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  1. #81  
    Nobody will buy Palm now. Elevation attempted to get additional VC to fund a full buy-out, but the deal fell through -- too much risk. And with the $400M debt Elevation forced Palm to take on, they've gutted the cash value of the company. All that is left for a potential buyer is intellectual property -- and with the cancellation of the Foleo and announcement of another 12+ months for the next OS, there isn't a lot of IP left at Palm...
  2. #82  
    Realization has set in...
    On 8/23 you said:
    Quote Originally Posted by cadman
    I am tired of reading posts about palm being dead.
    The company is not going anywhere. It will still be here in five years.
    They put out a buggy product, but it still functions.
    Please everyone stop with the palm is dead, they stink, etc. threads. Its getting old real fast.
    Then on 9/15:

    Quote Originally Posted by cadman View Post
    I'm starting to feel as if palm is the Netscape of today.
    1. Denial: "This can't be..."
    2. Anger: "This is so unfair..."
    3. Bargaining: "I'll do anything to bring back - ..."
    4. Depression: "I can't bear this sadness..."
    5. Acceptance: Not necessarily an easy acceptance...

    I believe he has reached #5.

    One question, what is Netscape?
    I find it sad/odd that people ask to be thanked. How genuine is it when you have to ask? It's like forcing your kid to call Grandma, to thank her for the new underwear she sent for their birthday.

    "To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.
    -Jack Handy, SNL-


  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by omnigo View Post
    Palm's strength is still in its core PDA software, not in its implementation of Windows Mobile. The core Palm applications are still easier to use than anything else out there.
    If this is true, then why the !@#$ is Palm messing with the 500v in yet another distraction away from its core strengths, producing yet another WM QWERTY phone in an already crowded market ? It still has fantasies being a cutting edge *hardware* designer (NOT!), instead of capitalizing on its few remaining unique strengths ?
  4. #84  
    Palm needs money, especially after the Foleo flop. WM phones will usually sell. But I said this before long ago, it's really sad how Palm sold it's soul to MSFT.

    It just about threw it's own OS to the wayside.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  5. ~Q~
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    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Palm needs money, especially after the Foleo flop. WM phones will usually sell. But I said this before long ago, it's really sad how Palm sold it's soul to MSFT.

    It just about threw it's own OS to the wayside.
    Palm just got a big infusion of money. I don't think money is an issue for them right now. Jeff Hawkins was quoted mid-summer, or so, saying something along the lines of "We have lots of money..." Their issue right now is developing a platform to replace the well past its prime Garnet. The problem with development is that money is only part of the equation -- the other part being time. Palm is behind the eightball in this respect.

    M$ has all kinds of financial resources, yet they slip their projected timelines all of the time. This is because development isn't like building a house -- some things are simply unknown until you actually finish them.

    Palm didn't sell its soul to M$. If they didn't embrace WM, they'd have been in REALLY big trouble. As a computer developer/manufacturer (which palm is), you can't ignore the most popular operating system on the planet and expect to be competative. If this wasn't the case, then Macs wouldn't come with the ability to run Windows, would they?
    Last edited by ~Q~; 09/18/2007 at 12:49 AM.
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  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by cadman View Post
    I'm starting to feel as if palm is the Netscape of today.

    WOW, extremely powerful analogy. After saying that reminds me of all the former Netscape buildings I use to work down the block from back .bomb days. Its funny because where these netscape buildings were.. right further down the block is Palm Inc. Its walking distance of where I use to work at (Philips seminconductors). Which I worked in the hand-held division of developing a Palm-OS based product called "El Niño" which never made it to the market. But I gotta say that Netscape comment reallllllllllly made my eyes do this: O_O.

    I will cherish my hobbyist days of the palm dating back to the HandSpring were we hacked tweeked and tried new technologies. Unfortuantely my needs have grown more and more but heck, all i want is a stable device which they havent fixed. :/


    I dont want to sit here and rant because my post last nite was almost a rant but im glad my wife made me shut off my notebook. Its wasted energy which I don't want to get into.

    All I can say is best of luck to Palm. You're facing a big uphill battle against some fierce competition which has taken a big bite out of the Handheld Mobile market.
    Last edited by ncc1701p; 09/18/2007 at 11:15 AM.
    Greatest Treo Call Bug EVER!
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    Palm just got a big infusion of money. I don't think money is an issue for them right now. Jeff Hawkins was quoted mid-summer, or so, saying something along the lines of "We have lots of money..." Their issue right now is developing a platform to replace the well past its prime Garnet. The problem with development is that money is only part of the equation -- the other part being time. Palm is behind the eightball in this respect.

