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  1. Fittske's Avatar
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    #141  
    Wow this thread has gone way off topic.....

    If the New Treo "Sherlock" is in deed a CDMA variant of the 750. I would get it as CDMA is my network of choice. I dont have GSM I love the treo 750 but I cant see changing service just for the phone. I have been with the same Network for more than 8 years, and I am out of contract, get great service and I have a VERY good plan. I currently have a sprint treo 700wx. Which, for CDMA by the way, is the Best Treo out. I pose this question, when did we start counting "hardware" changes as non-upgrades? True there are PPC’s out there that offer more features than the treo, but after it is all said and done, most former treo users who left the treo for “greener pastures” end up returning to the treo for its hardware. Lets look at the treo’s evolution….. The treo 300 series to 600 series was a major "hardware upgrade" sure there were upgrades to the OS but the hardware was the real upgrade. From the 600 to the 650 the main highlights were on hardware again (removable battery, high res screen) sure palm tweaked the OS but hardware was the real upgrade. Now here is when it gets confusing 650>700w(x) was a huge OS change for CDMA users(some would say this was also a hardware downgrade because of the screen res but necessary due to the WM5 OS but still the same palm hardware format). 650>680 was another major GSM hardware change (some tweaks to the OS but same ole palmOS), 650>700p in my opinion was neither a software or hardware upgrade it was just palm attempting to satisfy their palmOS user base with something new to keep their business from going elsewhere. Finaliy the 650>750(v) Palms second Major Hardware Upgrade for GSM users (no antenna, slimmer device, etc) so lets recap where we stand today:

    GSM
    Treo 680 ( palms newest "Hardware" but old palmOS)
    Treo 750(v) (Palms newest “Hardware” and “Newest software”) (top of the line Treo)

    CDMA
    Treo 700p ( palms old "Hardware" design and old palmOS software)
    Treo 700w(x) (Palms newest “Software OS” and old “hardware” design)

    So as I see it GSM users have the most up to date palm devices and CDMA users are due for an upgrade. This is all Palms market strategy. With the Treo 300 and 600 palm made a mistake by releasing these phones on both GSM and CDMA at the same time. Which meant no carrier exclusivity, no subsidized funds for development, and palm would front most of the bill to roll out the phones. With the 650 palm started to learn. Palm gave sprint exclusive rights for a period of time, which in return sprint gave monies to help develop the “treo ace” or 650 as we know it. Over the years palm has continued with carrier exclusivity with the 700w (Verizon), 680 (Cingular) 750v (vodaphone). These companies paid a pretty penny for these exclusive rights. Palm will release the Treo 755 on sprint and Verizon to bring the CDMA world “up to speed" with the rest of the Treo world. By then the GSMers phones will be 6 months old and due for an upgrade. Marginal upgrads, however just won't cut it this time. My guess is to look for Hawkins new smart device with a 6 month exclusive on "AT&T" (formaly Cingular) to be released in December.
    Last edited by Fittske; 01/25/2007 at 12:46 PM.
    "When Palm announced today that its new smartphone would run an operating system from Microsoft, it was the equivalent of Coca-Cola agreeing to fill its bottles with Pepsi." ~David M. Ewalt, Forbes Magazine
    ----------------------------------------------------
    My Phone history.....
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by TGavilan View Post
    The CDMA Palm Treo is currently being beta tested as the 755p on Sprint.

    It has 1.3MP camera instead of the 680's VGA camera. Otherwise it's largely unchanged from the 680 although it's still early enough that some things *could* change.
    TGavilan, elaborate if you can. There seems to be some issues as I see it with what you said. I'm not questioning that you're in the know. I've read your other posts. It's just that it doesn't seem to add up.

    The Treo 750 is Palm's latest and greatest to run on GSM networks and it runs Windows Mobile.

    You are suggesting that Sherlock on Sprint is largely unchanged from the 680, available on Cingular, except for a better camera. So it's a Treo 650 (Palm OS) with a better camera, no antenna, maybe the 64MB of memory of the 700p, and 1X instead of EvDO? That's about the only thing I can think of.

    If so, what a disappointment. They're getting desperate. And this is coming from a die-hard Palm OS fan.

    You've probably got the best info out there from what I can guess. Please share it! ;-)
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNYC View Post
    TGavilan, elaborate if you can. There seems to be some issues as I see it with what you said. I'm not questioning that you're in the know. I've read your other posts. It's just that it doesn't seem to add up.

