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  1.    #1  
    2 days ago i purchased a nintendo ds lite:

    Size (closed): 133 millimeters (5.2 inches) wide, 73.9 millimeters (2.9 inches) long, 21.5 millimeters (0.85 inches) tall.
    Top Screen: A backlit, 3-inch, transmissive TFT color LCD with 256 x 192 pixel resolution and .24 mm dot pitch, capable of displaying 260,000 colors.
    Touch Screen: Same specs as top screen, but with a transparent analog touch screen.
    Wireless Communication: IEEE 802.11 and Nintendo’s proprietary format; wireless range is 30 to 100 feet, depending on circumstances; multiple users can play multiplayer games using just one DS game card.
    Controls: Touch screen, embedded microphone for voice recognition, A/B/X/Y face buttons, plus control pad, L/R shoulder buttons, Start and Select buttons. The stylus is 1 centimeter longer and 2 millimeters thicker than the stylus of the original Nintendo DS.
    Input/Output: Ports for both Nintendo DS game cards and Game Boy Advance game paks, terminals for stereo headphones and microphone. A removable cover for the Game Boy Advance game pak slot provides added protection from dust and other foreign materials.
    Other Features: Embedded PictoChat software that allows up to 16 users within local range of one another to chat at once; embedded real-time clock; date, time and alarm; touch-screen calibration.
    CPUs: One ARM9 and one ARM7.
    Sound: Stereo speakers providing virtual surround sound, depending on the software.
    Battery: Lithium ion battery delivering five to 19 hours of play on a four-hour charge, depending on use; power-saving sleep mode; AC adapter.
    Languages: English, Japanese, Spanish, French, German, Italian.


    it cost 129+ tax.


    this might of been discussed before, but what part of the treo makes it so expensive? i know these parts are cheaper (lower resolution screen exc.) it would just be intresting to know what actual parts make the phone so expensive.



    just getting back into the forums so if this has been discussed please disregard or just link me.


    thanks,


    -Grant
    Old Nokia - Nokia 3390 – Sidekick 1 (black and white) - Sidekick Color - Treo 600 - Sidekick 2 - Blackberry 7100t - Treo 650 and razr black (best combo EVER) Iphone 8gb - Iphone 3G 16gb - BlackBerry Bold
  2. #2  
    I think you could ask this about any WM or smartphone device.

    Look at the new HTC Cavalier: pretty standard WM smartphone, nothing fancy especially compared to your detailed list.

    Price: $565

    The HTC Advantage is $1,265
    Toshiba G900 = $843.00

    So I imagine part of that is licensing the OS, some of it is R&D, some of it is probably testing (FCC, carrier approval, etc.), some is profit, but honestly I don't have a specific answer. It just seems to be the way.

    Palm is only slightly more expensive here in the U.S. compared to other products of it's class. In comparison, I can say they are higher quality than HTC, so that differential makes some sense. But the overall cost for all of them? I don't know.

    I don't think BBs are very far off either...

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  3. #3  
    Its not price, its value Anyway, apparently a 30% + profit margin is normal in this industry.

    Surur
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Its not price, its value Anyway, apparently a 30% + profit margin is normal in this industry.

    Surur
    Which makes sense.

    I would imagine, though I don't know the details, Ninentdo makes most of it's money via licensing for their games. OEMs for phones have no such resource so they grab it out of the gates when you buy the device.

    They tend to eat the cost of the device itself to corner the market on game titles, just like MS did with the X-box (didn't they just start making a profit on their consoles only a few months ago?)

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  5. #5  
    Well, the phone part of it is a huge difference between your DS and a Treo. I mean, you can't find any phone out there for less than $100 new. I mean without rebates. Most new phones without rebates are at least $200. Then, you take WM5 and throw it on top of that. Everybody knows that Microsoft software is expensive. Then of course the quality control is a factor. The DS isn't built like a Treo is. The Treo is built better. Then of course they factor a tiny bit of the R&D costs into the phone, as well as the testing costs. Of course, there must be a profit margin included into the phone price.

    Your DS plays games. As far as I know, the WiFi on the DS is only used for playing multiplayer games. The Treo can play games, send and receive email, send and receive text messages, make and receive phone calls, create and edit documents, plus whatever else you can throw at it. Basically the Treo is like a computer in your hand, and it's well known that with computers, the smaller, the more expensive, even if it doesn't have all the features that the big ones have.
  6. tel0004's Avatar
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    #6  
    I can't comment specifically on the DS, but most games systems are sold at a loss, because they will make money selling games. Palm gets one shot to make some money so they mark it up. They may sell some accessories, but not to the extent that nintendo makes money off games. If you buy a DS, you will (hopefully) be buying games for the next several years, so its not a big deal to sell the system at a loss.

    (I'm just making these numbers up)
    A DS might cost 200 to make, and sell for 99.00, while a Treo might cost 300 to make and sell for 500. Nintendo will make 100.00 back once you buy a few games, and Palm will make 200.00 from the initial phone purchase, and may not get another dime from you until you upgrade 6-24 months from now.