    M$ has all kinds of financial resources, yet they slip their projected timelines all of the time. This is because development isn't like building a house -- some things are simply unknown until you actually finish them.

    Palm didn't sell its soul to M$. If they didn't embrace WM, they'd have been in REALLY big trouble. As a computer developer/manufacturer (which palm is), you can't ignore the most popular operating system on the planet and expect to be competative. If this wasn't the case, then Macs wouldn't come with the ability to run Windows, would they?
    First, that came from Palm. You believe them? Of course they won't say they're hurting, people will take notice and may shy away even more. They didn't seem to stack up too well against RIM for one, and supposedly lost smartphone market share this last year.

    They had their OWN OS to develope into something better and instead threw it down the drain. We already had plenty of WM manufacturers. Of course it sold it's soul to MSFT. Look what's happened. They now are just another a MSFT phone maker. No wonder they can't concentrate on their own OS!!

    I had a feeling this was going to happen when they first put out the 700w. I saw the Palm OS go down the tubes right then and there. Why bother to continue seriously developing when you can just sell someone else's fully mature OS and still make money?

    Why will it take another year and half for the supposed Linux Palm OS to appear? Continually developing phones for MSFT is what I suspect. Once they agreed to do that, their own OS took a big back seat. And there's no guarantee that anything will even be ready in 18 months. Look at what happened with the supposed "5 yrs. in the making" Foleo!

    Palm may not die if it continues to make WM phones, for obvious reasons. But it's certainly only a shell of it's former self. I wonder how long it'll be before MSFT just buys it outright?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  8. ~Q~
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    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    First, that came from Palm. You believe them?
    This really is common knowledge now. Palm sold 25% of their company to Equity Partners for $325million in cash. $325million is not an insignificant amount of money. Palm has plenty of cash to do what they need to do now. They aren't hurting for money right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post

    They had their OWN OS to develop into something better and instead threw it down the drain. We already had plenty of WM manufacturers. Of course it sold it's soul to MSFT. Look what's happened. They now are just another a MSFT phone maker. No wonder they can't concentrate on their own OS!!
    Actually, they sold that too.... Remember the Palm One-Palm Source Split? Palm doesn't own Palm OS anymore, Access does. Palm may own some kind of rights to Garnet (POS), but they don't own the code.

    This is really a good thing. Palm shouldn't be in the operating system business. Most who try to get into this business fail.. I hope they build the next generation Treo POS on something like Windriver Linux. Palm really needs to concentrate on hardware design, the UI, and add-on software. Palm really needs to outsource all of the OS needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post

    I had a feeling this was going to happen when they first put out the 700w.
    I saw the Palm OS go down the tubes right then and there. Why bother to continue seriously developing when you can just sell someone else's fully mature OS and still make money?
    Phone_Diva, you are, respectfully, looking at this all wrong. Palm had to support Windows Mobile, not because it was better than Palm OS but because Windows Mobile was/is becoming a standard for certain mobile users. Palm supporting Windows Mobile is a good thing as it keeps them in the game. It doesn't matter what platform is better for a smartphone. Fact is, certain people will demand Windows Mobile simply because it is Windows/Microsoft.

    Why continue developing an OS with someone else already has one? Answer: Because your OS fits the needs of users that the other OS developer can't. Simply put, WM can fit the needs of some users and can't fit the needs of others. Legacy POS, which is why we are all here defending it. I believe POS II (based on Linux) can do it again. I only hope Palm gets it out there before a business like Apple files the void.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Why will it take another year and half for the supposed Linux Palm OS to appear? Continually developing phones for MSFT is what I suspect.
    I certainly hope not, for Palm's sake. They simply do not have the luxary of 18 months to come up with something new. Personally, I think Palm will come out with something in the next 6-8 months. Maybe it won't be the POS II we are all thinking of, but it will be something new.

    However, Palm needs to continue to support WM to stay in the game. This is not a negative move for Palm. It is very much a positive move as it keeps Palm hardware out there and in the mainstream while they work on their secret weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post

    Palm may not die if it continues to make WM phones, for obvious reasons. But it's certainly only a shell of it's former self. I wonder how long it'll be before MSFT just buys it outright?
    No, Palm will not be a shell of its former self as long as they continue to develop industry leading handheld computers. Yes, they are falling behind in recent months, but I have confidence they'll turn this around

    As to M$ buying out Palm.... M$ hasn't bought out Dell even though Dell is the largest PC retailer in the US... Why is that? Dell knows how to play the M$ game. I believe Palm knows how to play this game as well.