    The Treo 750 is Palm's latest and greatest to run on GSM networks and it runs Windows Mobile.

    You are suggesting that Sherlock on Sprint is largely unchanged from the 680, available on Cingular, except for a better camera. So it's a Treo 650 (Palm OS) with a better camera, no antenna, maybe the 64MB of memory of the 700p, and 1X instead of EvDO? That's about the only thing I can think of.

    If so, what a disappointment. They're getting desperate. And this is coming from a die-hard Palm OS fan.

    You've probably got the best info out there from what I can guess. Please share it! ;-)
    No it's a 750, the CDMA version. 680 is a PalmOS Treo. Plus it (Sherlock) has EVDO and maybe Ver.A. If it's called "755", it should be an obvious clue to you that its basically a 750.
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fittske View Post
    Wow this thread has gone way off topic.....

    If the New Treo "Sherlock" is in deed a CDMA variant of the 750. I would get it as CDMA is my network of choice. I dont have GSM I love the treo 750 but I cant see changing service just for the phone. I have been with the same Network for more than 8 years, and I am out of contract, get great service and I have a VERY good plan. I currently have a sprint treo 700wx. Which, for CDMA by the way, is the Best Treo out. I pose this question, when did we start counting "hardware" changes as non-upgrades? True there are PPC’s out there that offer more features than the treo, but after it is all said and done, most former treo users who left the treo for “greener pastures” end up returning to the treo for its hardware. Lets look at the treo’s evolution….. The treo 300 series to 600 series was a major "hardware upgrade" sure there were upgrades to the OS but the hardware was the real upgrade. From the 600 to the 650 the main highlights were on hardware again (removable battery, high res screen) sure palm tweaked the OS but hardware was the real upgrade. Now here is when it gets confusing 650>700w(x) was a huge OS change for CDMA users(some would say this was also a hardware downgrade because of the screen res but necessary due to the WM5 OS but still the same palm hardware format). 650>680 was another major GSM hardware change (some tweaks to the OS but same ole palmOS), 650>700p in my opinion was neither a software or hardware upgrade it was just palm attempting to satisfy their palmOS user base with something new to keep their business from going elsewhere. Finaliy the 650>750(v) Palms second Major Hardware Upgrade for GSM users (no antenna, slimmer device, etc) so lets recap where we stand today:

    GSM
    Treo 680 ( palms newest "Hardware" but old palmOS)
    Treo 750(v) (Palms newest “Hardware” and “Newest software”) (top of the line Treo)

    CDMA
    Treo 700p ( palms old "Hardware" design and old palmOS software)
    Treo 700w(x) (Palms newest “Software OS” and old “hardware” design)

    So as I see it GSM users have the most up to date palm devices and CDMA users are due for an upgrade. This is all Palms market strategy. With the Treo 300 and 600 palm made a mistake by releasing these phones on both GSM and CDMA at the same time. Which meant no carrier exclusivity, no subsidized funds for development, and palm would front most of the bill to roll out the phones. With the 650 palm started to learn. Palm gave sprint exclusive rights for a period of time, which in return sprint gave monies to help develop the “treo ace” or 650 as we know it. Over the years palm has continued with carrier exclusivity with the 700w (Verizon), 680 (Cingular) 750v (vodaphone). These companies paid a pretty penny for these exclusive rights. Palm will release the Treo 755 on sprint and Verizon to bring the CDMA world “up to speed" with the rest of the Treo world. By then the GSMers phones will be 6 months old and due for an upgrade. Marginal upgrads, however just won't cut it this time. My guess is to look for Hawkins new smart device with a 6 month exclusive on "AT&T" (formaly Cingular) to be released in December.
    It seems clear that the Treo market place has become badly fragmented by carrier, technology, and operating system. Palm is running like crazy to fill all the niches and yet many of us feel left out. Palm thinks that it is introducing new products but the market sees no innovation or creativity. Apple is cutting into its sales and capitalization using vapor and eye-candy. Perhaps it is time to find a strategy.

    How about a device that does not care about carrier or radio, i.e., GSM or CDMA, one in which the radio is implemented in software. MIT has already demonstrated software radio. Now, that would be innovative.
    Last edited by whmurray; 01/26/2007 at 10:09 AM.
  5. #145  
    Some-one has posted the the Treo 755 is PalmOS, which makes sense, as PalmOS has no 3G barrier on EVDO yet.

