Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 85
  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
    Not sure what the assembler has to do with it. The Treo is designed in Silicon Valley (Sunnyvale). The streets of Tapei are littered with assemblers (HTC, Inventec, Quanta, Che Mei (CMCS) etc). I could assemble a Treo in my garage with the correct resources (parts, schematics etc), but not design one.

    If you're comparing the innovativeness of Palm's Engineering Dept versus HTC's Magic Labs in designing prowess, then that's a different question.



    Dash is not a touch-sensitive screen, Treo is. If you don't have to incorporate a sensor layer in the screen, it's much easier to make it thinner. Difficult to compare apples & oranges....


    Are you SURE the Treos are still "designed in Silicon Valley (Sunnyvale)"? The Treo 600 WAS designed by Handspring in 2001-2 in Silicon Valley. The subsequent versions (650, 700, 750, 680, 755) are all minor variations on the 600, as Palm elected to amortize investment in the 600 design by holding off on introducing a new form factor. There are people in the industry who would suggest that Palm has now become a brand name that contracts out to Taiwanese production houses for help in both manufacturing and design. Palm realizes that it is too small to compete with bigger companies in designing completely new form factors every year or two. From a financial point of view it simply makes more sense to outsource everything to HTC or Inventec and then load either Palm's own OS or a customized version of Windows Mobile onto either generic Taiwanese hardware or else a Taiwanized version of the Treo 600. Do you think the Centro was "designed in Silicon Valley (Sunnyvale)"? See if you can figure out who is manufacturing the Centro and if they have another generic cell phone in that particular form factor.

    Palm is now little more than a Value Added Reseller that is busy hawking someone else's design (Handspring, Inventec, HTC), hardware (Inventec, HTC) and OS (Windows Mobile, Access). This strategy is a house of cards waiting to collapse. So far, the House of Palm has withstood a few puffs of air (HTC going into competition with Palm, the Cobalt nightmare, losing control of PalmOS, delays in development of PalmLinux, instability of PalmOS 5, Quality Control issues and a lack of staff capable of supporting the operating systems used by Palm), but the iPhone, HTC and RIM are turning into big breaths of (fresh) air that might bring everything crashing down. Meanwhile, the PalmLinux glue needed to cement Palm's infrastructure is not yet ready for use. If only Palm's management had developed a sense of urgency about the situation back in 2005. Instead, Emperor Colligan diddled - I mean fiddled - while Sunnyvale burned.

    Re: the issue of device thickness - in the past, because PPC editions have touchscreens while Smartphone editions don't, the Smartphone editions were thinner. Now modern touchscreens can be pretty thin and still rugged enough to go into a cell phone. The Treo's (large) thickness is more about inertia in form factor than an absolute need to be that thick.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Chupacabra View Post
    Do you think the Centro was "designed in Silicon Valley (Sunnyvale)"? See if you can figure out who is manufacturing the Centro and if they have another generic cell phone in that particular form factor.
    I was refering to the Treo 750 (which the poster whom I quoted had mentioned), not the Centro. Nonetheless, if you're asking whether I think the Centro is related to the HTC Iris 100, I don't believe so, nor do the FCC or ADT (who did the SAR testing on it) documents which I reviewed indicate as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Chupacabra View Post
    Palm is now little more than a Value Added Reseller that is busy hawking someone else's design (Handspring, Inventec, HTC), hardware (Inventec, HTC) and OS (Windows Mobile, Access).
    I respectfully disagree. They may add to their lineup by re-branding some other OEM's offerings, but it won't be their core business. Inventec doesn't design anything. LOL, that's like saying the iPod is Inventec's design which Apple is just re-branding. If one goes that route, then you must give credit to Dopod for HTC's PDA's. It's a moot point citing Inventec though, cause their going down. Their top execs are going to Chinese prison for failing to disclose that Apple cut its orders with them, and traded on the inside information.

    I have no vested interest either way, but I think Palm will be just fine. In fact, I think people will be impressed by their re-invigoration by 2009. Give the iPod designer, and ex-Apple management, time to spin their magic and dust out the old cobwebs of 3com, current management and losing Palm Source's in-house expertise.

    HTC is the real house of cards....
    Last edited by cinealta; 08/27/2007 at 10:12 PM.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
    I was refering to the Treo 750 (which the poster whom I quoted had mentioned), not the Centro. Nonetheless, if you're asking whether I think the Centro is related to the HTC Iris 100, I don't believe so, nor do the FCC or ADT (who did the SAR testing on it) documents which I reviewed indicate as such.



    I respectfully disagree. They may add to their lineup by re-branding some other OEM's offerings, but it won't be their core business. Inventec doesn't design anything. LOL, that's like saying the iPod is Inventec's design which Apple is just re-branding. If one goes that route, then you must give credit to Dopod for HTC's PDA's. It's a moot point citing Inventec though, cause their going down. Their top execs are going to Chinese prison for failing to disclose that Apple cut its orders with them, and traded on the inside information.