    Keep the faith in Palm.
    Last edited by ~Q~; 09/19/2007 at 12:22 AM.
    Criterion 300>CMT>Huskey Hunter>Handspring Visor>Juniper Allegro>Palm Tungsten>TDS Recon>Treo 650>Treo 700P>Treo 755P>Blackberry Pearl

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  9. #89  
    We'll have to agree to disagree about WM. That and dumping their OS was absolutely the worst thing they did IMO. They gave away the identity that made them stand out, and now they are MSFT puppets. And the bad thing about it is, using WM shows the age of the lacking Garnet. Now I'll never go back to the Palm OS unless it's truly a new one. And by that time, a new and improved WM7 might be out at the rate things are going! That could dig Palm OS further into a hole, people may not want to go back to Palm OS after using a robust WM. Only the die hard Palm OS fans.

    Palm has no new OS in quite a few years, hasn't truly innovated in quite some time, apparently doesn't do enough product research or something before releasing products(Foleo, Lifedrive, 700w/700p problems) and now makes MSFT products to stay alive. But you say it's not a shell of it's former self? When Palm was Handspring, did any of this happen? That was what attracted me to the Palm OS in the first place, Handspring and Sony NOT using WM. But when they went with WM, they're no longer unique, and there's no reason to buy Treos alone when many others provide WM phones. Except for brand loyalty and the form factor. But that may or may not be enough.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  10. #90  
    Phone Diva: I'm not sure how Palm not embracing WM devices would have made POS look and feel any better to the users (is that what you're saying?). You're right in that it will be very hard for people like me to go back to POS once we have become used to WM, but it has nothing to do with Palm having WM devices or not - it has to do with Garnet being the abandoned mess it is.

    I would love to see a POS II appear (although I doubt it by now, to be honest), and I really hope it's actually decent (another big if), but I now see Palm as mostly a hardware company. They have the best basic form factor in the industry as far as I'm concerned, as well as the knowledge to apply their "secret sauce" to smeone else's OS to make it truly usable, and that should be enough for any company to thrive is they do things well.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by ncc1701p View Post
    (Originally Posted by cadman)
    I'm starting to feel as if palm is the Netscape of today.

    WOW, extremely powerful analogy.
    Except that unlike Netscape, Palm has NO-ONE to blame but themselves. Yes, MS is still the 800lb gorilla, but I don't think MS did anything too terribly unfair in competing with Palm, unlike they did with Netscape. No, it was and continues to be Palm's boneheaded moves and inability to execute properly...

    And I agree with PhoneDiva, if Palm gives up its OS identity, it *will* be dead. It cannot survive as an also ran hardware company -- I believe it has amply proven that it simply cannot compete in the hardware arena, compared with HTC, Samsung, LG, even Motorola. And why is it that Apple can produce such a striking, winning piece of hardware (nevermind the excellent software) on its first offering ? No, Palm's saving grace has to be to go back to its roots and give the market another PalmOS that retains the great usability of Garnet, but with a more modern and robust foundation. If they had done this 3-4 years ago *like they had promised!* then MS/WM would not have gained the market share that they have, because frankly WM isn't all that great from a usability standpoint (in fact I'd have to say that its just short of lousy). The only thing that saves WM is that there is nothing else (other than Symbian) and there are a fair number of useful apps and programs. But actually the OS itself is terrible from a usability standpoint.

    PalmOS *used* to be the number one OEM PDA/PDAphone OS, with OEMs like Samsung, Kyocera, etc. They simply failed to improve and upgrade the OS the way the market and OEMs need them to do (and the way that they had promised). This is their last chance. If they still can't deliver an improved PalmOS, I think they are dead.
  12. #92  
    How much do ya wanna bet that google develops its own new linux-based google phone BEFORE palm even finishes the linux platform, let alone a linux-based treo?!?!

    http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/19/d...anded-handset/


    lol. I'd put money down on it.
    Last edited by treobk214; 09/19/2007 at 02:32 PM.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    How much do ya wanna bet that google develops its own new linux-based google phone BEFORE palm even finishes the linux platform, let alone a linux-based treo?!?!
    Yup, I'm sure that's the case. And Access/ALP as well. Its particularly sad since Palm has had YEARS of a headstart -- Palm's been talking about Linux for at least 4 years, and the nextgen PalmOS for at least 6-7 years... with ZERO to show for it, just a bunch of screwing around...
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    How much do ya wanna bet that google develops its own new linux-based google phone BEFORE palm even finishes the linux platform, let alone a linux-based treo?!?!

    http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/19/d...anded-handset/


    lol. I'd put money down on it.
    Oh that's a given--Google will win that as they have the $$ and programmers to do it.

    But, the big question that is relevant is this: open or closed "platform"?

