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  1. mikecc's Avatar
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       #1  
    For those who are long time Treo users, you know Palm has made this a very reliable product. But why there are so many people keep complaining their Treos don't work the way they expected? and some features are not working properly, causing resets numerous times? Is Palm the only one to blame? Ask yourself what you have done to the Treo lately - have you always been taking good care of it? Have you intalled too many junk softwares? Everytime your Treo crashes, it's not always Palm's fault. Software engineers are supposed to make their programs work pefectly with Palm, not the other way around.
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  2. #2  
    Agreed.
    Most casual users probably don't have the problems we encounter because they may not be doing as much as we are to the devices.
  3. ediamond's Avatar
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    #3  
    I think the question is, do Palm's products live up to their promise? Should I expect a device that has enough power to last more than 6 hours, when a normal workday is 8 or more? Should I expect Palm's products to work out of the box without having to learn about and do the "battery reset trick?" Should I expect Palm's products to keep up with their competitors in terms of features and form factor?

    I blame Palm for the things that are Palm's fault: a lack of innovation, products that are not updated to fix bugs often enough; for not supporting their developers properly (that "junk software" you talk about is someone's product, that might not be so junky if Palm's developer program offered more support to developers.) Products that are downgraded in quality rather than upgraded (680 was a huge disappointment over the 650). I blame them for promising software that never materializes (how long did it take to get blackberry compatibility?)

    As far as Treo reliability, I would say that if not for this forum I would have thrown my treos out long before i actually did. You want reliability? Nokia, Samsung are reliable products. Build quality is excellent, form factor is sleek and gets better with each iteration. I have had to reset my Nokia E61i exactly once in the 8 months I've had it.
  4. webedc's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikecc View Post
    Software engineers are supposed to make their programs work pefectly with Palm, not the other way around.
    While I agree that we should not blame Palm on everything, I cannot agree to the statement above. Palm is responsible to come up with an OS that you can load crappy apps and won't crash the system by isolating memory space for each app as an example. I know this may be too much to ask for with the technology that we have. But at least this should be a goal of an OS - mobile or desktop or server. If not, finger pointing is always there.

    If you visit some forums which are foucsed on the 3rd party app development for PalmOS, you'll find a lot of frustrations among the PalmOS app developers. In fact, most of the PalmOS 3rd party app developers have superior skills to other platforms' because you really have to jump through hoops to get something 'simple' done. (I don't really know how to elaborate in this short post. Sorry.) All I'm trying to say here is that it's not a simple thing as "it is" or "it is not" Palm's fault.
    Last edited by webedc; 08/31/2007 at 02:54 PM.
    T R E O s t i l l R O C K S - to a certain extent
    Current: AT&T Tilt/HTC 8925/Kaiser
    Retired: AT&T Treo 750, VZW Treo 650, 700p, *700w, *700wx (* = loaner phone from Palm)
    Tried: AT&T Samsung Blackjack i607
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikecc View Post
    For those who are long time Treo users, you know Palm has made this a very reliable product. But why there are so many people keep complaining their Treos don't work the way they expected? and some features are not working properly, causing resets numerous times? Is Palm the only one to blame? Ask yourself what you have done to the Treo lately - have you always been taking good care of it? Have you intalled too many junk softwares? Everytime your Treo crashes, it's not always Palm's fault. Software engineers are supposed to make their programs work pefectly with Palm, not the other way around.
    I agree, everytime I have had reset issues, it was always the result of some application with a problem. Instead of ignoring random resets, I would look for the cause. I have had times where finding the cause was difficult but in the end I always end up with a reset free TREO. Its not until I push the limits with some new software that I run into problems again.

    Battery life. If you're push e-mail to your phone every five minutes, it never rests. The more important question would be why do you need your e-mail every five minutes. And if you you have a good reason, then you need something with more power than a TREO.

    As for innovation in a portable device, I still can do more with my TREO than anyone around me with their i-whatever or windows. TREO invented the smartphone category.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by webedc View Post
    While I agree that we should not blame Palm on everything, I cannot agree to the statement above. Palm is responsible to come up with an OS that you can load crappy apps and won't crash the system by isolating memory space for each app as an example. I know this may be too much to ask for with the technology that we have. But at least this should be a goal of an OS - mobile or desktop or server. If not, finger pointing is always there.

    If you visit some forums which are foucsed on the 3rd party app development for PalmOS, you'll find a lot of frustrations among the PalmOS app developers. In fact, most of the PalmOS 3rd party app developers have superior skills to other platforms' because you really have to jump through hoops to get something 'simple' done. (I don't really know how to elaborate in this short post. Sorry.) All I'm trying to say here is that it's not a simple thing as "it is" or "it is not" Palm's fault.
    and despite all this... some manage to write strong reliable crash free apps.

    Lucky I guess
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by RICHINMJ View Post
    TREO invented the smartphone category.
    This is really questionable.

    Surur
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by RICHINMJ View Post
    The more important question would be why do you need your e-mail every five minutes. And if you you have a good reason, then you need something with more power than a TREO.
    because of certain professions, some users actually need their email/text communication on a real time basis. and you're right, that's why RIM has done so well over time and why the company still exists.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  9. #9  
    I blame palm for the slow, almost dead, response to their competitors when it comes to release new, updated smart phones. I WANT to get a new phone but can't because palm is only offering older phones.

    ET
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    This is really questionable.

