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  1.    #1  
    But I can't seem to comprehend a few things...which is why I said it would make me sound ignorant...

    1. The 700p and WX are the same specs, would it be possible (after updates are out) to criss cross? meaning would I be able to turn a 700p to a WX? and vice versa...?

    2. I already know and understand that everyone is waiting on Palm to release an update...if and when an update does come out, will it be linux based for the 700p? Will there ever be a significant update to the OS aside from bug repairs?

    3. Could someone explain Access, palm, palm Inc? Access owns 5.9? Palm makes the phone...Palm inc....and I'm lost after that.

    Thanks for any replies.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by RavenII View Post
    But I can't seem to comprehend a few things...which is why I said it would make me sound ignorant...

    1. The 700p and WX are the same specs, would it be possible (after updates are out) to criss cross? meaning would I be able to turn a 700p to a WX? and vice versa...?

    The 700p and 700wx do not have the same specs, principly the 700wx only has a 240x240 pixel screen, and the 700p only has 32 MB RAM. Even if you could install WM6 on the 700p it would run poorly in 32 MB ram, and PalmOS does not do 240x240, so it would not run on the Treo 700wx. However the next generation of devices should be very similar. A multi-tasking Linux-based Treo 800 will also need 64MB ram to run effectively, while the next windows Treo will also run in 320x320, so expect a lot of people being able to change OS's via ROM updates.

    2. I already know and understand that everyone is waiting on Palm to release an update...if and when an update does come out, will it be linux based for the 700p? Will there ever be a significant update to the OS aside from bug repairs?

    The Linux based OS will only come out at the end of the year, and Linux-based Treo's next year, so the long delayed Treo 700p update will run garnet. The next significant update is the Linux-based one.

    3. Could someone explain Access, palm, palm Inc? Access owns 5.9? Palm makes the phone...Palm inc....and I'm lost after that.

    I'll try and keep it short.

    There used to be a company called Palm, who made PDA's. They were bought and spun of by a variety of people, e.g. 3COM, US Robotics etc, and eventually became a stand-alone company.

    They made an incredibly popular product, and their secret sauce was their software. They though Microsoft-like they could make even more money by selling just the software to e.g. Sony, Acer etc and also to continue making hardware. This was in the early dot-com boom, when everyone needed an organizer. Of course the people who licensed their software were also their hardware competitors, and this resulted in their software department becoming semi-independent (e.g. separate building, less communication with the hardware people) to prevent unfair competition. In the end Palm decided to spin of completely their software devision, creating PalmOne and PalmSource. PalmOne was hardware (the always profitable side) and PalmSource was software (the always struggling one).

    This was at the height of the dot-com boom, and they had a massive IPO. Then came the crash, the bubble burst, no-one needed organizers anymore, and both independent companies suffered greatly.

    Actually I became bored telling the long and sordid tale. Maybe some-one else can take over. To wrap it up, PalmSource was bought by Access, who then owned the Garnet OS, PalmOne was saved by the Treo, PalmOne bought back its name from PalmSource, and became Palm, they later bought back their OS (perpetual license) and will now make PalmOS II. I skipped a lot of juicy stuff there, e.g. Access's ALP being dumped. I'm sure some-one else will fill in the gaps.


    Thanks for any replies.
    Response in bold.

    Surur
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Response in bold.

    Surur
    Short version but done real well Surur...
    at&t iPhone3G
  4. #4  
    I agree. You may have bored yourself telling it, but I learned a lot...thanks!
  5.    #5  
    Surur,

    I can't possibly thank you enough for your reply. I think that should be stickied, I'm sure there are people that are wondering the same thing.

    It sucks that it seems as if the 700p will be stuck on Garnet...I have a Clie UX-50 which is stuck on like....5.3? yeah it blows. Thanks again.
  6. #6  
    Good job surur,
    I would have posted a link to wikipedia instead
    Technological superiority has never won a product battle. If that were the case we would all be flying in supersonic Concordes and using Apple computers.

    The key to winning the battle is a combination of price, convenience, marketing, sound business model and a bit of luck.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    PalmOne was saved by the Treo..Gaps
    One huge detail missing: my Treo 300 & Treo 600 were manufactured and labeled Handspring, not Palm
    My Freebie Java Widgets (Compatible with 650, 680, 700p & 755p)
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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by g-funkster View Post
    One huge detail missing: my Treo 300 & Treo 600 were manufactured and labeled Handspring, not Palm
    Ah, but Palm was saved by buying in the Treo. Its still saving them now. It did not save Handspring of course (as an independent company), despite being a great hail Mary maneuver.

    Surur
  9. #9  
    the 700p only has 32 MB RAM
    Nope. It has 128mb, with 62mb available to the user.
    I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by fleeing the scene of the accident!
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by KabukiAssassin View Post
    Nope. It has 128mb, with 62mb available to the user.
    No it isn't. RAM=SDRAM. The 128MB = Flash storage.

    I dont know when it became fashionable to call storage RAM, but it's really irritating. They are far from equivalent, but people do not seem to realize this. When they buy a new hard drive, do their computer suddenly have 400 GB of RAM too?

    Surur
  11. #11  
    Whatever you call it the 700P has 53 megs available for storage. The 700W has only 32 megs.the WX has 64.
    Visor Platinum-->Visor NEO--->M505--->Treo 300 Sprint--->Treo 600---> TREO 650 ---> Treo 700P ---> Treo 755 --->Touch Diamond--->Touch Pro ---> Palm Pre
    Check out the expert judges at http//:mobileappsshowdown.com
  12. #12  
    You are still mixing them up. The 700Wx has 64 MB sdram and 128 MB flash. The 700p has 32MB SDRAM and 128 MB flash. This has been discussed many times before.