    I have no vested interest either way, but I think Palm will be just fine. In fact, I think people will be impressed by their re-invigoration by 2009. Give the iPod designer, and ex-Apple management, time to spin their magic and dust out the old cobwebs of 3com, current management and losing Palm Source's in-house expertise.

    HTC is the real house of cards....

    Dig a little deeper.

    Palm is no longer "designing" anything and hasn't for a while now. This will be made abundantly clear later this year.

    How long do you think it would take before an "Elevation-inspired" device could be designed, prototyped, alpha tested, beta tested, carrier tested and FCC approved? Remember, this is now almost the final quarter of 2007. Palm's 2009 lineup has already been set. Failing to plan 18 months in advance would be quite foolhardy on Palm's part. The only thing the Elevation deal will do is burn through Palm's cash reserves even faster than before.
  4. #64  
    Palm's a small company (relative to their global competition). I know they want to lean, more and more, on their ODM's. Their backs were against the wall, and they didn't see the other 2 choices as viable:

    1) Invest everything in R&D, and compete for American engineering talent
    2) Limit product development to a single niche product only

    But to hand the keys to the Treo over to Asian partners, is a bit much (Centro maybe). Palm still retains design engineering to aspects well-suited to their core competencies. They may hand over other elements. But core design is still done in Sunnyvale. When I say design, what is truly meant is intergration of software, technology and application (kind of like Apple) into a consumer device. I don't mean engineering a battery door to fit within a certain tolerance etc. HTC & Inventec could easily do that.

    Palm's not stupid to give away its IP and create more competitors from outsourcers, but to compete with the Nokia, HTC, RIM et al, they need to leverage the Asian ODM's. IP is the commodity, not design/manufacturing. Trust me, there's a lot more wealth in Atherton & Woodside than in the neighborhood next to Chiang Kai Shek airport.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
    HTC is the real house of cards....
    How so? They seem to be successfully pulling an Acer, going from ODM to OEM with their own brand.

    Quote Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
    Trust me, there's a lot more wealth in Atherton & Woodside than in the neighborhood next to Chiang Kai Shek airport.
    We can actually compare HTC's design skills with Palm's, as HTC makes many devices which they have designed themselves and sell either own-brand or re-branded. Only a small part of HTC's full range of devices gets seen in the USA. They have consistently innovated form factors and control features, and have only recently started, with touchflo, to address the OS also. Wherever HTC's design house is, its certainly a lot more productive than Palm's.

    Surur
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
    Trust me, there's a lot more wealth in Atherton & Woodside than in the neighborhood next to Chiang Kai Shek airport.

    Looking at what the US trade deficit is with the Far East (specifically China) , I wonder how long it will be before Woodside becomes a slum for America's new Asian masters.

    I don't think people realize how much of the American economy has been given away to the Chinese as businesses look for a quick buck. Try to find ANYTHING these days (besides high end goods) not made in China. I went to CompUSA yesterday and was shocked to see that most of Canon's and Sony's digital cameras are now being made in China. And the quality shows. Pure crap.

    I won't shatter your delusion that you're under that Palm actually "designs" anything these days.
  7. #67  
    And by the way:
    Where the hell is the clue to overwhelm US markets with new devices one after another and let Europeans stick with a Treo 680 and some WM devices?
    Is it so difficult to build a phone either supporting both mobile networks or at least building two versions of the phone? Nokia, Motorola, whoever can manage it. Why not Palm?

    It's very annoying being a Palm fanatic since the first our, but sitting here in Europe being stuck to "old" phone models...

    There is really space for improvement here also from a sales point of view, since Western Europe is quite a "rich" part of this world with a lot of geeks like me, spending a lot of money for the best in class devices...

    Just my opinion...
    McYoda
    Greets
    McYoda
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Palm Pilot Professional -> HandEra TRG Pro -> Tungsten T3 -> Treo 650 GSM Unlocked -> Treo 680 GSM Unlocked
    May the force be with you and your Treo
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Only a small part of HTC's full range of devices gets seen in the USA. They have consistently innovated form factors and control features, and have only recently started, with touchflo, to address the OS also. Wherever HTC's design house is, its certainly a lot more productive than Palm's.

    Surur
    True. Good points to keep in mind.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Chupacabra View Post
    I don't think people realize how much of the American economy has been given away to the Chinese as businesses look for a quick buck. Try to find ANYTHING these days (besides high end goods) not made in China. I went to CompUSA yesterday and was shocked to see that most of Canon's and Sony's digital cameras are now being made in China. And the quality shows. Pure crap.

