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  1. robkz's Avatar
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       #1  
    I read a finance article about the decision by Palm to seek strategic alternatives. In the end they said palm's decision to not change the design of the treo much is akin to not changing your dress design for like 2 years.

    Regardless of the analogy...It is seriously time for Treo to be remade into a new format. The trend toward skinny and smaller has made leaps and now the Dash and the Q and one other I can't recall have slimmer sexier versions of the treo with Windows based operating system. Rather than getting into the incremental changes palm has done to our treo. better chips, more memory, windows mobile operating systems, bluetooth enhancements whatever. It is time to review a change in the actual design of the device.

    We need a bigtime revolutionary leap forward here. I am in favor of a big enough change to slim down the unit and possibly forgo the touchscreen to do it.

    there is a new clamshell design from Samsung launched a few weeks ago at Verizon which I think is a big step in the right direction for palm. has a qwerty keyboard, synchs with outlook, evdo access, blah blah blah. But most importantly..it is clamshell with a keyboard. Kind of like the sidekick II. It opens vertically like all clamshells but then has an option to flip up horizontally which is nice. The sleek form factor is a winner though the actual clamshell design itself is just average. Palm could take it to another level. Here is the link to what I am talking about

    http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/s...edPhoneId=2869
  2. #2  
    I think the 680/750 size is fine . . . . . I am not into sleek . . . . I am into function . . . I like the candy bar format . . . just keep packing more into it: 12 hour battery, GPS, WiFi for those that want it, better camera, better video, a Bose speaker, 256mb . . . . . . . . .
  3. #3  
    I had the Q, and found it a bit too thin and light for my tastes. Think the Treo 700P has a very good feel to it, and is a reasonable size considering battery needs.
    RJuhl
  4. #4  
    If you have a successful formula on your hand such as palm does, they will not change what works. Making a radical design change is an extremely risky move by a company. They tend to stick to what works.
  5. #5  
    A few leaks here and there have talked about a new form factor coming for Treos this year. I would not be surprised, but at the same time, expecting something that is 'just like the competitors' is not usually Palm MO. They tend to keep usability at the forefront of new hardware designs.

    In thinking about new designs, one has to look at things that Palm wants to communicate within the new design that speaks a similar 'Treo language.' Issues such as key pad spacing, battery life, accessible controls, and usable screen in the outdoors count. I personally think that the size of the battery in the 680/750 is about as small as Palm wants to go, and so making components smaller and more hand-friendly can go a few directions - a flip being one, a slider being another, but not much else candy bar one can do without taking away the keyboard.

    I played with the Samsung that the OP mentioned at CES. I was impressed by it, but like many of the reviewers, that dual hinge was one part not confidence bearing, and another part a usability nightmare. The idea with any successful design is to design it so that the actions and forms follow what we want to do, not necessarily train us to do new things. If Palm were to do something new, I'd imagine that it would along these thinking lines.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Holden View Post
    I think the 680/750 size is fine . . . . . I am not into sleek . . . . I am into function . . . I like the candy bar format . . . just keep packing more into it: 12 hour battery, GPS, WiFi for those that want it, better camera, better video, a Bose speaker, 256mb . . . . . . . . .
    Once again with this? Treos don't have those features, so how does that justify the thickness at this point in time (save the battery life aspect of it)?

    My hunch, based on Palm's past behavior, is that they won't include many (if any) of those extras, and indeed, they reduced the battery capacity by 1/3 in their latest devices.
  7. #7  
    Hey G !!

    My point is . . . . I don't want a smaller/ thinner device . . . rather than asking for a smaller or thinner device . . . I would be (and am) asking for more in the current size. . . . the OP was asking for a design change. . . .

    (My opinion has not changed from the last time this conversation went around. . . . so, yes, again with this. . . . .)

    Cheers, Perry.
    Last edited by gtwo; 03/05/2007 at 01:20 PM.
  8. #8  
    sorry Perry, I should be more cheery.. I'm just afraid that after all this time, come May, Palm will release the 680 with a CDMA radio and that'll be.. that.
  9. robkz's Avatar
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       #9  
    All good posts above. My theory is this form of the treo has run its course. From the 600 to the 650 to the 700p, 700w, 700wx, 750 and now the 680. The actual design change has been minimal. Components have been upgraded, but other than dumping the nub antannae in favor of an internal one and crisping up the edges some, we have had no real innovation in over 3years. It is time. There is enough room in this space to test a truly innovative treo without compromising the brand. Today one can still buy the 700p, 700wx, 680 and 750 new. With that much product in the market actively, one could easily see palm dump the 700p and wx and provide us with an incremental move forward in the same design with some new components (755 or shadow) while simultanteously delivering to us a new direction.

    Palm has been slow here to deliver some innovation for years. Adding memory and more powerful chips is not innovative. Not improving the os is hardly innovation.

