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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Rumor? more like pure fantasy!
    I saw that this morning and it sounds a little far fetched to me too. Has WiMax even been "deployed" anywhere yet?
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by newtonjack View Post
    Marc Blank (Chattermail) announced to join Palm on Feb 22.

    Paul Mercer (Iventor)joined Palm 3 weeks ago.

    It seems that both joined Palm at the same time. Another interesting point is both owned their own company and gave up their companies to join Palm.

    Marc's strength - Email wireless sync (Responds to Rimm)

    Paul's strength - Interface (Responds to iPhone)

    Rumor - Ultra thin WiMAX Treo (Responds to all competitors)
    This Marc guy of Chattermail refused to acknowledge how Apple's iPhone and its free Yahoo Push IMAP account was something real and beneficial here on the TreoCentral forums. He also clings to a belief that Chattermail is superior.

    Chattermail's solution required a person to purchase, download and retain a separate application to access this one e-mail account that has push features while having yet another application for regular POP or IMAP accounts. Plus, you had to rely on this one central Chattermail server.

    Considering the need of push e-mail systems for environments with constraints on bandwidth, latency, client memory and costs, PUSH IMAP e-mail service functionality is perfect for handhelds/phones. But some of the benefits are removed when a separate server (increasing network traffic) and a separate email client (consuming phone resources unnecessarily) is required for services like Chattermail.

    Yahoo provides a push IMAP service without the need of additional servers. It utilizes the existing SMTP protocols which cuts out the need for additional servers, network traffic, email clients, and subscription fees in the case of Yahoo!'s push email account that you get free with the iPhone.

    His refusal to acknowledge competitors fits right in with Palm's business strategies. He will do well there.



    As far as Paul Mercer goes, Palm fans should know that he was hired by Samsung a few years back to create an iPod competitor for Samsung. It failed.

    It would be foolish to pin your hopes on one person to drag Palm out of its doldrums.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    Chattermail's solution required a person to purchase, download and retain a separate application to access this one e-mail account that has push features while having yet another application for regular POP or IMAP accounts. Plus, you had to rely on this one central Chattermail server.
    What are you talking about? I had POP and IMAP e-mail accounts long before I started using Chatter. All Chatter did was allow me to access those accounts. What "central Chatteremail server" and "separate application" are you talking about?
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    This Marc guy of Chattermail refused to acknowledge how Apple's iPhone and its free Yahoo Push IMAP account was something real and beneficial here on the TreoCentral forums. He also clings to a belief that Chattermail is superior.
    This is another example of why I think the iPhone and Treo are for different markets.

    Most people who would buy the iPhone for personal use probably don't mind having a yahoo email address, if they don't already have one.

    However, a lot of people that buy the Treo use it for business and don't want to give out a @yahoo.com email address to their clients or other business contacts. It just doesn't look professional.

    You said "real and beneficial on these forums"....does that mean these forums specifically, or in general? I'm pretty sure most people here would rather have Exchange or Goodlink than Yahoo push mail. Outside of these forums, some might prefer yahoo, but considering the flexibility of exchange, I think most here would prefer it to yahoo.

    Also, this free yahoo push IMAP mail, would it also allow one to synchronize calendar, contacts, and tasks over the air? If it doesn't, then it's not even on par with the Exchange support provided in Versamail 3.5 (yea I know Vmail doesn't do tasks, but it still gets contacts and calendar). Don't know if the 700wx and 750 sync tasks or not, but I know they sync email, contacts, and calendar, right out of the box.

    Chattermail's solution required a person to purchase, download and retain a separate application to access this one e-mail account that has push features while having yet another application for regular POP or IMAP accounts. Plus, you had to rely on this one central Chattermail server.
    I'm pretty sure you can use Chatteremail for all your email accounts, so there'd be no sense in using Chatter for push, and then Versamail for POP and/or IMAP.

    And I don't think Chatter uses a central server anymore, I'm pretty sure it goes straght to your email server.

    Considering the need of push e-mail systems for environments with constraints on bandwidth, latency, client memory and costs, PUSH IMAP e-mail service functionality is perfect for handhelds/phones. But some of the benefits are removed when a separate server (increasing network traffic) and a separate email client (consuming phone resources unnecessarily) is required for services like Chattermail.
    Constraints on bandwidth? I guess this is true if you're on one of those limited data plans. However, most people get unlimited data plans nowadays and bandwidth is not an issue. And how much latency do you have to worry about with push email? Latency is usually caused by a server side issue, not a client issue. Most people using exchange on their WM Treos report that they get it on their Treos before they even get it on their desktops

    With the exception of the storage space required to install it, how much more of the phone's resources does Chattermail use, than using the built in Versamail?

