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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by slbailey1 View Post
    What do you do if you want a device to replace your PDA, Phone, and MP3 player? What do you do if you want that same device to surf the web and have the HD space to store your entire music library?
    The Treo can pretty much do that now, although it would require a short stack of 8GB memory cards. Really, think about: a Treo and 10 memory cards can hold as much content as a video ipod. And play music and videos. And be my PDA, and manage my email, and surf the web, and give me dirctions (and even be a GPS), and do IM, and picture mail, and more. And it all fits in my pocket.

    Pretty darned impressive, wouldn't you say? And it's a combination of capabilities the iPhone can't provide.

    Edit: It's not too good at spell checking, though!
    Last edited by meyerweb; 07/20/2007 at 10:10 AM.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by slbailey1 View Post
    What do you do if you want a device to replace your PDA, Phone, and MP3 player? What do you do if you want that same device to surf the web and have the HD space to store your entire music library?
    You better add some qualifiers like "and still fit in your pocket" or you'll have the anti-apples giving everything from the Asus eeepc to laptops with an NAS
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post
    Well you have oft heard the reason why men buy big cars and buy sports cars ..... and the reason usually has to do with the word "compensation" and generally refers to shortcomings of an anatomical nature. For many, the argument is not whether the device fills their needs, it "whose is bigger".

    The Treo becomes part of many gadgeteer's identity. To many the gadget is not a tool to accomplish a set of tasks, it's a representation of oneself. If my gadget is very capable by inference, I must be giving the impression that I am very capable. Two guys sitting across from a conference table e-mailing xls files to one another has actually been given as a reason to have one of these devices. Most business owners / managers would consider it a reason for dismissal.

    The fact that their devices are not seen by all as being the "be all and end all" of gadgetdom is a personal affront which must be defended at all costs. Ever notice that statements by users who say "I don't need that" are most often answered by "What if you are...." statements rather than "I do this every day" statements

    Ever notice that people who "need these devices to efficiently squeeze their work into their very busy days" have time to post (are they thumb typing I wonder ?) repeated responses to threads challenging the universal superiority of their devices no matter whether you are the CEO of General Motors, the bus boy at McDonalds or unemployed ?
    This is f'ing ridiculous. My Treo's a tool, not a toy. That's why I don't replace it every 6 months or a year. Maybe you don't understand, or know how to get value out of, all the things a Treo can do, but don't let your limitations inform your opinion of what and how other's use their device.

    Actually, the fact that you feel the need to obfuscate the real issues by attacking people's motives and manhood tells me you're the one with the issue. Malatesta's response was both more accurate and more intelligent (but that's not very difficult).
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    i see that you just can't let it be, maybe it's you that really cares. but so very much like all the rest of your posts you have to interject a bit of derision to sway perception. i'm not on a rant, just trying to quell the continued stupidity.

    WM, robust core, pro-sumer. oem's......high end X device.......amd'ds, flash-liter interface......You think many consumers out there really care about this when they walk into their local provider retail store? again, i think many around here care, not the average consumer who is most probably responsible for the hefty percentage of all pda/smartphone/dumbphone device type sales (outside of the Blackberry of course

    hey, Mal....psst...."he never said it"...tell your friends.
    Hmm, if no ones cares about the technology why is Jobs making such a big deal out the fact that the iPhone runs OS X and Safari? Steve must think they care.

    But assume you're right that most of the market doesn't care about the underlying technology. They do, however, care about what they can do with it. When all the iPhone fanboys discover they can't reply to an email from a friend, and attach a picture to it, they're going to start to wonder just how wonderful that iPhone is. When they get a few hundred contacts in their adress book they're going to start cursing Jobs for not putting a search capability in it. The list could go on and on.

    But, just as some won't acknowlege the flaws in the Treo, it appears many won't acknoledge the flaws in an iPhone. When you spent way too much on the device, and are locked into a too expensive, too long contract, it's hard to admit something might be wrong, eh?
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    I think your opinion might change as rimm readies a new blackberry equipped with both wifi AND a camera. If it runs ev-do also, the contest is over. .
    Yea, give it a full qwerty keypad, touchscreen, fully functioning support for PalmOS apps, and sell it for $300 and Treo's done for.

