Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33
  1. ~Q~
    ~Q~ is offline
    ~Q~'s Avatar
    Posts
    369 Posts
    Global Posts
    370 Global Posts
       #1  
    Am I missing something or is does Access already have exactly what Palm is trying to recreate?

    http://www.access-company.com/products/linux/alp.html

    This web page says this version of Mobile Linux also runs native Garnet apps.

    Why doesn't Palm just use the and focus on creating new hardware?
    Criterion 300>CMT>Huskey Hunter>Handspring Visor>Juniper Allegro>Palm Tungsten>TDS Recon>Treo 650>Treo 700P>Treo 755P>Blackberry Pearl

    The Truth About MonaVie:
    http://monavieoregon.wordpress.com/
  2. #2  
    Is it really finished or is it another Cobalt?
  3. ~Q~
    ~Q~ is offline
    ~Q~'s Avatar
    Posts
    369 Posts
    Global Posts
    370 Global Posts
       #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by detective View Post
    Is it really finished or is it another Cobalt?
    It looks finished to me. They even have screen shots. Notice that the application launcher has a hotsync icon... interesting.... Have a look at the specs. It sounds custom made for a Treo.

    With respect to Garnet:

    "Garnet VM allows properly written of ACCESS Garnet OS (formerly Palm OS Garnet) applications to run unaltered on an ACCESS Linux Platform mobile device "

    Seems strange to me that Palm would go to Windriver with Access Linux basically ready to go. This begs the question: Was Windriver just a Foleo thing and is Palm planning on using Access Linux for their smartphones. It would certainly make sense. Ed Collins stated that they didn't want two Linux platforms, but to consolidate into one, which is one of the reasons for canceling the Foleo.

    If Access Linux is the Linux platform that Palm is now focusing on, then it may not be as long as we thought before we see a Linux Treo.

    Why would access pour resources into doing this and providing compatibility with Garnet if it didn't have some kind of an agreement with Palm?
    Criterion 300>CMT>Huskey Hunter>Handspring Visor>Juniper Allegro>Palm Tungsten>TDS Recon>Treo 650>Treo 700P>Treo 755P>Blackberry Pearl

    The Truth About MonaVie:
    http://monavieoregon.wordpress.com/
  4. #4  
    Why no ALP. (Stolen from PalmInfoCenter.com, a great website)

    From an interview with PalmAddict by Jeff Hawkins from March 2007.

    Jeff Hawkins: OK, letís put this in perspective. First of all, Palm, in my mind, is in the best shape itís been in, in a long, long time. Itís amazing this company is still around. It was split up, the founders were kicked out, and they sold off the operating system. Itís nothing that I or Ed or Donna had anything to do with; but, this company has been operated inÖmany different ways.

    Now, look at Palm today: we have Ed, practically a founder, running the business. Donna (Dubinsky) is on the board, and Iím still involved. We have our name back. We just bought the rights back to Palm OS from ACCESS; so we now have control of the Operating System again. One of the main reasons we did a Windows-based product is because we were worried we wouldnít have access to the Palm OS. Palm is in complete control of its destiny again.

    PJA: I think releasing WinMo devices was a smart move, in any case.

    JEFF: It probably was; but hereís the thing: we didnít have control of our own destiny for the past 5 years. We didnít have our name, we didnít have our brand, and we own our OS. We were struggling to get into the smartphone space, while we were losing our traditional distribution channels. It was a difficult time. While all this was going on, Palm kept growing; and, is still growing rapidly. Although there are lots of competitors, Palm is a very healthy company. Weíve been profitable for many consecutive quarters, years really; and, weíre making lots of money; and, we finally feel like we have control of our destiny back in our hands again.

    Now, it takes a little but of time to turn that into products. It takes 2 years to design new products, and so you donít see this control reflected immediately in the product line. In my view, this is a good time at Palm. In terms of viability, we have lots of cash, weíre profitable, and weíre in control of our own destiny. We havenít been in this kind of shape in a long, long time.
    http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmad...awkins_is.html

    Its all about control. If they wanted to give up control again they might as well go fully Win Mobile.

    Surur
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    It looks finished to me. They even have screen shots. Notice that the application launcher has a hotsync icon... interesting.... Have a look at the specs. It sounds custom made for a Treo.

