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  1. #21  
    It's death by a thousand cuts, not just the iPhone. There are literally dozens of phones out there that have leapfrogged the Treo series. iPhone, BB Curve, Blackjack, Pearl, Dash, Cingular 8525, you name it. Each in their own way has superior/more fun/exciting improvements the Treo has ignored. No one phone will ever have EVERYTHING a user wants (despite protests to the contrary) but many have superior software, hardware features, interface advancements, usability features that Treo lacks.

    At the release of the Treo 600, they were king of the hill (at least until you tried to use it and couldn't hear - Volumecare; couldn't get email - Snappermail; etc.) but they're now like that old joke - if you're not the lead dog on the sled, the view is always the same.

    No, there is no such thing as a single "Treo killer"; it's dying from cumulative blood loss. The hanger-ons are starting to sound like Wordstar users when Wordperfect swept the market, then Wordperfect users as Word raced to the front... "I'm happy; its great just as it is; if only they'd port it to Windows; what makes you think DOS is better than CP/M." Time, and the market, has passed Palm by.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss View Post
    It's death by a thousand cuts, not just the iPhone. There are literally dozens of phones out there that have leapfrogged the Treo series. iPhone, BB Curve, Blackjack, Pearl, Dash, Cingular 8525, you name it. Each in their own way has superior/more fun/exciting improvements the Treo has ignored. No one phone will ever have EVERYTHING a user wants (despite protests to the contrary) but many have superior software, hardware features, interface advancements, usability features that Treo lacks.

    At the release of the Treo 600, they were king of the hill (at least until you tried to use it and couldn't hear - Volumecare; couldn't get email - Snappermail; etc.) but they're now like that old joke - if you're not the lead dog on the sled, the view is always the same.

    No, there is no such thing as a single "Treo killer"; it's dying from cumulative blood loss. The hanger-ons are starting to sound like Wordstar users when Wordperfect swept the market, then Wordperfect users as Word raced to the front... "I'm happy; its great just as it is; if only they'd port it to Windows; what makes you think DOS is better than CP/M." Time, and the market, has passed Palm by.
    Very well said. I couldn`t agree more.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by phrogpilot73 View Post
    Personally, I don't think that the iPhone is the Treo killer that everyone makes it out to be...
    No, sure, the Treo and the iPhone have different strengths and address *somewhat* different market segments, though they are certainly overlapping. But the problem is more:
    1) the iPhone sold 700,000 in 48 hours! and their target is 10 million. That is a lot of customers that *could* have (easily) been Palm customers, if Palm had played their cards right, but didn't.
    2) the iPhone is simply a much more impressive package of technology. It is faster, has more memory, longer battery life, HALF the volume of the Treo, much nicer feel and finish, and, probably the most significant, has a much more obvious higher level of software engineering. So *any* customers that picks up a Treo in one hand and an iPhone in the other is going to ask: "Why can't Palm engineer a device like the iPhone ?" "Why is it that the iPhone is faster, with longer battery life, etc and yet much, much thinner than the Treo ?" It is inescapable that the Treo is an inferior device from both a hardware and software engineering standpoint, regardless of whether they address somewhat different markets. You cannot credibly argue that the Treo is as fat as it is because of functions it performs. HTC has been making that point for a while now, but the iPhone simply slams it home: Palm can no longer engineer state of the art devices (or at least it has no will to do so...). Every potential Treo customer is going to now ask: Do I really want these added functions that the Treo can do, that the iPhone (currently) doesn't, because, I would rather have the sleeker, more technologically advanced iPhone...
    3) PalmOS used to be the king of easy-to-use and intuitive. It can no longer claim even that. The iPhone simply slams home something we've known for a while: Palm software engineering has been sitting on there asses for years. And with it, Palm has lost "mind-share", even as it is losing market share.

    So, no, the Treo and the iPhone are not direct competitors, but that doesn't matter... the iPhone has raised the bar -- right in Palm's face...
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    1) the iPhone sold 700,000 in 48 hours!
    And here go the numbers...

    Why do I recall the estimate as being 500,000 by Monday e.g at least 72 hours and only was it bumped higher towards the end of that week.

    Not that it isn't still impressive, but I could imagine in a year from now it'll be "They sold 1.2 million in the first 24 hours! Don't you remember the riots?"

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    2) the iPhone is simply a much more impressive package of technology. It is faster, has more memory, longer battery life, HALF the volume of the Treo, much nicer feel and finish, and, probably the most significant, has a much more obvious higher level of software engineering. So *any* customers that picks up a Treo in one hand and an iPhone in the other is going to ask: "Why can't Palm engineer a device like the iPhone ?" "Why is it that the iPhone is faster, with longer battery life, etc and yet much, much thinner than the Treo ?" It is inescapable that the Treo is an inferior device from both a hardware and software engineering standpoint, regardless of whether they address somewhat different markets. You cannot credibly argue that the Treo is as fat as it is because of functions it performs. HTC has been making that point for a while now, but the iPhone simply slams it home: Palm can no longer engineer state of the art devices (or at least it has no will to do so...). Every potential Treo customer is going to now ask: Do I really want these added functions that the Treo can do, that the iPhone (currently) doesn't, because, I would rather have the sleeker, more technologically advanced iPhone...
    This part is certainly true, but with Apple using ODM's they could have easily requested these hardware design improvements. It was more about will (or willingness to pay) than capability. With Palm saying they are going to leverage the design skills of their ODM's more for their WM product line we can only hope this will improve.