    Sprint Pre & Motorola H300 BT headset

    Dead devices: Palm Pro; Palm III; Treo 600, 650, 700p, 755p; Centro
    Yes, I finally updated my tagline!
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    When they get a few hundred contacts in their adress book they're going to start cursing Jobs for not putting a search capability in it.

    i have hundreds of contacts, my finger does the walking. it's not difficult for me to do and quite easy to accept.

    it doesn't bother this user
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    I think your opinion might change as rimm readies a new blackberry equipped with both wifi AND a camera. If it runs ev-do also, the contest is over. .


    I will have to ebay my 8830 (Sprint) when the camera version comes out, hope they retain the world phone portion. Pefect unit almost. The 8830 needs voice control for applications!1
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post
    Well you have oft heard the reason why men buy big cars and buy sports cars ..... and the reason usually has to do with the word "compensation" and generally refers to shortcomings of an anatomical nature. For many, the argument is not whether the device fills their needs, it "whose is bigger".

    The Treo becomes part of many gadgeteer's identity. To many the gadget is not a tool to accomplish a set of tasks, it's a representation of oneself. If my gadget is very capable by inference, I must be giving the impression that I am very capable. Two guys sitting across from a conference table e-mailing xls files to one another has actually been given as a reason to have one of these devices. Most business owners / managers would consider it a reason for dismissal.

    The fact that their devices are not seen by all as being the "be all and end all" of gadgetdom is a personal affront which must be defended at all costs. Ever notice that statements by users who say "I don't need that" are most often answered by "What if you are...." statements rather than "I do this every day" statements

    Ever notice that people who "need these devices to efficiently squeeze their work into their very busy days" have time to post (are they thumb typing I wonder ?) repeated responses to threads challenging the universal superiority of their devices no matter whether you are the CEO of General Motors, the bus boy at McDonalds or unemployed ?
    This is one of the truest post I've ever read on this forum. I guess I always imagined a woman would have been the person to point this out. (No offense meant, Jack!) Well done.
    Blackberry 7520 (Nextel)> Palm 700p (Sprint)> Burgundy Palm 755p (Sprint w/sero)> HTC Touch (Sprint w/sero) Apps include: Touchpal, HTC Home Customizer, TCMCP
  9. #89  
    yes, i enjoy reading Jack's posts. logical and sensible, easy to understand, at least for this reader.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by Diana Prince View Post
    This is one of the truest post I've ever read on this forum. I guess I always imagined a woman would have been the person to point this out. (No offense meant, Jack!) Well done.
    The part I find most entertaining is [name your phone] haters searching the web for instances of posts with the obvious indications of such, repeating them here and not seeing themselves as guilty of the exact same behavior.....and of course the likelihood of their membership in this group will easily be measured by the ferocity of their response. Now one could read this and say "well I use my treo as a tool but I sure have met some people who meet Jacks's description.". The only way I can figure a response that denies the existence of this user subset (and this subset of users exists with all gadgets) is by someone who is in it.
    Last edited by JackNaylorPE; 07/20/2007 at 04:32 PM.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    This is f'ing ridiculous. My Treo's a tool, not a toy. That's why I don't replace it every 6 months or a year. Maybe you don't understand, or know how to get value out of, all the things a Treo can do, but don't let your limitations inform your opinion of what and how other's use their device.
    http://education.yahoo.com/reference...ary/entry/tool

    Tool definition: "Something regarded as necessary to the carrying out of one's occupation or profession"

    http://education.yahoo.com/reference...nary/entry/toy

    Toy definition: "Something of little importance; a trifle....An amusement; a pastime"

    Any tool in one hand is a toy in another. Take a step back and see the baselessness of your implications. No one in the histrory of smartphones ever used their devcie as a toy ? Dude .... I use a Treo. I use it to do work. It's almost 3 years old, I use it efficiently.