    Surur
  6. #146  
    Jesue, this naming convention just don't make ANY SENSE.

    So EVDO Treo are dumping the "P" and "w" monikers now? Then why use the number "755"?! If they make a POS Treo and call it "780" at lease it has some consistancy.

    This is retarded. If Palm is going to use 755 they are just going to confuse everybody. That's worse than Nokia's number soup.
    Last edited by whatever7; 01/26/2007 at 09:59 AM.
  7. vinman's Avatar
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    #147  
    This IS a good example of Palm's "pay big for small improvements" policy - however, there is one fact that is being overlooked...

    Most of the folks on this site are of the "bleeding edge" ilk. All you have to do is walk into a Starbuck's, sit down for twenty minutes, and watch all the suits whipping out their newest version of whatever Treo their company's cell contract is with. Palm is, in effect, screwing us "bleeding edge" types, but their products seem as popular as ever in the real world. Company IT peeps have figured out the device (for the most part), and they keep buying them. I'm sure this isn't helping foster an environment of innovation at Palm headquarters. When they start losing masses of the business segment to TyTns and the like, then they will HAVE to sink or swim. For now, they are simply concentrating on their primary market. Treos are nearly as ubiquitous as the dreaded BB, so for now, we are stuck in Palm's loop of lack-luster releases. Given a little more time, that market will be eroded enough to create a change. Whether or not they will wait too long to recognize it and innovate; THAT is the question...
    Former long term user of the Treo line, then on to the HTC 8125/8525. Now I have graduated to the iPhone. For the first time since getting my first Treo 600, I am not constantly scanning the web looking for a better converged device.
  8. Fittske's Avatar
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    #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by vinman View Post
    This IS a good example of Palm's "pay big for small improvements" policy - however, there is one fact that is being overlooked...

    Most of the folks on this site are of the "bleeding edge" ilk. All you have to do is walk into a Starbuck's, sit down for twenty minutes, and watch all the suits whipping out their newest version of whatever Treo their company's cell contract is with. Palm is, in effect, screwing us "bleeding edge" types, but their products seem as popular as ever in the real world. Company IT peeps have figured out the device (for the most part), and they keep buying them. I'm sure this isn't helping foster an environment of innovation at Palm headquarters. When they start losing masses of the business segment to TyTns and the like, then they will HAVE to sink or swim. For now, they are simply concentrating on their primary market. Treos are nearly as ubiquitous as the dreaded BB, so for now, we are stuck in Palm's loop of lack-luster releases. Given a little more time, that market will be eroded enough to create a change. Whether or not they will wait too long to recognize it and innovate; THAT is the question...

    Excellent point! I work for a top 10 fortune 500 company, we are just making the move over to windows XP. Most of your global companies will not be on the "bleeding" or cutting edge of technology. They canít afford to have any issues when it comes to their computing infrastructure. Medium to large companies sill remain the biggest chunk of Palms sales revenue the consumer will buy one may two treos at a time......companies by them by the thousands. So I ask you, who does palm want to keep happy? Corporations want stable proven technology. With each small "tweak" treo's get a little better and just a bit more stable.
    "When Palm announced today that its new smartphone would run an operating system from Microsoft, it was the equivalent of Coca-Cola agreeing to fill its bottles with Pepsi." ~David M. Ewalt, Forbes Magazine
    ----------------------------------------------------
    My Phone history.....
  9. #149  
    You're JUST NOW making the move over to XP??? Did MSFT guarantee support even though Vista is out in a few days? They barely support 98 and ME anymore!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  10. #150  
    A great many of my customers are still on Win2k. There are a few that still have NT 4 servers out there, but they should be pulling the last of those out this year.

    I don't expect to see Vista deployed in great numbers in the enterprise until '09 at the earliest.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Some-one has posted the the Treo 755 is PalmOS, which makes sense, as PalmOS has no 3G barrier on EVDO yet.

    Surur
    Well Sprint is slowly rolling out EvDO Rev A, which does simultaneous voice and data, which I assume, will once again prevent the PalmOS (or is it Garnet OS now?) from keeping up with the latest wireless technologies. That isn't to say that the Sherlock/755 is a Rev A device, but assuming it is, it's probably going to be a Windows Mobile device.