    Surur
  6. #26  
    I still have to say that there's something about Palm's line of treos. I'm a WM person, and I definitely have my choices laid out for me. Look at my av, I have an 8525, a Blackjack, and a Treo 750. I loaded WM6 on the 8525 and Blackjack and used them for a while, but I was left wanting my Treo 750. It's my primary device again (I forced myself to use the blackjack and 8525 by only bringing those two on a 2 week long business trip) and I really don't miss the other two devices much. The Treo 750 is just that good.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I'm looking and reading about all the new devices... and I still love my tre 700wx...

    What we are waiting for -- and has to be arriving -- is a true treo killer... so far, for me, that has not arrived... palm has made mistakes, but it is not dead... yet.
    Dude - we don't need a treo killer. Plam is doing just fine killing the product on there own (See MR release for Sprint and for Verizon)
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  8.    #28  
    Hell, I was not refering to any one device that has or will put the lights out for the Treo. No, I do not think the jesusphone will or has killed the Treo by a long shot. Iphone users are now just finding out it will cost them a loaner phone, time, plus shipping bringing the total to around $100 or more to get their batteries replaced. Not to mention all the things it should do that it does not.
    I mean, you have flip phones and candybar style phones that have tons of features now.
    Every Treo after the 700 had or has no excuse for not having at least a 2MP camera on board. I could care less about operating systems that "might" run a Treo. 750, 680 style treos, nice, but what have you really done there, gotten rid of an antenna that is not even an inch high. Wooo hooo.
    I know, I know, "entry" level market phones.
    I can tell you this for sure, if I were Palm, and in the shape that they are, I would be putting out some hard facts about what they have cooking, if for no other reason than to keep my flock with me for what may be coming.
    If something that we are all looking for comes along I will be the first to say "well I could not have been more wrong". As is there is nothing wrong with my 650. But let the first "flushed" out product like the Prada or the HTC to come along on my carrier with touch, and I am gone.
    Someone at Palm, what ever department that may be, should have seen these times coming.
    Here is to hoping though.
  9. #29  
    I'm not sure that the battery will ever be an issue.....my 650 is approaching 3 years of age.....I still charge it only once a week. Now how many peeps on this board keep a phone for three years ?

    This is obviously more of an issue with CDMA than it is w/ GSM....I would do the same thing w/ the iPhone as I do w/ my Treo....I pop the SIM card out and put it in one of the many old throw aways I have laying around the house. With 3kids and a spouse all swapping out their phones every 2 years, got plenty of those lying around.

    besides, by then everyone will have their iPhones up on e-bay while they check their camping equipment for the 2 day wait outside the Apple store for the new iPhone Nano.

    http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32828/118/

    Apple will release a Nano-sized version of the iPhone in the fourth quarter, according to a new report issued by Kevin Chang of JP Morgan. Chang speculated about the upcoming phone after he talked with supply chain professionals in Taipei, where he is based, and looking at Apple’s patent application for a new phone. Forget 12 million iPhones, JP Morgan is predicting 30-40 million iPN's will be sold in 2008. Yikes, time to call Charlie Schwab !

    Chang says the new, smaller and sleeker iPhone would be cheaper than the current $499/$599 iPhone and should cost approximately $300 or less. He adds that such a low priced phone could sell 30 to 40 million united in 2008. This figure is much larger than Apple’s own prediction of 10 million units sold for the current iPhone version.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post
    I'm not sure that the battery will ever be an issue.....my 650 is approaching 3 years of age.....I still charge it only once a week. Now how many peeps on this board keep a phone for three years ?
    You know a charge a week for 3 years is only 50 recharge cycles...

    Surur
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    You know a charge a week for 3 years is only 50 recharge cycles...

    Surur
    My math isn't adding up to yours
  12. #32  
    Umm, 150. Anyway, the point remains. 150<<300

    Surur
  13. #33  
    700,000 in 48 hours WOW that's impressive. Of course we all know, whether we admit or not, that the sales were a result of over hyped marketing that created tons of iHope. The more interesting numbers would be the returns and/or subsequent sales over the next 2 quarters. How many will miss the return date waiting for ___ iPromise and then shelf it when they have to switch to a different device? (That # will never be known)
    Last edited by sxtg; 07/10/2007 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Edited to remove the unnecessary pronoun "the" from iPromise
  14. #34  
    Personally, I think the demise of Palm and the Treo are way, way, way premature. They have carrier agreements pretty much everywhere on the planet. Still are the smartphone by which all others are compared (Yes I realize there are large hordes of people in a near religious frenzy over the iPhone; however, I think final judgment on its success, or failure, should be held until it's been in the field for a while, say a year.). Perhaps most importantly, later this year we will see the first device in years produced where Palm has control of both the hardware and the OS.

