right out of the box it "just plain works" with more functionality than the POS Treos. (I've had every one them since the 300).

    Not sure which Treo you have MarkY, but compared to the 700p
    the BB browser doesn't render as well as Blazer but the email app is far better than VersaMail (the scurge of all POS Treos). I've had to tweak the email options to suit my tastes, but it's highly usable. I suppose it would be nice if it handled richer html email, but I can live without it and/or enhance it with 3rd party sw. VersaMail never handled it well, so I'm used to it and never made the jump to Chatter or SnapperMail (the way mail really should be).

    What things did you find missing/a problem?

    The OS is pre-emptive multitasking - a huge benefit over POS - no lags, no audio stutter, etc. Out of the box the Curve has much of the functionality I've had to add with 3rd party apps to my 700p (Butler, ProfileCare, AcidImage, Java, LudusP, mSafe, PalmPDF, PasswordsPlus, TCPMP, zLauncher) plus it has a working BT with A2DP. I enjoyed all the experimenting, but appreciate the "ready to roll" as well. The PIM apps are as good or better than POS and DTG is being ported so doc editing will eventually be available.

    The Curve definitely isn't perfect (no camcorder, no SlingPlayer yet) but it was far better than I expected and the form factor beats the tar out of the 700 series. I thought I'd go through touchscreen withdrawal but the hard keys and trackball on the Curve have made that pretty painless.

    I truly wish Palm had continued to innovate but am afraid they are falling further behind (mostly for the POS versions). If the Curve comes to Sprint, I'd like make the final jump out (sadly).

    Sorry for the long post, but after a couple of weeks of daily use I felt I was in a decent position to make a comparison (at the risk of starting a debate).

    I miss Resco Backup, if on the road and I have to do a reformat & reinstall; I cannot do this with the BB but I can on my Treo. Wish also there were a good "pocket quicken" Some of the software available is sparse. With Mobimate I cannot do my travel plans; they say that will come in a future edition. On Demand you cannot do a full story for each news item; you have to do each one separately. Personally I think the build quality is better on the BB 8830 than the Curve (it seemed more plastic). Form factor is probably better with the curve as "Q" has noted that the BB 8830 feels like a plate. The BB is a solid device to be sure. I still miss my touch screen. The news from Palm is so little. You have to wonder what goes on in their "board meetings" behind closed doors!!???
  10. wxboss's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomvb2000 View Post
    Out of curiosity, what did you find "bland and anemic"? In comparing them to the POS versions, they are almost identical. The only diffs I see is that POS Calendar Agenda view shows Tasks in a separate pane (very handy) and the Tasks show more options in List view (priority, date, date range).
    At least with version 4.1 the calendar and tasks apps are very basic. Most BB users yearn for apps that could even come close to those such as Agendus. Having owned programs like To Do Matrix (I need decent project tracking tools), you quickly realize that the limited BB programs in this area aren't as user friendly or as powerful as their equivalent Palm apps. They're clunky and not very intuitive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting the Blackberry down as a whole, but even the default email program (which is one area the BB excels in) leaves much to be desired.
    I know that the POS is outdated, but it's still very functional and more powerful and useful than some other mobile OS out there.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    That is what I would like to see. Call it an 8835 or something. The 8830 is a great looking device, don't know why they left off the camera.
    They leave the camera off so government employees can use them. There are a lot of places where cameras, any cameras even cell phone cameras, are expressly forbidden. By leaving the camera off this allows sales to governmental employees. There is a large enough market for this.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by morningstar1844 View Post
    I miss Resco Backup, if on the road and I have to do a reformat & reinstall; I cannot do this with the BB but I can on my Treo. Wish also there were a good "pocket quicken" Some of the software available is sparse. With Mobimate I cannot do my travel plans; they say that will come in a future edition. On Demand you cannot do a full story for each news item; you have to do each one separately. Personally I think the build quality is better on the BB 8830 than the Curve (it seemed more plastic). Form factor is probably better with the curve as "Q" has noted that the BB 8830 feels like a plate. The BB is a solid device to be sure. I still miss my touch screen. The news from Palm is so little. You have to wonder what goes on in their "board meetings" behind closed doors!!???
    Thanks for the bg info. I'd feel better having a BB backup app too - I'm using BackupBuddyVFS on my 700p. Although my 700p has been much more stable than my 650 due to larger dbCache, it's not immune to spontaneous resets, It's only been a few weeks, but I haven't had one on the Curve yet.

    I do like the Curve form factor - with the 8000 series BB's are finally better looking. I was once accused of having "the world's largest cell phone" back in the Treo300 days, so having something thin and pocketable is a nice change.

    You can't do a full OD news article on the Treo either - OD/PocketExpress both have a "Full" button to get the full article.

    I have no idea what's going on in the board meetings either. It's been a bad year for POS Treos with no real end in sight. Due to POS atrophy I expect they'll focus more on WM Treos since work on POS seems like "rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic".
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by wxboss View Post
    At least with version 4.1 the calendar and tasks apps are very basic. Most BB users yearn for apps that could even come close to those such as Agendus. Having owned programs like To Do Matrix (I need decent project tracking tools), you quickly realize that the limited BB programs in this area aren't as user friendly or as powerful as their equivalent Palm apps. They're clunky and not very intuitive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting the Blackberry down as a whole, but even the default email program (which is one area the BB excels in) leaves much to be desired.
    No argument there - I do miss my Today screen and the choice of 3rd party apps is more limited. A little surprising given RIM's market share, but that may be more due to fewer Java developers than anything else.
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by wxboss View Post
    At least with version 4.1 the calendar and tasks apps are very basic. Most BB users yearn for apps that could even come close to those such as Agendus. Having owned programs like To Do Matrix (I need decent project tracking tools), you quickly realize that the limited BB programs in this area aren't as user friendly or as powerful as their equivalent Palm apps. They're clunky and not very intuitive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting the Blackberry down as a whole, but even the default email program (which is one area the BB excels in) leaves much to be desired.
    I know that the POS is outdated, but it's still very functional and more powerful and useful than some other mobile OS out there.
    Just a comment....