    Once again, Chatter doesn't use a central server, so that point is invalidated.


    Yahoo provides a push IMAP service without the need of additional servers. It utilizes the existing SMTP protocols which cuts out the need for additional servers, network traffic, email clients, and subscription fees in the case of Yahoo!'s push email account that you get free with the iPhone.
    See above. Chatter does not use central servers. There are no subscription fees with Chatter.

    His refusal to acknowledge competitors fits right in with Palm's business strategies. He will do well there.
    I think this is more to do with your inability to research your statements.

    As far as Paul Mercer goes, Palm fans should know that he was hired by Samsung a few years back to create an iPod competitor for Samsung. It failed.

    It would be foolish to pin your hopes on one person to drag Palm out of its doldrums.
    Would it not also be foolish to assume that because he failed with Samsung, he'll fail with Palm? It's not like we can say for sure that the Samsung device failed specifically because of Paul Mercer. I'm not saying Mercer is the knight in shining armor, but to simply say that Palm won't do any better now that they have new people working for them without any real logic is ridiculous.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    I saw that this morning and it sounds a little far fetched to me too. Has WiMax even been "deployed" anywhere yet?
    not yet, but rumor has it that sprint will be rolling it out later this year and that this new treo will be one of the few phones that can handle it.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  6. #26  
    Archie does not know (or understand) that chattermail is just a good IMAP client. We all know no push IMAP clients existed before Apple invented it of course.

    Surur
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Archie does not know (or understand) that chattermail is just a good IMAP client. We all know no push IMAP clients existed before Apple invented it of course.

    Surur
    And the same for the creative nomad, rca lyra, and other MP3 players before the iPod.

    Apple will do a great job with the iPhone and i'm seriously holding back waiting for the second generation (and a 3G GSM treo! where for thou?). But i hope they don't claim they have re-invented the Phone. They can have the PC, but i hope they don't sit on their high horses and say they created the phone 5 years from now.
    Iím a lucky man to count on both hands
    The ones I love..

    Visor Pro -> Visor Edge -> Treo 180 -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> T|T2+SE T68i -> Treo 600 -> T-Mobile MDA -> Treo 755p -> Treo 800w -> Treo 755p -> PALM PRE -> Palm Pre 2 -> HP Palm Pre 3

    Twittering about
  8. #28  
    Archie...what are you talking about?

    Anyway, the iPhone and Treo are totally different markets, but it is unwise to think that Apple's foray into the phone market won't affect Palm. At first the iPhone will be a very expensive media centric phone with a huge 'coolness' factor associated with it. When was the last time Palm released anything that seriously considered very cool? The Vx perhaps? Eventualy, Apple will diversify the iPhone and the device will become more of a price point competitor to the Treos...its just a matter of time. The truth is that Palm probably only has one or two device generations to show something unique in the Treo brand before is dies into obsolensence imo... lets hope it sooner than later...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  9. #29  
    Marc???

    I hear everybody talking except the person the comments were directed at. Why isn't Marc answering for himself?

    Oh, it's because he can't. He has signed himself away to Palm. Why did he do that? Hmmmm... let's see...

    OH! It's because Palm is paying him good money to bail them out.

    You see, if you check back 4 months at this link here, you will see that I predicted this very thing. Palm will soon be terminating their relationship with Good Technology and their business e-mail solutions. They are in search of a quick replacement and Marc will be helping them design it.

    Palm better hope that Microsoft doesn't purchase a little company called Tellme Networks. Ohh, ho hhhooooooo...




    Eh, doesn't really matter. Palm has been in panic mode every since the Good-Motorola deal. And then when the iPhone hit, they just took to ignoring reality.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    You see, if you check back 4 months at this link here, you will see that I predicted this very thing. Palm will soon be terminating their relationship with Good Technology and their business e-mail solutions. They are in search of a quick replacement and Marc will be helping them design it.
    There's nothing quick about it. It sounds like Palm started hedging their bets and started working on their own groupware solution right after MOTO bought Good.