    Surur
  13. #13  
    for the non-believers, this is from Palm's pluggedin (https://pdn.palm.com/regac/pdn/page?...velop_treo700p) page (you need to be registered):

    The first Treo running Palm OS 5.4.9, the Treo 700p is full of exciting upgrades. Starting with the Palm OS 5.4.9 update, which provides improved NVFS memory management, the Treo 700p is also loaded with 128MB (64MB NAND + 64MB NOR) of built-in flash memory and 32MB of DRAM. The execute-in-place Treo 700p smartphone System Image (ROM), located in the device’s 64MB NOR Flash, frees up even more space for users and developers, allowing for 60MB of nonvolatile memory available to users.
    Last edited by g-funkster; 04/16/2007 at 08:36 AM. Reason: updated link
    My Freebie Java Widgets (Compatible with 650, 680, 700p & 755p)
    HourlyXCast - Hourly & 7 Day Forecasts! Weather Graphics, Radar Images & Alerts. "When 'PM Showers' just doesn't cut it"
    - RottenTomatoMeter - Movie Ratings, Reviews, Showtimes for New Movies & DVDs
    - TV2Nite - Calendar Events for your Favorite TV Shows!
  14. #14  
    I don't know what kind it is but I have 53 megs available for storage in addition the 4 gb card on my 700P and so do all the rest.

    I don't know what kind it is so maybe I'm missing the point and someone could enlighten me. The big knock on the 650 was lack of memory which the 700P somewhat remedied by having 53 available while the 650 only had 23. What other memory are you talking about and how does it impact the device and usability?
    Visor Platinum-->Visor NEO--->M505--->Treo 300 Sprint--->Treo 600---> TREO 650 ---> Treo 700P ---> Treo 755 --->Touch Diamond--->Touch Pro ---> Palm Pre
    Check out the expert judges at http//:mobileappsshowdown.com
  15. #15  
    Nevermind the last post it was explained in the post just before mine...I didn't read far enough before replying.
    Visor Platinum-->Visor NEO--->M505--->Treo 300 Sprint--->Treo 600---> TREO 650 ---> Treo 700P ---> Treo 755 --->Touch Diamond--->Touch Pro ---> Palm Pre
    Check out the expert judges at http//:mobileappsshowdown.com
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    You are still mixing them up. The 700Wx has 64 MB sdram and 128 MB flash. The 700p has 32MB SDRAM and 128 MB flash. This has been discussed many times before.

    Surur
    The 700p has 64MB SDRAM also...it is the 650 that has 32mb SDRAM, hence being one of the benefits of the upgrade beyond a EVDO radio.
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  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by KStewart View Post
    The 700p has 64MB SDRAM also...it is the 650 that has 32mb SDRAM, hence being one of the benefits of the upgrade beyond a EVDO radio.
    No it hasn't. Come on, G-funkster gave you a link. Why dont you believe it?

    There is a long story about this issue also. PalmOS used to be completely RAM based, hence running down your battery could lose you everything. Of course it also had some ROM where the OS was stored. Then with the 650 came NVFS. This placed all the files in FLASH, and mapped this to DBCache, but as far as the OS knows its still as if its all in Real RAM. Flash however is a lot slower, hence all the new stability problems introduced with it, and of course the inevitable lag, as the OS starts to juggle things between Real RAM (in the DBCache and execution memory) and the flash. It never needed to do this while the OS was only RAM based.

    When people talk about using software like Resco Locker to lock programs in the dbcache, what they are actually doing is stopping the OS from swapping out the program from real ram in the DBCache into flash memory, which of course can lead to memory management issues.

    A good analogy is that previously PalmOs was all RAM based, but now its all Virtual RAM based, with a much smaller amount of REAL RAM to support it. There is thus a lot of swapping to REAL RAM involved, and just like when a program swaps to disk and you try to use it, there is a lag.

    As you can see, the situation with Flash and Ram became a lot more complex with NVFS, and probably more complex and unstable than Windows Mobile was with Persistent Memory, which simply works like a HDD works on a PC, while NVFS involves a lot of sleight of hand to keep things compatible.

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 04/16/2007 at 02:09 AM.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    No it hasn't. Come on, G-funkster gave you a link. Why dont you believe it?

    There is a long story about this issue also. PalmOS used to be completely RAM based, hence running down your battery could lose you everything. Of course it also had some ROM where the OS was stored. Then with the 650 came NVFS. This placed all the files in FLASH, and mapped this to DBCache, but as far as the OS knows its still as if its all in Real RAM. Flash however is a lot slower, hence all the new stability problems introduced with it, and of course the inevitable lag, as the OS starts to juggle things between Real RAM (in the DBCache and execution memory) and the flash. It never needed to do this while the OS was only RAM based.

    When people talk about using software like Resco Locker to lock programs in the dbcache, what they are actually doing is stopping the OS from swapping out the program from real ram in the DBCache into flash memory, which of course can lead to memory management issues.

    A good analogy is that previously PalmOs was all RAM based, but now its all Virtual RAM based, with a much smaller amount of REAL RAM to support it. There is thus a lot of swapping to REAL RAM involved, and just like when a program swaps to disk and you try to use it, there is a lag.

    As you can see, the situation with Flash and Ram became a lot more complex with NVFS, and probably more complex and unstable than Windows Mobile was with Persistent Memory, which simply works like a HDD works on a PC, while NVFS involves a lot of sleight of hand to keep things compatible.

    Surur
    I am on track now...thanks
    at&t iPhone3G

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