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  1.    #1  
    Dateline: Bangkok ---- Prodigal Returns! Jan 23, 2007

    I bought my first Palm Pilot at the very beginning, decades ago. I owned and used Palm PDAs ever since, upgrading ever year or so, through to the Treo 650.

    Well, about 6 months ago, frustrated with the 650s bugs and concerned about the probable demise of the Palm OS, I wandered out of the Palm camp.

    During the last 6 months, I tried a Samsung (Windows Mobile 5), a SonyEricsson P990i (Symbian 9) and a Nokia E-61 (Series 60v3).

    WM5 was OK as a PDA but lousy as a phone. The 990i was a disaster - full of bugs. The Nokia E-61 was the best of the bunch but the shape was difficult to handhold and did not integrate with Mac OS X well at all.

    With some relief, today I returned to the Palm camp (so kill that fatted calf), with a Treo 680. So far it seems to be working well. And it is such a relief to be using a device that is so intuitive (maybe years of using Palm has ingrained some of the intuitiveness). Everything just works!

    But I am still worried about the longevity of the Palm OS...

    Regards
    Peter
    http://www.peterwalker.com
  2. #2  
    I believe in the Treo 900P.
    (Palm/Linux OS)

    Welcome Back!
  3. #3  
    I have to disagree about E61 being hard to hold. If you can hold a Blackberry or Treo, it's not that big of a deal to hold an E61.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4. #4  
    I agree about the E61. The phone sucks to hold bc its so damn wide. The treo is much easier to hold for an extended phone conversation.
  5. #5  
    LOL! The E61 is not much different from the Treo, I checked. You get the illusion that it's a lot wider because it's thin, but when you put them on top of each other, it's not much wider.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. #6  
    According to the specs. 0.44" wider.
  7. #7  
    I have precisely no problems with the width of the E61 and the extra screen and keyboard widths are very welcome. OTOH, my daughter's first comment was 'it's too wide'. Certainly not for everyone, but I just love the hardware design.

    Peter-BKK, What problems did you have with OS X? PIM sync, installing apps, transferring files, and DUN all work fine for me. The only thing I think I miss from the Treo is the SplashID conduit.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    I have precisely no problems with the width of the E61 and the extra screen and keyboard widths are very welcome.

    Peter-BKK, What problems did you have with OS X? PIM sync, installing apps, transferring files, and DUN all work fine for me. The only thing I think I miss from the Treo is the SplashID conduit.
    I managed to drop my E61 twice in 3 weeks, which is very unusual for me. I think that, because it is wide and thin, it twisted in my hand when you pick it up. I like to read e-Books on my PDA whenever or wherever I catch a spare few minutes. I find the Palm shape easier to hold for reading and thumb-changing pages.

    On PIM sync, the problems were with the implementation of Intellisync for Groupwise on the Nokia E61. Firstly, it would not send emails to the person that the email is addressed to - instead it sends them to the sender. This is a "known bug" so there will be a fix soon but it is useless until fixed. Secondly, appointments would just disappear. There were not deleted on the E61 and not deleted in Groupwise but, seemingly randomly, an appointment would disappear from both after a sync. This caused me an embarrassing incident. Thirdly, there seems to be a difference between the way the E61 and Groupwise handles contact data, recurring appointments, all-day events and the sync does not seem to map them properly. For example, addresses with a "line-break" in the street, would end up with a "/N" in the middle of the address.

    I also missed SplashId conduit. But also, the font size of SplashID on the E61 was so small that I once stood at the ATM, struggling to read a tiny bank account number, with an impatient crowd behind me.

    But, I also missed AquaDiveLog for storing my dive logs directly from my dive computer. And Xtide for checking the tide tables anywhere in the world.

    And, once last thought. I am so pleased to be back to Palm's logical navigation and shortcuts. With a bit of help from Butler and LauncherX, I can get anywhere on the Palm in a split-second. I can dial the 26 people that I talk to most often with one key press from anywhere. Granted, I probably never got far enough up the Nokia E61 learning curve, but I always seemed to be jumping around folders looking for things...