    This job posting for an Automation Developer was posted back in December 2006:

    Palm is looking for a Software Automation Developer to intelligently test and assess the quality of its upcoming email and groupware products. This person will be responsible for designing, developing and executing automated test suites as part of the Palm Software Test Engineering group in Andover, MA.
    Just as with the recent hiring of Paul Mercer, these people are joining pre-existing teams of talented people. I highly doubt Palm is looking for any one person to "bail them out". It sounds like they've been developing their own email and groupware products in-house for some time. Just as with the Palm OS/PalmSource/ACCESS fiasco and Palm hedging their bets by licensing WinMob, Palm does not want to rely on a third party to control key components of their business (OS, groupware & email), so they are taking back control of their own destiny.
    Last edited by ballistic; 03/14/2007 at 05:30 AM.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by ballistic View Post
    There's nothing quick about it.
    You are correct. I had forgotten how slow Palm moves. Sorry.

    Nevertheless; timing aside, I called that one.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe View Post
    not yet, but rumor has it that sprint will be rolling it out later this year and that this new treo will be one of the few phones that can handle it.
    I didn't know that they were that far into getting the WiMax network up! I had heard that it was going to be a huge gamble for them (although, without knowing much about the costs involved, WiMax sounds great to me). Don't want to get off topic...
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    Marc???

    I hear everybody talking except the person the comments were directed at. Why isn't Marc answering for himself?
    Why do you need him to join the chorus telling you that everything you said is wrong?

    You see, if you check back 4 months at this link here, you will see that I predicted this very thing. Palm will soon be terminating their relationship with Good Technology and their business e-mail solutions.
    Still wrong.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    Marc???

    I hear everybody talking except the person the comments were directed at. Why isn't Marc answering for himself?
    Why do you need him to join the chorus telling you that everything you said is wrong?
    Well, I don't really. I was being a smart alec.

    Did you see this thread from a few days ago with 18 different complaints about the Chattermail server being down. Kinda ugly - people loosing mail.

    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    You see, if you check back 4 months at this link here, you will see that I predicted this very thing. Palm will soon be terminating their relationship with Good Technology and their business e-mail solutions.
    Still wrong.
    You can't possibly claim to know any good business tactics while you are claiming that I am wrong.

    Good Technology's primary success was found on first the Palm Treos and second the Samsung Blackjack. This left Motorola without a good push email solution, soooo..... they purchased Good Technology.

    Nowwwww... Motorola is in control of a primary feature that provides the key capability that everybody wants today in their mobile device - that being push e-mail. So Palm has two options AND Motorola has two options.

    Palm can:
    continue using Good or
    discontinue using Good

    Motorola can:
    continue letting its competitors use Good or
    discontinue letting its competitors use Good

    Understand?

    I hope so because I will continue now.

    Motorola is now in a unique position of either using their Good Technology leverage and then discontinue its licensing to Palm, thereby benefitting Motorola by taking away the main selling point of its main competitors (the Treo and the Blackjack). OR they could choose to continue the licensing which would also be beneficial to Motorola because they will be making money off of their competitors. This is a good position to be in. They can't loose.

    Now on to Palm.

    Palm COULD choose to continue using the Good Technology push e-mail solution. However; they will be funding their primary competitor because to use the software technology, they have to license it. So for every Treo sold, they help Motorola step ahead of Palm a little bit more. Of course Palm would also have to reveal their code to Motorola if they choose to continue using Good Technology.

    Case closed. Their is no way in hell that any business would subsidize their competitors with cash while also forking over their software trade secrets. This would be suicide.

    Do you understand now?
    Last edited by archie; 03/21/2007 at 10:45 AM.
  15. #35  
    Just to add fuel to the fire, I'll add on more "Palm COULD...". Palm COULD be bought by Motorola then Motorola gets in on all the Palm action.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    You can't possibly claim to know any good business tactics while you are claiming that I am wrong.

    Good Technology's primary success was found on first the Palm Treos and second the Samsung Blackjack. This left Motorola without a good push email solution, soooo..... they purchased Good Technology.

    Nowwwww... Motorola is in control of a primary feature that provides the key capability that everybody wants today in their mobile device - that being push e-mail. So Palm has two options AND Motorola has two options.

    Palm can:
    continue using Good or
    discontinue using Good

    Motorola can:
    continue letting its competitors use Good or
    discontinue letting its competitors use Good

    Understand?

    I hope so because I will continue now.