    I don't type 4 page memos on it. I don't use it when another tool can accomplish a task far better and faster. I don't sit in my office and use a cellphone when I have a land line available. I don't do e-mail on my treo when I'm in my office, a clients office, a hotel or anywere where I have access to a full size KB and screen. I don't sit in a movie theater with a BT device hanging off my ear. I don't out it on e-bay every time a new model comes out. Can you say that no treo users do any of those things ? If you are, I beg to differ.

    I use it as a tool when and only when it is the best tool for the job. I also use it as a toy. I play Sudoku on it for example. If you need a tool and use it, I have never had an issue there. I'm sorry but the peep who posted that he sits across the desk from his boss e-mailing each other spreadsheets is using it as a toy. That's not a productive use of a "tool". The person using his device to watch seinfeld reruns is using it as an entertainment / amusement device.....that is what a toy is isn't it ?

    A tool is something needed to get a job done. An mp3 player is not a tool unless you are studying music, a movie player is not a tool unless its an instructional video, a person who is e-mailing stuff to another person 3 feet away is not using a tool....he's entertaining himself. And games / entertainment are not tools.

    So yes, a Treo can be used as a tool, it can also be used as a toy. Some people use it as a tool.....some people use it both as a toy and a tool.....and some people just about always use it as a toy.

    The people who use it as a tool really don't much care about how other people use their devices. They are concentrating on getting their work done and don't much care how well the dude in the seat across from them on the bus gets theirs done. The people who use it as a toy do care very much because "having the best toys" is part of their identity. You can recognize some of them by the "He who dies with the most toys wins" bumper stickers.

    There's a very simple barometer of whether the use is as a tool or a toy. You have a "Badass Model G" phone. You want to convince your boss to pay for the new "Badass Model H" phone. Calculate the ROI and convince ya boss to make the purchase. If ya can, it's a tool purchase....if ya can't, it's a toy purchase. If ya answers include things like:

    -"The Model H has A2DP" - toy.

    -"The Model has e-mail and web access" and that has a legitimate job function related to your job - tool

    -"The Model has e-mail and web access" and that does not have a legitimate job function related to your job - toy

    Not everyone is employed in a capacity where it is critical that be able to be reached on a moments notice and that they respond accordingly. For many a plain old cell phone can not even be called a tool.

    Some years back I was VP of a large engineering firm that employed over 100 people. Here's a rough breakdown:

    Administrative / accounting - 12
    AutoCAD Designers - 18
    Staff Engineers - 30
    Field Engineers - 18
    Project Managers - 6
    Survey Crews - 18
    Executive - 6

    How many "needed" cellphones as a business tool ?

    Administrative / accounting - 0 never left office for business function, except to run errands
    AutoCAD Designers - 0 never left office for business function
    Staff Engineers - 0 never left office for business function
    Field Engineers - 0 rarely left office for business function
    Project Managers - 6 moving from project to project when on road
    Survey Crews - 6 one in each survey crew was given a phone
    Executive - 6 moving from client to client when on road

    There's nothing wrong with using a device as a tool and a toy .... claiming that entertaining yourself by e-mailing spreadsheets 3 feet away has a recognized "tool-like" function is only self delusion.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
    Traded off my Palm 700p for a Blackberry 8830. See ya Palm.
    If only we had some way of knowing how many defectors there have been in the last 90 days. IPhone aside, I see more and more people with Blackberry's even without a Blackberry server.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    Hmm, if no ones cares about the technology why is Jobs making such a big deal out the fact that the iPhone runs OS X and Safari? Steve must think they care.
    And Steve's announcement differed from Colligan's / Gates WM on the Treo announcement how ? I don't see Apple making a big deal outta anything. The media has made this monster not Apple. The iPod's domination of its market is news. Whether the iPhone will have a similar impact over the next few years is news.

    And I see far fewer "gee the iPhone is wonderful posts" than I see "the iPhoen sucks" posts....why are people feeling so threatened I wonder ?

    and are locked into a too expensive, too long contract, it's hard to admit something might be wrong, eh?
    When my son was deciding whether or not he was gonna get a Treo or get an iPhone .... here were his options under our family plan:

    Treo 680 $ 9.95/mo voice plan $19.95/mo unlimited data plan w/ 200 text messages....2 year contract

    Get iPhone $ 9.95/mo voice plan $19.95 / mo unlimited data plan w/ 200 text messages..... 2 year contract

    yeah...way to big a penalty on those service plans there versus the Treo isn't it ?