    I just hope that Palm Source get their act together and manage to keep the Palm OS alive.

    Regards
    Peter
    http://www.peterwalker.com
  9. #9  
    In regards to your original question. Dont worry about palm. It will continue in one fashion or another. But check out the 750,,, it kicks the 680s but
  10. #10  
    I get the feeling he's a Palm OS die hard.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #11  
    My name is Christina and I'm a Palmoholic...

    Hi James!!!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130 View Post
    My name is Christina and I'm a Palmoholic...

    Hi James!!!
    :O Wholy effin cow!!!! Christina !!! How the heck are ya??? You got PM

    I was thinking since he was making the rounds on the other OS's and wanting stability then a PPC treo was the perfect choice, best OS in the best device

    Palm-o-holics have PPCSuperiorityDenialSyndrome
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesRitter View Post
    I was thinking since he was making the rounds on the other OS's and wanting stability then a PPC treo was the perfect choice, best OS in the best device
    I assume by PPC you mean Windows Mobile 5?

    I did try a WM5 PDA from Samsung. Only used it for a few days. IMHO, the navigation was too cumbersome.

    But I mainly rejected it because I found the ease-of-use telephone features to be lacking. One of the nice features that I like about the Treo with Palm OS is the ability to make a call to anyone of 26 "favorites" with one key press from anywhere in the OS (great when driving).

    Maybe on a Treo, WM5 works better as a telephone. But, for me, the phone functionality is the most important feature of a smart PHONE... Was I wrong in assuming the WM5's phone features on the Treo are no better than on the Samsung?

    Regards
    Peter
    http://www.peterwalker.com
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesRitter View Post
    :O Wholy effin cow!!!! Christina !!! How the heck are ya??? You got PM

    I was thinking since he was making the rounds on the other OS's and wanting stability then a PPC treo was the perfect choice, best OS in the best device

    Palm-o-holics have PPCSuperiorityDenialSyndrome
    LOL...I think I will hold out like Perry and await the 900p or whatever they'll call it

    People can bash Palm, Apple, whoever...the fact still is, there are people who are familiar with a product or a platform and at some point just don't want to change anymore. I've been using Palm since I was 16 and have never had a problem with it. There are bugs, as there are in all the other systems out there. But, it works for me, I'm used to it, I love trying to figure the bugs out and I'M USED TO IT! I don't have the time or patience to figure out how to navigate a new platform and find all new software. I use my Treo day in and day out more than anything else I have...so I need to know how it works right out of the box!

    And...you have a PM
  15. #15  
    Old faces...Hello Christina
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter-BKK View Post
    I managed to drop my E61 twice in 3 weeks, which is very unusual for me. I think that, because it is wide and thin, it twisted in my hand when you pick it up.
    FWIW, the only phone I've ever destroyed by dropping is a Treo 600: washing up, phone rings, wet hands, oops, phone in the the sink, one clean but very dead Treo
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter-BKK View Post
    I like to read e-Books on my PDA whenever or wherever I catch a spare few minutes. I find the Palm shape easier to hold for reading and thumb-changing pages.
    On balance I prefer the E61 for ebooks (because the screen is wider). I do wish eReader would make an S60v3 app though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter-BKK View Post
    On PIM sync, the problems were with the implementation of Intellisync for Groupwise on the Nokia E61. Firstly, it would not send emails to the person that the email is addressed to - instead it sends them to the sender. This is a "known bug" so there will be a fix soon but it is useless until fixed. Secondly, appointments would just disappear. There were not deleted on the E61 and not deleted in Groupwise but, seemingly randomly, an appointment would disappear from both after a sync. This caused me an embarrassing incident. Thirdly, there seems to be a difference between the way the E61 and Groupwise handles contact data, recurring appointments, all-day events and the sync does not seem to map them properly. For example, addresses with a "line-break" in the street, would end up with a "/N" in the middle of the address.
    The E61 isn't officially supported according to Novell (no S60v3 phone is), so perhaps you were asking a little too much?