    Motorola is now in a unique position of either using their Good Technology leverage and then discontinue its licensing to Palm, thereby benefitting Motorola by taking away the main selling point of its main competitors (the Treo and the Blackjack). OR they could choose to continue the licensing which would also be beneficial to Motorola because they will be making money off of their competitors. This is a good position to be in. They can't loose.

    Now on to Palm.

    Palm COULD choose to continue using the Good Technology push e-mail solution. However; they will be funding their primary competitor because to use the software technology, they have to license it. So for every Treo sold, they help Motorola step ahead of Palm a little bit more. Of course Palm would also have to reveal their code to Motorola if they choose to continue using Good Technology.

    Case closed. Their is no way in hell that any business would subsidize their competitors with cash while also forking over their software trade secrets. This would be suicide.

    Do you understand now?
    Nonsense. Tech companies do business with their direct competitors all the time. For example, Palm also is a customer of both Samsung and Microsoft, but competes directly with them as well.

    But your faulty reasoning is not relevant. You said that Palm would terminate their business relationship with Good, and then you claimed you were right. But they haven't, so you're still wrong.

    http://www.palm.com/us/wireless/emai.../goodlink.html
  17. #37  
    I don't know what to say.

    Your are completely oblivious to the situation.

    Samsung??? what
    There is no "customer" relationship here. How is this related?

    Microsoft??
    Palm & Microsoft are in a special partnership that enable's Palm to continue selling phones so that they can stay in business. Not sure how this is like the Palm and Good Technology situation. Maybe you can explain.

    I will say it again. Palm will no longer release Treos with the Good Technology solution. The 680 and 750 models you speak of were released before this deal was conceived. No further contracts will be signed in the future. It would not be in the company's best interest (to put it mildly).
  18. #38  
    Palm uses Samsung chips in the 750v, and yet competes in selling smartphones. Palm is "helping" its direct competitor.

    Palm licenses the Windows Mobile OS from Microsoft, and yet it is developing a competing OS. Palm is "helping" its direct competitor.

    Your argument that Palm will cut off its relationship with Good because Motorola is a competitor is flawed.

    But again, that's irrelevant. You predicted that Palm would terminate its business relationship with Good. It hasn't. You claimed you were right. But you weren't.
  19. #39  
    If you think that these competitive relationships are the same thing as what I mention, I can try to envision what you are saying; but they are not the same thing.

    And the fact that Palm has not publically announced they are terminating their Good relationship, doesn't mean they will undoubtedly continue to rely on them in the future. In fact; announcing something like nixing a product and service that customer have come to rely on could have the same caliber of adverse affects as actually continuing to rely on them while opening up their OS code base to Motorola. The issue has to be handled in a tactful manner; they would announce a new solution that is cast in a more positive light with proper marketing tactics.

    Good/Motorola has to work closely with device makers to get their stuff ported onto a handheld. I cannot believe you think it is likely that Palm will be OK with showing Good/Motorola some new unannounced Palm product.

    This opening up of trade secrets would be detrimental for both, Palm's hardware and software.

    Ultimately, Motorola wants an end-to-end e-mail ecosystem so that they can compete with RIM's BlackBerry solution and Nokia's Intellisync solution. Eventually; the Good Technology stuff will be tailored exclusively for this end-to-end system on Motorola phones. On a side note, this leaves Palm in a very precarious position and explains why they are hiring people like an Automation Developer, as mentioned earlier in this thread, to help develop their "email and groupware products" (which, if you will note, is exactly what Good Technology provided). The Chattermail guy was also hired by Palm to provide further assistance.

    Now tell me, why would Palm put all this effort and money into developing an email and groupware software solution if they plan on continuing to use Good Technology.
    Last edited by archie; 03/21/2007 at 04:16 PM.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    Good/Motorola has to work closely with device makers to get their stuff ported onto a handheld. I cannot believe you think it is likely that Palm will be OK with showing Good/Motorola some new unannounced Palm product.
    It's about the same as Microsoft sharing the next version of their Mobile OS with Palm in advance. Or Palm sharing its product plans with HTC. Partnering with your competitors creates awkward situations like that.

    Now tell me, why would Palm put all this effort and money into developing an email and groupware software solution if they plan on continuing to use Good Technology.
    No solution will satisfy all business needs. Palm's best course, IMO, is to work with all vendors to ensure maximum compatibility. Reducing compatibility shuts out customers and hurts the company.
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