    Going on his own....

    Treo 680 $ 39.95/mo voice plan $19.95/mo unlimited data plan w/ 200 text messages....2 year contract

    Get iPhone $ 39.95/mo voice plan $19.95 / mo unlimited data plan w/ 200 text messages*..... 2 year contract

    again...way to big a penalty on those service plans there versus the Treo isn't it ?

    * data plan not available at purchase.....AT&T web site doesn't have MediaMax listed as option for Treo any more only PDA personal at $39.95 a month. So unless we can still finagle MediaMax as we have been doing last 3 years, the Treo could potentially be $20 more a month.

    He could go Verizon....nearest signal 1.5 miles away or Sprint nearest signal about 3 miles away .

    As for the price, the going rate for the 650 with a 2 year contract was $399 when it came out and another $150 or so for that 2 GB SD card.....so we were into it for $550.....not a far cry from the iPhone. The 750's price is about $399 w/ 2 year contract (plus whatever rebates Palm is running which have been getting quite huge of late for some reason). Add in $100 for that 8 GB SD card and ya at $500. Considering the features, is that too expensive, I think so. But I can't blame apple for taking money from people willing to pay it. Maybe they will be offering $200 rebates soon like Palm does for the 750. Again, lets not get into measuring whose feature list is bigger as the only ones that count are ones on the list that people are interested in.

    My son decided that he is gonna stick with his current phone at least until the iPhone 2 cames out. He has a current iPod which his brother will inherit and figures that the improvements we'll see in the next generation will be similar to what the market saw with the generations between iPods.

    Then again, I scoffed at the Treo 600 as I couldn't see myself buying a phone that required me to wear a wire running from my ear to my hip in order to drive. But I wasn't here on the forums starting "10 things that suck about the Treo 600" threads.

    "1. It doesn't have BT other phones have BT, why doesn't the 600 ?"

    While it was a limitation I wasn't willing to live with, it didn't offend me and make my blood boil that others were perfectly happy to live with this limitation. Our criteria was different, our situations were different. I lived in the county that passed the first "hands free" cell phone law. Other people could hold their phones to their ear, i couldn't w/o risking fat fines and points on my license. Different tools for different folks with different needs just doesn't bother me a bit.
    Last edited by JackNaylorPE; 07/20/2007 at 04:14 PM.
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    i have hundreds of contacts, my finger does the walking. it's not difficult for me to do and quite easy to accept.

    it doesn't bother this user
    To each his own, I guess. The ability to type 3, or maybe 4, letters and narrow right down to the contact I want is a Godsend to me. I can't imagine having to scroll all the way to someone who's name starts with "T" or "Z" whenever I need to call them.

    Sure, you can put up with almost anything, but why should you have to when there are so many ways that are so much easier? I could still start my car with a crank, or my bike with a kick starter, and "accept" it. But if almost every other car and bike had an electric starter, I think I'd feel a bit gipped.

    Like I said before, I think those who refuse to acknoledge the weaknesses of the iPhone are just too emotionally involved with their investment to admit the truth. (The same thing applies to many Treo owners, btw.)
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss View Post
    If only we had some way of knowing how many defectors there have been in the last 90 days. IPhone aside, I see more and more people with Blackberry's even without a Blackberry server.
    once again, exactly what i've been saying but very difficult for some to swallow. many don't need all that the Treo has to offer as many other manufacturers have been able to offer the same but in a slimmed down form factor. who wants to carry a brick when they don't have to? but i suppose many justify its existence with the hundreds of dollars or hours spent on trying to make their Treo do what it doesn't out of the box.

    if you love your Treo, great, i used to enjoy owning one but finally gave up when all they offered me was an antenna-less and curved-in sided shell. there are other alternatives out there. hec, i'm sure we can flood the remainder of this thread with links to those who think so. but that would be silly, wouldn't it.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  16. #96  
    You know, Jack may really be on to something here...there are a lot of "tools" in this thread...
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
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