    Surur

    I agree. Kyocera could have at least some claim to that. Treo's are more stable than my 7135 was which lasted all of 2 weeks before I was upgraded to the 650.
  11. #11  
    I agree with mikecc on this. I think palm has been innovating. My 1st palm device was a Kyocera 6035 and the some samsungs and starting with the Treo 300 - 600 - 650 -680-700wx (An experience I'd rather forget) and the 755.

    Each incarnation has gotten better and faster with more memory and we keep asking more and more from them. I couldn't do half the stuff on my 300 that I'm doing on my 755. Of course I want the perfect device, but as soon as you get everything you want, you'll want more.

    Wifi? The call will go out for broadband!

    Do everything out of the box? I've never had a new computer, mac or pc that came with everything I wanted out of the box! Then I push those systems and find I need more memory, more power ande oops... I have to restart the thing.
  12. Brjlk's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikecc View Post
    Everytime your Treo crashes, it's not always Palm's fault. Software engineers are supposed to make their programs work pefectly with Palm, not the other way around.
    Many times developers complain that they don't get enough API documentation from Palm. Maybe this is a reason they cannot fully control the software they write.

    John
    Leonardo, Listpro, Agendus12, Phone Magic, Adarian Money, Ultrasoft Money, Lightwave 2.4

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  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    This is really questionable.

    Surur
    Yeah it is questionable for sure, Kyocera, Nokia and everyone else was taking us there slowly but it was the TREO that had all waiting for the next latest greatest for quite some time. Besides, I forgot to mention that it was the
    i-Phone that invented the smartphone category way back in June 2007. That is what historians will have us believe.
  14. wysiwyg's Avatar
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    #14  
    I own Apple computers. I think Palm and the other makers of SmartPhone devices need to support the MAC world better. I had to hard reset my 755 earlier this week because for some reason it would not sync and the VoiceDial program was hanging it up. Their is a known issue with VoiceDial syncing with MAC and this issue been around for years. So, Manufacturers and Software developers need to support PC and Apple. As of last week Apple has 17.6% share of the laptop business.
  15. #15  
    I don't own Apple computers.
  16. #16  
    I wish LOTS of things had more Mac support too!!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikecc View Post
    ... Everytime your Treo crashes, it's not always Palm's fault. Software engineers are supposed to make their programs work pefectly with Palm, not the other way around.
    Hello ?!? This is 2007. We've known how to properly architect and write a PROTECTED OS for a couple of decades now. Given properly designed and functioning hardware, there is NO excuse for any OS to crash... ever...

    Just because Palm is finally getting what a modern, multitasking, protected OS is all about, doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve "blame" for its naivete or its lame antiquated P.O.S. known as POS... btw, OS issues should not be confused with UI/user level issues...
    Last edited by neurocutie; 09/02/2007 at 12:22 AM.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by RICHINMJ View Post
    ... TREO invented the smartphone category.
    Treo 180 - 2002.
    Qualcomm Smartphone pdQ - 1999
    IBM Simon Smartphone - 1992
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikecc View Post
    For those who are long time Treo users, you know Palm has made this a very reliable product. But why there are so many people keep complaining their Treos don't work the way they expected? and some features are not working properly, causing resets numerous times? Is Palm the only one to blame? Ask yourself what you have done to the Treo lately - have you always been taking good care of it? Have you intalled too many junk softwares? Everytime your Treo crashes, it's not always Palm's fault. Software engineers are supposed to make their programs work pefectly with Palm, not the other way around.
    i see it the other way round for the following reasons:
    • had i relied on real player my music hearing pleasure would have been frustratingly limited
    • without tcpmp, I'd hardly be able to watch videos
    • 3rd party security software is undeniable better than anything that palm offers
    • versa mail is rubbish
    • palms own search option is useless, here too 3rd party software is necesary
    • not tampering with the rom would have limited my 650's capacity to 1 gigabyte or something useless


    the list is endless, you power users will agree

    ......and palm does nothing to natively support that what we squeeze out by tweaking away and risking phone bricking.

    my palm is stable and useful thanks to non-palm software. i cannot understand why palm itself doesnt offer us such solutions.

    i thank palm for the treo and i thank this forum and 3rd party software engineers and pioneer rom manipulators for making my treo as good as it is.
  20. swagner's Avatar
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    #20  
    No, palm did not invent the smartphone. My Kyo 7135 was a great phone for its time. Still, the treo, along with Blackberry have made the smartphone what it is qith 2 different philosophies. There is not nearly as much software or the BB and they only recently added a few devices with expandable memory.

    Regardless, other than form factor (which we have seen can be better, eg, Curve, Q, etc), battery life, and wifi; what can't your palm do? I read ebooks, listen to audio, watch video both streaming and recorded, read and respond to email, edit office docs, play games, and use it as a phone with text and mms. This is by far more than my first laptop could do.

    Yes the iPhone is a design marvel and the interface is nice. I prefer a real keyboard. Palm OS is outdated? Yes.. and No. Should it be more stable, sure, but so should windows!

    I am not saying the OS doesn't need some updating, but honestly, with the software out there I do not know of a device that can do much more (although a few can do as much). The hardware was innovative when the treo came out and is still respectable. There is the attitude "why mess with a good thing" The corvette has not changed other than small refinements in a few years and is still beautiful. If you ask me, Palm is ok.

    That does not mean I wouldnt like to see a Treo as slim as a Q, or an interface as easy to use as the iPhone. But I recently went from a 650 to a 755 and looked at many options, including the Q and BB. After careful consideration, I went with the 755.

    Of course this all just MHO. Good luck to us all!
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