    **I'm probably wrong, since Nintendo seldom subsidizes systems, I know they are making a killing off the Wii, while the 360 and PS3 are selling at huge losses, but at least its something to think about.
    Last edited by Tel0004; 07/24/2007 at 04:42 PM.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tel0004 View Post
    I can't comment specifically on the DS, but most games systems are sold at a loss, because they will make money selling games. Palm gets one shot to make some money so they mark it up. They may sell some accessories, but not to the extent that nintendo makes money off games. If you buy a DS, you will (hopefully) be buying games for the next several years, so its not a big deal to sell the system at a loss.

    (I'm just making these numbers up)
    A DS might cost 200 to make, and sell for 99.00, while a Treo might cost 300 to make and sell for 500. Nintendo will make 100.00 back once you buy a few games, and Palm will make 200.00 from the initial phone purchase, and may not get another dime from you until you upgrade 6-24 months from now.

    **I'm probably wrong, since Nintendo seldom subsidizes systems, I know they are making a killing off the Wii, while the 360 and PS3 are selling at huge losses, but at least its something to think about.
    This is generally true, but in fact Nintendo is famous for never making a loss on hardware. They always sell at a profit, which has kept them alive during the fallow PS2 dominance days.

    Also, the Windows Mobile OS is not expensive, its less that $15. At one point Palm was paying more for Garnet.

    Surur

    Edit: Just saw your edit
  8. #8  
    To give people a perspective, the Moto Q is supposed to cost only $158 in bill of material costs, and about the only difference between the Q and the Treo is the touch screen.

    Surur
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    To give people a perspective, the Moto Q is supposed to cost only $158 in bill of material costs, and about the only difference between the Q and the Treo is the touch screen.

    Surur
    Q gets poorer battery life, lower resolution, not even full wm, no touch screen, hardly and 3rd party apps yet. costs can be offset by other moto cell phones since sales of the razr have always been high.
    A pda costs between 100-300 dollars and a cell phone around 100. I think the treo is the best bang for the buck.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Its not price, its value Anyway, apparently a 30% + profit margin is normal in this industry.

    Surur
    Also, it'd be interesting to know the number of folks (even in here!) that have had their Treo replaced by their wireless service 1, 2 or 3 times for various reasons, often probably not really justified. Somebody's gotta pay those costs. It's us!

    -Frank
  11.    #11  
    All good points.

    i think its a mixture of:

    1. Money made from licensing for their games -
    treo makes none (all tho if they where smart they would have put more time
    into program development to have more of the market share back in the day)
    2. R&D - i think this has the same cost for both
    3. DS has much less memory much slower clock speed lower resolution screen
    As anything in technology the best always cost MUCH more then the 2nd best.
    4. Nintendo sells MUCH more ds's so they can afford to make less profit per
    unit.

    i also think that the treo and other smart phones have made the way for
    devices such as the DS


    I treat my devices like crap, so far the ds build seems very good.

    things that it has:

    you can use it as wifi if your laptop or computer does not have wireless
    (i would never use it but its cool)
    Short area connection 30-100 ft (they should trash IR and replace it with this!! works great!!)
    mp3 player
    movies (had it for a few months on the treo got over it)
    browser (suppose to poor ui)


    when you say the price of the treo remember the REAL price
    not the discount you get with contract

    680 $450
    755 $579
    700wx $649 +tax
    750 $649
    700p $619


    I just wonder at what point the treo/other smart phones will be
    like the ps3 where there is a huge gap between options.


    trust me i know all the functions of the treo.....
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Old Nokia - Nokia 3390 – Sidekick 1 (black and white) - Sidekick Color - Treo 600 - Sidekick 2 - Blackberry 7100t - Treo 650 and razr black (best combo EVER) Iphone 8gb - Iphone 3G 16gb - BlackBerry Bold
  12. #12  
    At safco field in seattle you can now use your ds lite to order food, beer, etc.
  13. ktm97's Avatar
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    #13  
    I think the bean counters also take into account how many units will be sold, does any one know how many treos are sold world wide compared to DS units/
  14. tel0004's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by ktm97 View Post
    I think the bean counters also take into account how many units will be sold, does any one know how many treos are sold world wide compared to DS units/

    Palm has sold 738,000 units Jan-March (source

    Nintendo Sells about 2.1-2.2 million units a quarter Source (PDF)


    plus, as I said before, profit isnt important on the DS, they will make it on the game sales. Many people may never buy any software or accessories for the treo from Palm.
  15. #15  
    Nintendo don't make money on the DS, it makes money back on the games. In fact, Nintendo probably lose money on every DSL sold.
  16. D-Bo's Avatar
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    #16  
    Meh, mine was free. Although I supposed I paid $175 for it in reality, since that was my ETF at Verizon. Although one could argue I'll get that back in data plan savings...
  17. #17  
    D-Bo? No avatar from the movie Friday?
    My 650 was free because the boss threw it on the floor and I picked it up and called my carrier and they replaced it while he went and spent money on a samsung smartphone.
    Attached Images Attached Images
  18. #18  
    I'm confused...is your boss Chamillionaire?
  19. D-Bo's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by cadman View Post
    D-Bo? No avatar from the movie Friday?
    That's my bike punk!! I'm lovin the Zues pic too!



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  20. #20  
    D-bo I agree with your signiture......whats up big worm?
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