    With respect to Garnet:

    "Garnet VM allows properly written of ACCESS Garnet OS (formerly Palm OS Garnet) applications to run unaltered on an ACCESS Linux Platform mobile device "

    Seems strange to me that Palm would go to Windriver with Access Linux basically ready to go. This begs the question: Was Windriver just a Foleo thing and is Palm planning on using Access Linux for their smartphones. It would certainly make sense. Ed Collins stated that they didn't want two Linux platforms, but to consolidate into one, which is one of the reasons for canceling the Foleo.

    If Access Linux is the Linux platform that Palm is now focusing on, then it may not be as long as we thought before we see a Linux Treo.

    Why would access pour resources into doing this and providing compatibility with Garnet if it didn't have some kind of an agreement with Palm?
    (1) Windrive WAS just a Foleo thing, hence one reason why it was canceled as Palm did not want to support two platforms going forward.

    (2) There was never a permanent deal with Palm and Access for ALP, just a co-development project that ended. Access bought PalmOS with the intention of making a linux layer and backwards compatible. It will primarily be an OS for Asian markets. Vodaphone expressed interest but no U.S. manufactures or Carriers have ever expressed interest nor support, so you'll probably never see it here.

    (3) The article Surur links to is exactly right. Palm wants their own OS, not to license out from someone else. It's a risky gamble but if pulled off, it really gives them a uniqueness to the market; think Apple but open to 3rd party developers. WM doesn't do that, though it helps pay their bills.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  6. ~Q~
    ~Q~ is offline
    ~Q~'s Avatar
    Posts
    369 Posts
    Global Posts
    370 Global Posts
       #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Why no ALP. (Stolen from PalmInfoCenter.com, a great website)

    From an interview with PalmAddict by Jeff Hawkins from March 2007.


    http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmad...awkins_is.html

    Its all about control. If they wanted to give up control again they might as well go fully Win Mobile.

    Surur
    Well, I think we all know how much pull Mr. Hawkins has over at Palm now. This interview came a couple of months before he announced the greatest device he's ever had the opportunity to work on. I don't think we can put alot of stock into what Mr. Hawkin's said back then.

    If it was all about control, why did Palm pull Windriver into the Foleo mix? I'll tell you why: Palm managment started to realize that Ben's team couldn't continue to support an inhouse version of Linux alone, so they decided to outsource it.

    If Palm in-fact dumped ALP, then Access would start working to generalize to work on other hardware. This doesn't seem to be happening. The link I posted is from a site that went up less than a month ago. Everything about ALP says Treo.

    Surur, I think you are wrong this time. I think Palm may have wanted to move away from Access, but is now planning on using ALP for the next generation of POS Treos.
    Criterion 300>CMT>Huskey Hunter>Handspring Visor>Juniper Allegro>Palm Tungsten>TDS Recon>Treo 650>Treo 700P>Treo 755P>Blackberry Pearl

    The Truth About MonaVie:
    http://monavieoregon.wordpress.com/
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    Surur, I think you are wrong this time. I think Palm may have wanted to move away from Access, but is now planning on using ALP for the next generation of POS Treos.
    If that is accurate then you're the only one who knows it

    It would seem that during the recent shareholder meeting, some kind of announcement would have been made regarding co-development with Access, as investors want to know where their money is going. But there is no deal in place.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  8. ~Q~
    ~Q~ is offline
    ~Q~'s Avatar
    Posts
    369 Posts
    Global Posts
    370 Global Posts
       #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    (1) Windrive WAS just a Foleo thing, hence one reason why it was canceled as Palm did not want to support two platforms going forward.
    I disagree. I think Windriver was pulled in as a last ditch effort to save the Foleo. Palm had already created a working version of Linux to run on the Foleo. I think Palm management took a hard look at the development effort the Foleo was sucking up and said "Guys, we need to figure something else out here or we are going to lose this." Windriver was that solution.

    I also believe that the version of Linux running on Foleo is in fact the Palm Linux Jeff Hawkin's was referring to back in March of 2007. It may not have been the exact version for a smartphone, but the core was the same.

    They didn't want to support two platforms: 1) Windriver 2) ALP.