    I'm betting on closed--only Google apps, much like the iPhone. From a developmental perspective, that is much easier to instantiate than an open platform that also happens to be backwards compatible (!) with a pretty unstable system.

    Not saying that necessarily to defend Palm, but just to show we're probably talking about different levels of complexity here.

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  15. ~Q~
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    #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    We'll have to agree to disagree about WM. That and dumping their OS was absolutely the worst thing they did IMO. They gave away the identity that made them stand out, and now they are MSFT puppets. And the bad thing about it is, using WM shows the age of the lacking Garnet. Now I'll never go back to the Palm OS unless it's truly a new one. And by that time, a new and improved WM7 might be out at the rate things are going! That could dig Palm OS further into a hole, people may not want to go back to Palm OS after using a robust WM. Only the die hard Palm OS fans.
    The existence of Palm OS, even if Palm had kept it in-house, would not have stopped M$ from developing WM. IBM came out with OS/2 about the same time M$ started developing Windows. Did this stop M$? Apple created a Windows type operating system (i.e., Mac version 1) when M$ was still tripping around with DOS. Did this stop M$ from creating Windows? Nope.

    When POS first came out, Palm was the only player in a very very small market. That market has grown significantly in recent years and so have the players. These new players were going to get into this market regardless of what Palm is/was doing. Frankly, I 'm suprised that POS is still alive at all and hasn't gone the way of OS/2.

    My point is, WM was coming -- like it or not. If Palm had chosen not to support it, their user base would have shrunk signficantly. This has nothing to do with how good WM is versus POS. It is because M$ WM is becoming a standard, just like alot of other M$ software. Example: There are alot of Wordperfect lovers out there that can't use Wordperfect ONLY because everyone they work with/for are using M$ Word. For these people Wordperfect is a much better application than M$ Word, but they use M$ Word anyway.

    To coin an old phrase "If you can't beat'em, join'em" Palm was NO WAY going to beat M$ in the Mobile Operating System market. Given that WM is quickly becoming a standard, Palm did what any wise business would have done: they joined'em.

    Palm needs to figure out a different way to get an edge up on the competition now instead of being the only one out there with a Mobile OS.
    Last edited by ~Q~; 09/19/2007 at 04:04 PM.
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  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    Palm needs to figure out a different way to get an edge up on the competition now instead of being the only one out there with a Mobile OS.
    That's exactly it. As "great" as POS was and everyone remembering it as being the best, fact was it was really your only choice at the time.

    POS was mostly a great idea never full carried through, imo.

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  17. #97  
    Nobody buying a new PC will get a Palm device. Period. There is no way to sync with vista. Enough said.
    Millions lost in marketshare everyday.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aviator View Post
    Nobody buying a new PC will get a Palm device. Period. There is no way to sync with vista. Enough said.
    Millions lost in marketshare everyday.
    (1) You mean any Palm OS device, as Palm WM devices sync with Vista

    (2) Isn't there a Vista compatible Hot Sync Manger already out (beta)?

    It was released on 7/25.

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  19.    #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aviator View Post
    Nobody buying a new PC will get a Palm device. Period. There is no way to sync with vista. Enough said.
    Millions lost in marketshare everyday.
    Completely false statement.
    I am able to sync before they issued a beta version of Palm desktop for vista and can sync faster now that they have a vista version.

    I only wish they would add to the palm os the feature where windows would see it as an external drive as well.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi View Post
    Phone Diva: I'm not sure how Palm not embracing WM devices would have made POS look and feel any better to the users (is that what you're saying?). You're right in that it will be very hard for people like me to go back to POS once we have become used to WM, but it has nothing to do with Palm having WM devices or not - it has to do with Garnet being the abandoned mess it is.

    I would love to see a POS II appear (although I doubt it by now, to be honest), and I really hope it's actually decent (another big if), but I now see Palm as mostly a hardware company. They have the best basic form factor in the industry as far as I'm concerned, as well as the knowledge to apply their "secret sauce" to smeone else's OS to make it truly usable, and that should be enough for any company to thrive is they do things well.
    What I mean is once Palm put it's OS by the wayside for WM support, it was at the expense of it's own identity and spelled doom for the OS. That was a huge mistake IMO. Or maybe it wasn't really a mistake. They could have either not cared enough or had no confidence in their own OS to keep supporting and advancing it. Either way, they subconciously have told the public and are still telling us "just use MSFT till we get our act together". So I did, and may not ever go back. Because WM5/WM6 improved over older versions, and shows the flaws of the old Garnet.

    You're absolutely right, Palm is a hardware company for WM now. So is HP, HTC, Samsung, etc. So much for standing out anymore. Palm will stay alive by kissing MSFT's , but it will never be the same again without it's alternative OS.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
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