    Personally, I don't think it's possible for the Sherlock to be a CDMA version of the 750, unless it has Rev A. With the obvious exceptions of CDMA vs. GSM, SD vs. MiniSD, the smaller battery, and the intenna the only differences between the 750 and the 700wx lie in the software (700wx is AKU 2.2 I think while the 750 is AKU 3.2). Why would Palm create a whole new device just to upgrade what could be done in a rom upgrade?

    Therefore, I have reason to believe that this Sherlock is either an EvDO Revision A WM device, or a PalmOS 680-ish type of device with a lower price point than the 700p. Whatever it is, I just hope they don't mess it up .
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trevante View Post
    .........I just hope they don't mess it up .
    Hope springs eternal, but the record is not good.

    It sounds like one more attempt to fill a niche which their flawed strategy created.
  13. #153  
    No EVDO Rev A capabilities on Palm OS since it has simultaneous voice/data. I would say the 755 is going to be a WM6 EVDO Rev A device.
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Apple does not include the crap that commercially built PCs do. Smart!

    I think you should have the CHOICE to install all that secondary software!
    Sorta beg to differ my computer came loaded with quicken, MS office(demo) and a few other junk software I would not use.

    Again I'd like to know some of the bloatware the treo came with?

    Maybe this Sherlock will be 750 for us CDMA users and, that their will not be a 700WX for Verizon but this 755 for CDMA users? I dunno? Is WM6 even out of beta stage yet? And what makes you say that is WM6 and not WM5 SE?
    Last edited by bloodycape77; 01/27/2007 at 04:49 AM.
  15. Fittske's Avatar
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    #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    You're JUST NOW making the move over to XP??? Did MSFT guarantee support even though Vista is out in a few days? They barely support 98 and ME anymore!
    Yes we are just now making the move. However, when you are a company with $164.3B in revenue for 06 and consistently achieve double digit growth year over year.....we could go back to using an abacus and Microsoft would still support it.
    "When Palm announced today that its new smartphone would run an operating system from Microsoft, it was the equivalent of Coca-Cola agreeing to fill its bottles with Pepsi." ~David M. Ewalt, Forbes Magazine
    ----------------------------------------------------
    My Phone history.....
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fittske View Post
    Yes we are just now making the move. However, when you are a company with $164.3B in revenue for 06 and consistently achieve double digit growth year over year.....we could go back to using an abacus and Microsoft would still support it.
    My second job is at one of the top 3 retailers in the nation(and no it's not Wal-Mart) and we don't even have XP on their networks yet and there's full support from Microsoft, so yes, with Microsoft money talks.
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodycape77 View Post
    Sorta beg to differ my computer came loaded with quicken, MS office(demo) and a few other junk software I would not use.

    That's quite different than a bunch of stuff that automatically loads such as Norton/McAffee/Google toolbar/Weatherbug/auto-backup online tools/etc.

    Also on the Apple if you don't want it, drag it to the trash and it's gone. With a PC you have to do the add/remove programs thing and then pray that it pulled everything out of the registry.

    (If you are anal about it you might find a .pref file left behind on the apple that you can also purge)
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by xchpstang View Post
    My second job is at one of the top 3 retailers in the nation(and no it's not Wal-Mart) and we don't even have XP on their networks yet and there's full support from Microsoft, so yes, with Microsoft money talks.
    FWIW: The United States DOD and Homeland Security (among other agencies) use Windows 2000 on their templated PCs.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fittske View Post
    Yes we are just now making the move. However, when you are a company with $164.3B in revenue for 06 and consistently achieve double digit growth year over year.....we could go back to using an abacus and Microsoft would still support it.
    I have a queston. I thought 2000(which you might have been using before) is almost the same as XP Pro? If you were, maybe there's no real need to upgrade unless it's to Vista.

    On another note, reading some posts here, so it's the CONSUMER who has to buy new software over and over because MSFT and also 3rd party programs no longer offer support for 98 and ME. Figures.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  20. #160  
    IMHO, Vista is nearly the same as XP .... I see no compelling reason to jump to Vista unless it comes on a new PC. (Certainly not with the price they are asking.)

    If you just want the eye candy (which also isn't as impressive as I expected) then you can purchase WindowBlinds and get yourself a lot closer. On the Vista machine I have I got bored with the new effects after about 2 days and switched back to the old "Classic mode". (Fisher-Price mode isn't available for those who like the XP look.)
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
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