    The situation we are in now with regard to mobile OS's is very analagous to the transition that PC Os's went thru during the transition from DOS to Windows. There were some very good DOS applications that were superior to Windows offerings, but multi-tasking and maturation of Windows led to far superior applications. I think we are in that transition phase with mobile OS's right now.

    Unfortunately POS is DOS and other mobile OS's have the ability to mature via multitasking as handset hardware and network infrastructure improve and grow more powerful.
  15. #35  
    That's a very good reference. As smartphones grow in capability, the OS has to support the new demands, so it's a natural evolution.

    For anyone who remembers, POS cooperative multitasking is much like DOS TSR apps on Intel 80286 processors (two generations before Pentium). It took the 80386 to support true multitasking in Windows.

    This is exactly why I fear that another 12-18 month delay in Plinux will make it irrelevant by the time it comes out. The fatal mistake was Palm/Access failing to innovate 3-4 years ago and/or failing to come up a "DOS->Windows" transition strategy to bring POS into the world of premptive multitasking.
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    The situation we are in now with regard to mobile OS's is very analagous to the transition that PC Os's went thru during the transition from DOS to Windows. There were some very good DOS applications that were superior to Windows offerings, but multi-tasking and maturation of Windows led to far superior applications. I think we are in that transition phase with mobile OS's right now.

    Unfortunately POS is DOS and other mobile OS's have the ability to mature via multitasking as handset hardware and network infrastructure improve and grow more powerful.
    I like this analogy above.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomvb2000
    As smartphones grow in capability, the OS has to support the new demands, so it's a natural evolution.

    For anyone who remembers, POS cooperative multitasking is much like DOS TSR apps on Intel 80286 processors (two generations before Pentium). It took the 80386 to support true multitasking in Windows.

    This is exactly why I fear that another 12-18 month delay in Plinux will make it irrelevant by the time it comes out.
    Right now there is no one answer to mobile OS. The Palm=DOS reference is good but WM, RIM, Symbian, etc have shortcomings as well. If Palm is able to deliver a compelling OS in 12-18 months, they might still have a chance. WM and RIM install bases are growing but neither is currently the be-all-end-all. They too will need to innovate to maintain relevancy. I am hopeful that the Palm-Linux OS will be able to meet a larger portion of the new demands. In a way, Palm may be in a better position to come out with something revolutionary since the current OS is so old and Palm might have less to lose in that regard since customers are screaming for something new. RIM and WM, with their established corporate installs might be forced to be evolutionary as to not upset the apple cart.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkY View Post
    If Palm is able to deliver a compelling OS in 12-18 months, they might still have a chance. WM and RIM install bases are growing but neither is currently the be-all-end-all.
    There is definitely room for either Palm or someone else to fill in the large consumer gap.

    The iPhone is doing that now, but since (a) it's software locked and (b) carrier locked (ignoring the "hacks" for now), there still needs to be a mass consumer OS that has a large 3rd party base. WM and RIM are first and foremost enterprise OSs, with a dash here and there for consumers. Symbian actually isn't that bad, but at least here in the U.S., it's not much of an option, especially on CDMA. Same with ALP: nice looking OS, but no reason to think it'll we'll see it here.

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  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by adjmcloon View Post
    With the revelation of a 12-18 month wait for Palm's Linux OS, what will be your next phone? The Blackberry Curve is looking niiiicce.
    The N95 as a fashion phone, the 680 till it dies, and maybe the E90 to replace that. Not really seeing much else that I wanna play with as a productivity device.

    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    Just a comment....

    The situation we are in now with regard to mobile OS's is very analagous to the transition that PC Os's went thru during the transition from DOS to Windows. There were some very good DOS applications that were superior to Windows offerings, but multi-tasking and maturation of Windows led to far superior applications. I think we are in that transition phase with mobile OS's right now.

    Unfortunately POS is DOS and other mobile OS's have the ability to mature via multitasking as handset hardware and network infrastructure improve and grow more powerful.
    Great comment.

    I agree with Mal. Tons of room as the smartphone/feature phone space is huge. However, not sure if anyone really wants to make that device that just "gets it." For that, its either accept compromises, or get a hacked-together solution.

    Side note: in this kinda discussion, it sucks to be on the CDMA side as you only have the carrier deck to choose from. If anything is an advantage to GSM, choice of device is certainely one huge one to me.
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  19. #39  
    MarkY, Mal - you both raise good points. All the OSs need to innovate to survive longterm - especially if you believe the smartphone market is still a relative infant and not near a consolidation point where only the top 2-3 players reign.

    With Apple in the mix (especially for the largely untapped mass consumer market), the field is getting crowded. Because of that, I'm afraid of another 12-18 months before something really new (non-WM) from Palm feels like an eternity in a fast-changing environment.
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
  20. #40  
    They test even my patience.
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