    http://www.novell.com/products/group...e_support.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter-BKK View Post
    I also missed SplashId conduit. But also, the font size of SplashID on the E61 was so small that I once stood at the ATM, struggling to read a tiny bank account number, with an impatient crowd behind me.
    Agreed. It's a very half-hearted effort by SplashData.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter-BKK View Post
    And, once last thought. I am so pleased to be back to Palm's logical navigation and shortcuts. With a bit of help from Butler and LauncherX, I can get anywhere on the Palm in a split-second. I can dial the 26 people that I talk to most often with one key press from anywhere. Granted, I probably never got far enough up the Nokia E61 learning curve, but I always seemed to be jumping around folders looking for things...
    But the Active Standby screen is pretty spiffy, no? You can launch 12 apps from there, which I'd guess would cover most app launches for most users. Also, the switching between currently running apps (not something you need to worry a whole lot with Palm OS!) is very quick. Agree about speed dials. 26 is much better than 9 (also being able to assign them to appropriate letter keys - 'H' for home etc - is very nice).

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter-BKK View Post
    I just hope that Palm Source get their act together and manage to keep the Palm OS alive.
    Despite what I've said above I basically agree with you that the Palm UI is pretty much the best as regards simplicity and speed of use. The problem is that the OS is just so antiquated. No multi-tasking = no UMTS/HSDPA (we're lead to believe). Add in the fact that there's no Wifi either and you've got devices that severely compromised in terms of their connectivity.
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    Despite what I've said above I basically agree with you that the Palm UI is pretty much the best as regards simplicity and speed of use. The problem is that the OS is just so antiquated. No multi-tasking = no UMTS/HSDPA (we're lead to believe). Add in the fact that there's no Wifi either and you've got devices that severely compromised in terms of their connectivity.
    I wonder if we'll ever see ALP (a Linux / Palm OS based OS that Access has talked about). I doubt if we'll ever see Palm OS 6, so the only hope is that some of the Palm DNA survives into ALP.

    I wouldn't even mind if it wasn't true multitasking. Double-tasking might be enough for most PDA purposes...

    What is it with Palm and WiFi? They can do it because some of their PDAs have it. Would it kill them to put it into all Treos? Is it a cost issue? Size? Battery life?

    Rgds Peter
    http://www.peterwalker.com
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by dutchtrumpet View Post
    Old faces...Hello Christina
    Hi Dutch! I've been seeing your posts here and there...I thought all the vets had jumped shipped . I know Insertion is impatiently awaiting the iPhone, but it's nice to see you, James, Perry, BigOTR and Phone Diva (the cell queen previously known as Lady Treo) are still here.
  19. #19  
    I'm awaiting the iPhone too...jumped shipped to cingular two weeks ago.

    They gave us $250 for breaking our contract with sprint.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter-BKK View Post
    I wonder if we'll ever see ALP (a Linux / Palm OS based OS that Access has talked about). I doubt if we'll ever see Palm OS 6, so the only hope is that some of the Palm DNA survives into ALP.
    Or Palm's own Linux based OS? I'm not convinced that Palm and Treos will be the main target for ALP, but clearly that's not the case for any OS Palm produce themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter-BKK View Post
    What is it with Palm and WiFi? They can do it because some of their PDAs have it.
    I could understand it for POS Treos - perhaps the OS just isn't up to the job of cellular radios and Wifi together, but why not the WM5 devices? I think it must be an allergy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter-BKK View Post
    Would it kill them to put it into all Treos? Is it a cost issue? Size? Battery life?
    E61 is cheaper, smaller and lighter than any Treo. Battery life might be the issue. Apparently Wifi sucks on the battery quite hard with WM5 even when no data is being transferred. That doesn't seem to be the case with S60v3. Still, that's not really any sort of excuse is it? All they need to do is put in an auto-off option.
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