    I realize I'm speculating on all of this, but it really does make sense.
    Criterion 300>CMT>Huskey Hunter>Handspring Visor>Juniper Allegro>Palm Tungsten>TDS Recon>Treo 650>Treo 700P>Treo 755P>Blackberry Pearl

    The Truth About MonaVie:
    http://monavieoregon.wordpress.com/
  9. ~Q~
    ~Q~ is offline
    ~Q~'s Avatar
    Posts
    369 Posts
    Global Posts
    370 Global Posts
       #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    If that is accurate then you're the only one who knows it
    .
    Just remember, I said it first.
    Criterion 300>CMT>Huskey Hunter>Handspring Visor>Juniper Allegro>Palm Tungsten>TDS Recon>Treo 650>Treo 700P>Treo 755P>Blackberry Pearl

    The Truth About MonaVie:
    http://monavieoregon.wordpress.com/
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    I disagree. I think Windriver was pulled in as a last ditch effort to save the Foleo. Palm had already created a working version of Linux to run on the Foleo. I think Palm management took a hard look at the development effort the Foleo was sucking up and said "Guys, we need to figure something else out here or we are going to lose this." Windriver was that solution.

    I also believe that the version of Linux running on Foleo is in fact the Palm Linux Jeff Hawkin's was referring to back in March of 2007. It may not have been the exact version for a smartphone, but the core was the same.

    They didn't want to support two platforms: 1) Windriver 2) ALP.

    I realize I'm speculating on all of this, but it really does make sense.
    Foleo is based on second platform and a separate development environment, and we need to focus our efforts on one platform. Our own evaluation and early market feedback were telling us that we still have a number of improvements to make Foleo a world-class product, and we can not afford to make those improvements on a platform that is not central to our core focus. That would not be right for our customers or for our developer community.
    - Ed Coligan 9/04/07

    Even if they brought in Winriver to "save" the Foleo, it was quickly seen as a very bad idea, since they could not support 2 platforms and the Winriver version was not ever meant for their "new" smartphone platform.

    Foleo OS ≠ Next Gen Palm smartphone OS

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    Well, I think we all know how much pull Mr. Hawkins has over at Palm now. This interview came a couple of months before he announced the greatest device he's ever had the opportunity to work on. I don't think we can put alot of stock into what Mr. Hawkin's said back then.

    If it was all about control, why did Palm pull Windriver into the Foleo mix? I'll tell you why: Palm managment started to realize that Ben's team couldn't continue to support an inhouse version of Linux alone, so they decided to outsource it.

    If Palm in-fact dumped ALP, then Access would start working to generalize to work on other hardware. This doesn't seem to be happening. The link I posted is from a site that went up less than a month ago. Everything about ALP says Treo.

    Surur, I think you are wrong this time. I think Palm may have wanted to move away from Access, but is now planning on using ALP for the next generation of POS Treos.

    If this were to happen are we still 6 months down the road before the first Linux Treo would hit the streets or longer?
  12. ~Q~
    ~Q~ is offline
    ~Q~'s Avatar
    Posts
    369 Posts
    Global Posts
    370 Global Posts
       #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    - Ed Coligan 9/04/07

    Even if they brought in Winriver to "save" the Foleo, it was quickly seen as a very bad idea, since they could not support 2 platforms and the Winriver version was not ever meant for their "new" smartphone platform.
    I could well be in left field, but it makes for some nice pondering...

    Ed's comments are so generic, it is hard to know what is really going on behind the scenes. I'm hedging my bets that they are outsourcing the bulk of their OS needs and focusing inhouse dev on apps and eye candy.

    Perry, I think you are going to get your 900P inside of the next 6-8 months and it will be running ALP with a Palm customized GUI.
    Criterion 300>CMT>Huskey Hunter>Handspring Visor>Juniper Allegro>Palm Tungsten>TDS Recon>Treo 650>Treo 700P>Treo 755P>Blackberry Pearl

    The Truth About MonaVie:
    http://monavieoregon.wordpress.com/
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    I disagree. I think Windriver was pulled in as a last ditch effort to save the Foleo. Palm had already created a working version of Linux to run on the Foleo. I think Palm management took a hard look at the development effort the Foleo was sucking up and said "Guys, we need to figure something else out here or we are going to lose this." Windriver was that solution.