    Now, many are clamoring for news and immediate innovation right now. Let me pose a thought, that it would probably have been sub-optimal business strategy. When a major competitor makes an announcement, like Apple bringing the iPhone out, you can do one of two things: upstage their announcement, or let them have their day and come back with a strong counter punch. One might say the Foleo and recent phone introductions were upstage attempts, but I doubt it. Those strike me as events which were in motion even before Apple introduced the iPhone. Regardless, nothing was going to stop this summer being dominated by the iPhone. Jobs knows how to work a marketing campaign and builds products with a lot of flash and the Apple cultists were going to rush out and buy it no matter what it was. So, the best thing for Palm to do is probably sit back, execute their plan, continue to have record, or near record, sell through of Treos and prepare to launch the next model, with the linux based OS, in time for the holidays. Heck, they might even launch some of the re-conceptualized smartphones too, since the Foleo will be out and a major media blitz will probably be in order by then.

    JMHO

    Gargoyle
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    I.D.I.O.T
    (*****)

    Hey, sxtg, let me spell things out for you since you need help.

    My phone of choice is now a blackberry. We liked the iphone but decided to hold off since we want to stay with sprint. The third quote was relevant to a windoze vs palm debate. Windoze is cumbersome, palm os is easier to use. That doesn't mean I prefer palm os over blackberry.

    simple. Now go back to your useless trolling.

    T.R.O.L.L
    (troll)
    Just tell me where to next, and "I'm right there with ya...."
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    You know a charge a week for 3 years is only 50 recharge cycles...

    Surur
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    You know a charge a week for 3 years is only 50 recharge cycles...

    Surur
    No, I use "the ole math" .

    When I say, I "still charge it once a week" I mean "I typically go a whole week before I need to charge it. And when used as a business tool, I easily get a week out of it. If it's used it as a toy or entertainment device, it gets less. I also get less if I happen to leave it in the car as when the alarm goes off it rings and rings and rings till it's dead. When used with the GPS cradle, it is constantly being charged. Overall I'd say that about once a month it gets a charge because I:

    a) let the kids play with it
    b) left in car (GPS unplugged) and didn't shut alarm off
    c) Using GPS

    Weekly charges - 156
    Quarterly Battery Maintenance (Full discharge/recharge) - 12
    Alarm killed it - 36
    Kids playing games - 36
    GPS charging Equivalent - 36

    So I am still getting "good as new" usage out of it after 276 charges. I doubt it's going to go from "good as new" to "dead" over the next 24 charges.
  17. #37  
    Hey sxtg, are you ALWAYS an a$$hole or is it just that time of the month for you today?

    Couldn't get a hold of a tampax today, could you?
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post
    No, I use "the ole math" .

    When I say, I "still charge it once a week" I mean "I typically go a whole week before I need to charge it. And when used as a business tool, I easily get a week out of it. If it's used it as a toy or entertainment device, it gets less. I also get less if I happen to leave it in the car as when the alarm goes off it rings and rings and rings till it's dead. When used with the GPS cradle, it is constantly being charged. Overall I'd say that about once a month it gets a charge because I:

    a) let the kids play with it
    b) left in car (GPS unplugged) and didn't shut alarm off
    c) Using GPS

    Weekly charges - 156
    Quarterly Battery Maintenance (Full discharge/recharge) - 12
    Alarm killed it - 36
    Kids playing games - 36
    GPS charging Equivalent - 36

    So I am still getting "good as new" usage out of it after 276 charges. I doubt it's going to go from "good as new" to "dead" over the next 24 charges.
    Well, thats not what you said. In any case, do you really believe that a) you have had 276 full recharge cycles and b) the battery is as good as new? Its normal for batteries to age. Why would yours be different. It may just be that in your usage you do not notice the difference.

    Surur
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    Hey sxtg, are you ALWAYS an a$$hole or is it just that time of the month for you today?

    Couldn't get a hold of a tampax today, could you?
    first I am a tool, then a troll, and now a menstruating a$$hole.

    Your finest moments, to be sure.
  20. #40  
    Blah, blah, blah. Its always the same. Give me a break. Who are you trying to kid? Am I supposed to politely THANK you for instigating me a while back?

    You post these snide little insinuations and suddenly you're positioning yourself as the innocent angel here?

    Please. If you don't want to be insulted, stop with the snide remarks, understand, pal?

    As far as one's finer moments, you're no better, sxtg. All you're doing is instigating and baiting for a flame war here. Anyone can see that.

    Ill be civil when you are, jack. Period.
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