    Frankly, I'd like to see a product that is both innovative and progressive. Set the bar again. Clamshell, palm os, rocker switch without any touchscreen to keep things lean, strong battery life, Kind of like a Razr with a qwerty keyboard and palm os with outlook syncing capabilty. That would set the market! I am slowly feeling it is time to move on from palm. I have been loyal since the original treo 300 but am tired of lack of innovation I have grown accustomed to from Palm.
  10. Stihl's Avatar
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    #10  
    There should definitely be different types of treos like there are different types of blackberrys-maybe not as prolific. It just sucks when certain competitors release new phones with different form factors with such rapidity that by the time a new treo comes out, the actual upgrade is negligible compared to how long you had to wait for it. It's incredibly dissapointing.
  11. #11  
    I agree with Perry really, I think the Treo is the perfect size as it is (I have a 700p.) If any redesign happens, a Cingular 8525 style wouldn't be horrible, but I think I like my Treo how it is. (Although the Cingular 8525 would be better if it included a 10 digit keypad on the front like the smartphone HTC 5800 will have.)

    Also, can someone convince Palm not to use a f***ing new memory format, and stick with SD/ SDHC? That's part of the problem of miniaturization as well. As someone who has around 10 gigs of SD cards already, I really don't want to make a switch.
  12. #12  
    Like a few others here, I find the Treo size, form-factor, shape, weight... everything perfect.

    I also feel that it has more to do with managing perceptions about the product. This is most evident in, say, FMCG, where the branding in almost every segment is so strong that people resist even the smallest change.

    Just to quote, and no offence:
    Quote Originally Posted by robkz View Post
    From the 600 to the 650 to the 700p, 700w, 700wx, 750 and now the 680. The actual design change has been minimal. Components have been upgraded, but other than dumping the nub antannae in favor of an internal one and crisping up the edges some, we have had no real innovation in over 3years.
    robkz, above, agrees that there have been changes, but still says that "changes have been minimal" and there has been "no real innovation".

    I really don't see the point in making Treo more like the RAZR or the MotoQ, or the iPhone or anything else. In-fact that would be really sad.

    Having said that, maybe there is space for a second "line" of Treos (or whatever they may call them). Maybe a premium line with WiFi, 2MP camera, more ringtones , colourful walpapers ... But then, that would confuse potential buyers.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by robkz View Post
    ...
    Frankly, I'd like to see a product that is both innovative and progressive. Set the bar again. Clamshell, palm os, rocker switch without any touchscreen to keep things lean, strong battery life, Kind of like a Razr with a qwerty keyboard and palm os with outlook syncing capabilty. That would set the market! I am slowly feeling it is time to move on from palm. I have been loyal since the original treo 300 but am tired of lack of innovation I have grown accustomed to from Palm.
    No touchscreen! No way!
  14. #14  
    I think the form factor of the 680/750 is perfect. I wouldn't want to sacrifice the ever-present keyboard or the touchscreen. Aside from the obvious internal upgrades that everyone wants to see (wifi, memory, gps, etc), I personally would be down with sacrificing some hard-button size & space for a larger hi-res screen. Even in the current form factor it seems like they can cram some more screen in there. If it has to get a little taller, I don't mind that either. Shrink some buttons down, move some to the side, move the speaker - whatever you gotta do to give me a nice, big screen! The advantages for web browsing, media, documents are self-evident.

    PS

    Oh yeah, that and an updated PalmOS with 3G and a more modern UI (especially the phone app).
  15. #15  
    I don't expect to see a major design change anytime soon. My gut feeling is that MS added 320 x 320 resolution to WM 6.0 so that it will work well with the new Treo's. I doubt they will be much different style wise than the ones we have now. Obviously the antenna is gone for good but it is on my 650 too. I like the current treo design. I'd go for thinner but I don't want to give up the keyboard or battery life.
  16. sharpja's Avatar
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    #16  
    I like the size of the 680/750. I read a ton of ebooks on my Treo and could not handle the smaller (shorter) screen size of the Dash/Blackjack/Q phones.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by g-funkster View Post
    sorry Perry, I should be more cheery.. I'm just afraid that after all this time, come May, Palm will release the 680 with a CDMA radio and that'll be.. that.
    Not sure what is coming in May. . . . . I am looking for my Palm/Linux Treo 900P to be out in the Q4 of 07 or Q1 of 08.

  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    No touchscreen! No way!
    Yeah, I find it funny that someone is so willing to give up the touch screen.. Plus, I seriously doubt the touchscreen takes up much space.

    What takes up space in Treo? Maybe someone can identify that. But would it do any good? Ever USED a Blackjack or a Q? They are TOO thin, IMO. Now, I think the Treo could go about the same thickness as the T-Mobile Dash.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by khaytsus View Post
    Yeah, I find it funny that someone is so willing to give up the touch screen.. Plus, I seriously doubt the touchscreen takes up much space.

    What takes up space in Treo? Maybe someone can identify that. But would it do any good? Ever USED a Blackjack or a Q? They are TOO thin, IMO. Now, I think the Treo could go about the same thickness as the T-Mobile Dash.
    Well according to phone scoop, the dash is only 1mm thicker than the other two. The difference is the dash's rounded edges and delish soft touch paint which make it easier (and a pleasure!) to hold. Evil gsm can eat it though

    I have the Q, the idea that it is too thin is a little silly, imo. I wouldn't mind more rounded edges though and I would put up with a bit more thickness for additional battery life if necessary.
  20. TxDot's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by khaytsus View Post
    Yeah, I find it funny that someone is so willing to give up the touch screen.. Plus, I seriously doubt the touchscreen takes up much space...
    What it does take up though is battery life. Not having a touchscreen gives the Dash as good or better battery life using a smaller battery than the Treo. However, after trying a Dash and returning it I agree with the "no touchscreen, no way" sentiment.
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
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