    I also believe that the version of Linux running on Foleo is in fact the Palm Linux Jeff Hawkin's was referring to back in March of 2007. It may not have been the exact version for a smartphone, but the core was the same.

    They didn't want to support two platforms: 1) Windriver 2) ALP.

    I realize I'm speculating on all of this, but it really does make sense.
    I believe the Wind River announcement pertained to just the developer tools used for writing software for the Foleo.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    Surur, I think you are wrong this time. I think Palm may have wanted to move away from Access, but is now planning on using ALP for the next generation of POS Treos.
    I would decline to say anything is impossible, but if this does happen it would just be another example of failed PalmOS OS development, and another thrilling chapter in which Pam goes full circle and waste years and millions getting nothing done.

    Its like the days of our lives. One could not make it up. No one would believe you.

    Surur
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    Ed's comments are so generic, it is hard to know what is really going on behind the scenes. I'm hedging my bets that they are outsourcing the bulk of their OS needs and focusing inhouse dev on apps and eye candy.
    Of course Ed's comments are generic; Palm is publicly traded and there are SEC rules about public disclosure of forward-looking statements.
  16. ~Q~
    ~Q~ is offline
    ~Q~'s Avatar
    Posts
    369 Posts
    Global Posts
    370 Global Posts
       #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by detective View Post
    Of course Ed's comments are generic; Palm is publicly traded and there are SEC rules about public disclosure of forward-looking statements.
    His statement had nothing to do with SEC rules, but follows Palm's MO of being secretive.
    Criterion 300>CMT>Huskey Hunter>Handspring Visor>Juniper Allegro>Palm Tungsten>TDS Recon>Treo 650>Treo 700P>Treo 755P>Blackberry Pearl

    The Truth About MonaVie:
    http://monavieoregon.wordpress.com/
  17. Brjlk's Avatar
    Posts
    112 Posts
    Global Posts
    325 Global Posts
    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    Am I missing something or is does Access already have exactly what Palm is trying to recreate?
    One possible answer. It's a question of Palm Inc's pride. They sold their OS to Access. They don't want to buy it back in the form of paying licences to Access. For them it would mean a sort of failure. Palm Inc wants to show to the World thay can build another OS from scratch.

    IMO it is another bad move from Palm Inc. They should have licenced ALP from Access now (at least until their OS is ready), instead of waiting for another 18 months for their OS to get ready.

    Other questions. What are the licencees for the new ALP Linux? Does Access manufacture hardware too? Is the name access on the Phone (on Access's site) a brand?

    John
    Leonardo, Listpro, Agendus12, Phone Magic, Adarian Money, Ultrasoft Money, Lightwave 2.4

    SMS Scheduler, FunSMS, SMS Counter, PictureSMS 1.01B2, Butler, Phone Technician

    Resco Backup, Resco Photo Viewer, Mobilewrite, Text Plus, Card Reader,SlovoEd Dict.

    Project @ Hand
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brjlk View Post
    They should have licenced ALP from Access now (at least until their OS is ready), instead of waiting for another 18 months for their OS to get ready.
    Are you serious? Do you know how much hassle that will be? They'll have to train everyone to support ALP and THEN train them to support POS II. What about the customers and developers? I know I would be annoyed if Palm kept shuffling OSs around like that. It's one thing when they're changing it to evolve, but just to put something new for a short period of time isn't feasable.
  19. #19  
    Believe you're confused on the PalmOS history. Ownership of PalmOS went to PalmSource when Palm split into PalmOne and PalmSource. PalmSource failed with Cobalt, started on a Linux OS, missed deadlines in their contract with Palm for maintenance and fixes to OS5, and was acquired by Access in late 2005, then changed direction to work exclusively on ALP.

    There are no known licensees for ALP. Access does not make hardware. Their primary claim to fame is NetFront browser (which is at the core of Blazer).

    Access has no legal right to use the Palm trademark, thus newer Treos identify OS5's ownership by Access.
  20. #20  
    According to this Brighthand Article the delays with a Linux-based OS are being extended. Significantly. Like another 12 -18 months! So think 2009 for a linux release. This company wants to kill itself! They've got the tools for world domination at their fingertips yet they insist on shooting themselves in the foot every chance they get.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions