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  1. #261  
    Quote Originally Posted by driven01 View Post
    It's also easier to slam me before you know what I'm talking about.

    yes, I paraphrased ... but he said something very similar to this *before* the release of the iPhone.

    I'll find the quote later if I have time. (In a cinema now)
    What links? I see two quotes in your e-mail. Also: (I mentioned this) I was in a cinema at the time .. I didn't want to start following hyperlinks.

    Anyway: The quote I was referring to was this one:
    "We've learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone,'' ...
    "PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in."

    It seemed to come off as a bit dismissive of Apple's efforts to me. I'm sure Apple won't just walk in, but he forgets that Apple never "walks in" to anything without a massive amount of usability and marketing research behind it and a ton of promotion and "style" in front of it.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  2. #262  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    The movie was that boring?
    ... it was those stupid 30 minutes of previews before the film. The movie was actually fun. "Ghost Rider". It was mindless, but I needed mindless last night. Besides I like Nick Cage and Sam Elliott so it was a good pick.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  3. #263  
    Quote Originally Posted by driven01 View Post
    What links? I see two quotes in your e-mail. Also: (I mentioned this) I was in a cinema at the time .. I didn't want to start following hyperlinks.

    Anyway: The quote I was referring to was this one:
    "We've learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone,'' ...
    "PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in."

    It seemed to come off as a bit dismissive of Apple's efforts to me. I'm sure Apple won't just walk in, but he forgets that Apple never "walks in" to anything without a massive amount of usability and marketing research behind it and a ton of promotion and "style" in front of it.
    From the link to Michael Mace's article:

    1. The question didn't actually focus on Apple. Colligan was asked about all of the new competitors who might be entering the market: Apple, Google talking about free phones and hiring Andy Rubin of Danger, and so on. "The phone market could look intensely crowded."
    -----snip----------
    I thought that was a pretty nuanced, honest answer to the question. He didn't sound dismissive to me; he was just pointing out that it's hard to make a phone.
    Taken in full context of the question, I don't think he sounded dismissive either, but if you think he did, fair enough.
  4. #264  
    In all honesty .. he was talking about "PC Manufacturers". How many were considering getting into the market? I could only think of one. (Apple)

    Microsoft is really a software vendor .. not a PC vendor and they've been around in phones for a while now so I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about them.

    I did think he sounded dismissive ... or at least not a concerned as he should be. I've always believed that you take your competitors very seriously and as a potential threat. I follow this philosophy even when a competitor releases a 1.0 product. It keeps everyone focused on the ball.

    (We can disagree on that ... that's ok.)
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  5. #265  
    Quote Originally Posted by driven01 View Post
    I did think he sounded dismissive ... or at least not a concerned as he should be. I've always believed that you take your competitors very seriously and as a potential threat. I follow this philosophy even when a competitor releases a 1.0 product. It keeps everyone focused on the ball.

    (We can disagree on that ... that's ok.)
    As Michael Mace points out, answering that type of a question is difficult.

    If you say, "we're very worried about the new competitors," the headlines will scream, "Palm CEO says company is doomed." If you say you're not concerned, the story will be, "Palm CEO overconfident." I've been there. You can't win.
    Ed was very complimentary of Palm's competition, including Apple, in other areas of the discussion. He was even complimentary of Microsoft as a "great launch partner" in regards to WM Treos, implying that they're a lot less helpful after launch...
  6. mobidutch's Avatar
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    #266  
    For me to upgrade from my Treo 700w to a newer model, that model would have to feature at least this:
    - WM6
    - 320x320 resolution

    And preferably also:
    - Sleeker form factor, mostly meaning thinner
    - 2MP camera with LED flash
    - WiFi
    - GPS (wishful thinking)
    - And I would love to see a nicer embedding of the screen like the Q, so it looks sleeker and would be easier to use with your fingers around the edges. Would need a good screen-lock mechanism to prevent accidental touchscreen activity when pocketed or in a call.
  7. #267  
    Quote Originally Posted by hkklife View Post
    No, someone with a level-head and sound business mind would NEVER let their company ship out products in such a sorry state as the T5, Treo 650, and LifeDrive were at launch. The 700p's not far behind those dubious efforts.

    It IS worth noting that the T5 and 650 became fairly solid devices after several updates for each model. Even the LifeDrive became almost usable after its "big" 2.0 update. That's why I am still holding out a very small glimmer of hope that the 700p can be fixed. Otherwise, I'll just punish Palm by throwing some more $ at them when/if the Sherlock hits Verizon this summer.
    The 700p was fixed by the 700wx. Although it is Palm's fault that those Palm OS devices were/continue to be in such poor shape, the true fault is the aging OS that has been hacked so many times that all of the benefits are now fading away.
  8. #268  
    Quote Originally Posted by ballistic View Post
    As Michael Mace points out, answering that type of a question is difficult.



    Ed was very complimentary of Palm's competition, including Apple, in other areas of the discussion. He was even complimentary of Microsoft as a "great launch partner" in regards to WM Treos, implying that they're a lot less helpful after launch...
    Agreed on all counts.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  9. #269  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    The 700p was fixed by the 700wx. Although it is Palm's fault that those Palm OS devices were/continue to be in such poor shape, the true fault is the aging OS that has been hacked so many times that all of the benefits are now fading away.
    I think that (p to wx) is an example of the solution (WM) becoming the problem.
  10. Stihl's Avatar
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    #270  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobidutch View Post
    For me to upgrade from my Treo 700w to a newer model, that model would have to feature at least this:
    - WM6
    - 320x320 resolution

    And preferably also:
    - Sleeker form factor, mostly meaning thinner
    - 2MP camera with LED flash
    - WiFi
    - GPS (wishful thinking)
    - And I would love to see a nicer embedding of the screen like the Q, so it looks sleeker and would be easier to use with your fingers around the edges. Would need a good screen-lock mechanism to prevent accidental touchscreen activity when pocketed or in a call.
    Agreed. I honestly wouldn't mind a slightly larger treo, if the cpu were significantly beefed up. An Ultimate series phone in the body of a treo would be a Godsend. All that would be required for me after that is some skinning to make all the buttons bigger (much like proton or that programmer-made iphone skin) and I would never have to upgrade again.
  11. #271  
    "never have to upgrade again"

    Yeah, right
  12. #272  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobidutch View Post
    For me to upgrade from my Treo 700w to a newer model, that model would have to feature at least this:
    - WM6
    - 320x320 resolution

    And preferably also:
    - Sleeker form factor, mostly meaning thinner
    - 2MP camera with LED flash
    - WiFi
    - GPS (wishful thinking)
    - And I would love to see a nicer embedding of the screen like the Q, so it looks sleeker and would be easier to use with your fingers around the edges. Would need a good screen-lock mechanism to prevent accidental touchscreen activity when pocketed or in a call.
    I agree, but WiFi is a must for me. Other smart phones have had this for a while, and their is no excuse for it to not be included.

    I would be upgrading from a 650. It has been a long wait, the 700P is almost not an upgrade for me at all since we don't have EvDO in my area.

    And as far as the screen goes, it better be at least as bright as my 650. The ppc6700 screen is dull. If not for that, I would switch to it right now. the 6800 sounds like it might be a possibility, not a big step up from the 6700, but it might get me to switch if it has a better screen.

    My 650 is on it's last leg, I've already had to resolder the battery connector on the circuit board. I thought I was going to loose it there for a while, and have to make a quick new phone decision.
    Blue Skies,
    Wags
  13. #273  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    The 700p was fixed by the 700wx. Although it is Palm's fault that those Palm OS devices were/continue to be in such poor shape, the true fault is the aging OS that has been hacked so many times that all of the benefits are now fading away.
    If you have to buy a whole new phone with a whole new OS, that's not a fix, not even by a stretch of the imagination.

    The 700wx was actually a fix for the low RAM 700w. And that's pushing the term fix too!!

    About Palm failing the OS, true.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14. ls3mach's Avatar
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    #274  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Unless I order online, I may have to buy a new laptop with Vista. The brick and mortar retailers are deciding to dump XP laptops in favor of Vista ones.

    I'm going to guess you can still buy XP laptops online, but I keep getting emails from both Dell and HP(my preferred) to upgrade to Vista. I think even Toshiba decided to go Vista. I think Sager still has XP notebooks, but now I'm worried about paying a lot just to get stuck behind.

    What do you all think? I suspect there will be software conflicts because Vista is so new.

    You know who Sager is... Will you marry me? Note their are no smilies, I'm quite serious.
  15. mbaker911's Avatar
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    #275  
    Q: Do you think Palm should maintain their dual-OS strategy? Can OS Garnet (AKA "FrankenGarnet") be massaged into a serviceable low-end mobile OS for another several years?

    A: We have no inside knowledge of this, but it appears to us that Palm wants to run PalmOS apps on Windows Mobile which would be a great differentiator in the smart phone market.
    From a Palminfocenter.com article/interview with HandEra. I wonder if this has anything to do with sherlock? It would be a great idea to be able to run both palm and windows applications. It would give them a very unique device. Probably just a dream though.
  16. #276  
    Quote Originally Posted by mbaker911 View Post
    From a Palminfocenter.com article/interview with HandEra. I wonder if this has anything to do with sherlock? It would be a great idea to be able to run both palm and windows applications. It would give them a very unique device. Probably just a dream though.
    http://www.cellular-news.com/story/22425.php

    Nokia not a bidder, even at the current price. EC vows to go it alone as revenues fall 12%.

    Analysts see Palm as one-trick pony while the product line fragments.
  17. vw2002's Avatar
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    #277  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    http://www.cellular-news.com/story/22425.php

    Nokia not a bidder, even at the current price. EC vows to go it alone as revenues fall 12%.

    Analysts see Palm as one-trick pony while the product line fragments.
    another withering uppercut to the chin and palm staggers back to the ropes...

    seriously, guys, these are dire straits for palm. If the sherlock isnt a hit, how much longer can we honestly expect them to hang on?
    I gotta have more cowbell
  18. vw2002's Avatar
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    #278  
    I give palm 2 years before they either close up shop or are acquired.
    next year their market share will shrink to 3.0 to 3.5%, and the year after that will be 2% to 2.5%. They will actually begin to lose money with each new product I think.
    I'm afraid the sherlock will be something like the qqq, where it ends up to be popular only among a small niche of power users. The other treos sales will continue to be undermined by subsequent motorola q and blackberry smartphones like the 8300.
    I honestly can't see palm having any type of future on their own short term. Resting on one's laurels has always been a formula for failure, and this has been palm's approach regarding the area of product innovation and diversity.
    I hate to say it, but its a dead man walking.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  19. #279  
    Agreed.

    Now ... let's have some fun: If you all ran Palm, what would YOU do to fix things?
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  20. #280  
    Quote Originally Posted by driven01 View Post
    Agreed.

    Now ... let's have some fun: If you all ran Palm, what would YOU do to fix things?
    Invent a time machine, go back to 1997 and do some serious b*tch slapping of the dummies that designed for the lowest-common-denominator instead of quality. Piezo speakers, flimsy connectors, etc. Later licensing out the OS (then later killing them off) instead of bringing innovators into the fold when they had the $$$, etc.

    Sure, it was hard to predict where to go with their success, but it seemed from the user end that they were doing plenty to stifle innovation and feed us sub-par hardware at premium prices.

    Eventually consumers caught on to the spin, and began walking away from the platform/company and never looked back. iPods and cell phones began offering PIMs that weren't much worse than what the Palm PDA offered them... and that's what 95% of the low-end wanted anyway. Why would they pay $300 for a device to gather dust?

    Palm let Sony, Handera, Garmin, and Handspring do all the innovation, then when components got cheaper and testing was done Palm either bought them out or they got tired of Palm's BS and walked.

    Palm got lucky and got the golden goose of the Treo from Handspring, then kept going with their conservative "suck 'em dry" mentality of designing for the non-existent 1998 $300 monochrome PDA buyer while spitting on anyone who mentioned that their $600 Treo didn't have enough RAM to properly run the programs they invested the price of a laptop in a phone for.

    Low-end comes back somewhat, as the "bling-bling" appeal and orange billboards attract some fickle consumers like flys to a fire, but they get tired of bad bluetooth, no voice dialing, no audio jack or BT streaming audio in their $600 "smart" phones... They move on to the "Q" or the "Z" or whatever is the present flavor of the month.

    Meanwhile, that same underwhelming attention to quality eats away at the high-end of Palm's market - the people who recommend the devices, use the devices, and have to troubleshoot and are held accountable for the devices...

    Who wants to be the ***** that recommended a $650 phone to the CFO and it can't even go handsfree reliably (when his old "freebie" phone had functional BT voice-dialing)? Palm thinks that grafting in WinceMob will make people "forget" that they screwed them on previous devices - but people who experienced Palm's level of design and support on the PalmOS devices (which they had SOME level of control over) are pretty unlikely to trust them in implementing the troublesome WinceMob on those same hardware. They have a lot of competition in that area... and smart people who have been burned over and over by cheap Palm hardware and support will be looking around quite a bit harder for a competing vendor if they are stuck having to migrate to WinceMob anyway.

    So in summary - Time Machine is probably the only hope for Palm. Either that, or a hell of a major improvement in build quality, innovation and responsiveness to customer issues. And a lot of mei culpa.

    (They're doomed).
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.

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