    I won't shatter your delusion that you're under that Palm actually "designs" anything these days.
    All good points. I base my notion that Palm still designs its products, in house, on publically available info. If they no longer do that, then you know something they haven't publically stated.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by McYoda View Post
    There is really space for improvement here also from a sales point of view, since Western Europe is quite a "rich" part of this world with a lot of geeks like me, spending a lot of money for the best in class devices...
    Yes, your'e right. Lots of rooms for improvement.
  11. #71  
    Sadly, I don't think palm knows how to innovate anymore. The last real innovation to the Treo lineup was the 600, which was from handspring, not palm. Look at Palm's recent 'innovation.' The 'say what?' Fooleo and the apparently unusable keyboard on the new kiddie phone. The first is an answer to a question no one was asking, and the 2nd is only a useful smartphone if you also have the first. But who's going to spend $99 ona phone and then turn around and spend $500 to get a usable keyboard?

    I've been a palm user sine the monochrome Palm III. And when it comes to productivity software, there's barely any difference between that device and the latest Treo. Even in the PDA market, Sony was more innovative than Palm. Why do I have to pay 3rd party vendors to get a decent calendar, task manager, launcher, and other key tools? Why do I have to go to outside to get utility software to make the Treo do things that $100 cell phones do? If Pimlico, Hobbyist, and other ISVs can create this functionality, why can't Palm?

    I hope for a resurgence, but expect a slow decline into irrelevence. Palm seems to lack any understanding of what customers expect, and where the market is going.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    The first is an answer to a question no one was asking, and the 2nd is only a useful smartphone if you also have the first. But who's going to spend $99 ona phone and then turn around and spend $500 to get a usable keyboard?
    Not to challenge your main assertion, but in regards to the Centro's keyboard, we've only had 1 person actually report on it and who said it was nearly unusable. I think until a few others get to actually test one, we should keep in mind that this could be either an exception (the person has large hands, lol) or an oversimplification.

    The first time I saw a T650 I thought how absolutely ridiculous it looked with all of this tiny keys. No way could that thing actually be useful! Then, I swear to god, someone lost their Treo and I found it. Of course now that I actually got to handle one and play with the KB, it totally changed my mind.

    I'm not saying that will be the case with the Centro, but I'm leaving that open.

    Obviously, the Foleo has lots of people against and some very much for it, but that won't sort itself out till it's released. I also never thought what 90% of my smartphone could do would be necessary either.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Not to challenge your main assertion, but in regards to the Centro's keyboard, we've only had 1 person actually report on it and who said it was nearly unusable. I think until a few others get to actually test one, we should keep in mind that this could be either an exception (the person has large hands, lol) or an oversimplification.

    The first time I saw a T650 I thought how absolutely ridiculous it looked with all of this tiny keys. No way could that thing actually be useful! Then, I swear to god, someone lost their Treo and I found it. Of course now that I actually got to handle one and play with the KB, it totally changed my mind.

    I'm not saying that will be the case with the Centro, but I'm leaving that open.

    Obviously, the Foleo has lots of people against and some very much for it, but that won't sort itself out till it's released. I also never thought what 90% of my smartphone could do would be necessary either.
    if i can type pretty darn well on a Pearl i'm sure the Centro would be no more of a challenge, unless that is the Centro's keys are even smaller than a Pearl's and i doubt it.

    i think the keyboard will work plenty fine for many. what they need to do is work on is its looks.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  14. #74  
    The blurry white one was "gut bucket ugly", but the new (black) one isn't half bad. It's likely not the phone for me, but I thought it looked fairly attractive for the general public.

    Although it's hard to judge from the pics, the keys did look a little more cramped now that it's not in the "smile" shape. They may end up being about like today's Treos (which are fine with me - 6'1")
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    I've been a palm user sine the monochrome Palm III. And when it comes to productivity software, there's barely any difference between that device and the latest Treo. Even in the PDA market, Sony was more innovative than Palm. Why do I have to pay 3rd party vendors to get a decent calendar, task manager, launcher, and other key tools? Why do I have to go to outside to get utility software to make the Treo do things that $100 cell phones do? If Pimlico, Hobbyist, and other ISVs can create this functionality, why can't Palm?
    But I'd LOVE to see the ROI on palm's OS 5.

    It's been around since the Palm III... right?
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  16. #76  
    actually, I think the P III was OS4, but the functional differences are small
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    actually, I think the P III was OS4, but the functional differences are small
    I know, Brother, I was joking...

    Although, I would bet they have had some serious ROI on the product...

    Another lame joke: I bet palm was about the only company that did not have an "inside joke" about Vista being late.
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  18. #78  
    My IIIxe was OS3.5.
  19. #79  
    Oh yeah? well my palm III os was 2.5. so there!
  20. #80  
    Perry is gone. He would not recognize a Treo 800 or 900 if he fell over it. The really sad part is that neither would Palm. 2008, Dieter? 2007, game over. Palm is now nothing more than a curiosity.

    Thank god for Apple.
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions