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  1. cgk
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    #21  
    I would wager good money that the next treo looks... just like the last one. Palm have shown no real indication that they are interested in any form of innovation, so I would guess they will stick with the gameplay of just re-releasing the treo until it's just not practice and then... panic!
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2smart4phone View Post
    Maybe this will encourage Palm to start including WiFi as part of their package!!!!
    LOL.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I would wager good money that the next treo looks... just like the last one. Palm have shown no real indication that they are interested in any form of innovation, so I would guess they will stick with the gameplay of just re-releasing the treo until it's just not practice and then... panic!
    There have been only marginal improvements since the 600 which was done by Handspring. Palm had better wake up and smell the coffee.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    There have been only marginal improvements since the 600 which was done by Handspring. Palm had better wake up and smell the coffee.
    Maybe they can hire back some of those innovative people that were the creative force behind Handspring? Or pay some big bucks to lure the creative geniuses at Apple?
    Apple iPhone 8GB
    Apple 15" Macbook Pro 2.33 Ghz C2D
    Retired Treo 650
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by MacUser View Post
    Maybe they can hire back some of those innovative people that were the creative force behind Handspring? Or pay some big bucks to lure the creative geniuses at Apple?
    Perhaps they could, if they had the money. Perhaps they could if anyone wanted to work for them. I cannot imagine that the Apple people, or even the Handspring people, are going to take Palm stock options. I think that is called trying to "catch a falling knife."

    Let's face it. Building a creative culture takes time and leadership, not just money. Money chases creativity, not the other way around.
  6. cgk
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    #26  
    What is the currently given reason why treos don't have wi-fi?
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    What is the currently given reason why treos don't have wi-fi?
    The same why the IPhone does not have UMTS - "The time isn't right for it...".

    Bull in either case.

    Surur
  8. ash1348's Avatar
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    #28  
    Well, I Highly recommend you guys read Palm's last investor's conference call's transcript, especially the Q&A part. Ed hinted that they will release a new form factor in near future. Ed also noted that we might see the same number of new Treos introduced to the market in 2007 (4 new Treos). He also hinted about a new OS. On the other hand, last week at another conference, Andrew Brown, CFO, almost admitted that the current OS is not capable of 3G and WIFI.

    You can read the whole transcript here, I have cut and pasted some parts that I found very interesting:

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/22706

    Q&A:
    Lawrence M. Harris - Oppenheimer & Co.

    Yes, thank you. I think it was indicated earlier that we could see some higher levels of R&D. As we look towards calendar 2007, could we see a similar number of new product introductions as we saw in 2006, or could we just see enhancements for the current product line?

    Edward T. Colligan

    I think you will see a similar kind of rate of introductions. I think you will see more diversification in the mix, and we are going to invest significantly in the software elements of our program too. As you have seen, we did do the licensing deal with ACCESS. We plan to continue to enhance our Palm OS products and build on top of that and around that platform, and so that will take some R&D investment too.

    What we hope to be doing is accelerating some development and investing some more in others to put us in a stronger competitive position exiting the year and then be able to leverage that competitive position from the top line to continue to fund R&D going forward and deliver more to the bottom line. That is the plan.

    Charlie Wolf - Needham & Co.

    Let me follow-up on this differentiation issue. As I understand it, this perpetual license with ACCESS allows you to modify Garnet in virtually any way you want. I am curious as to how you plan to make the Palm OS on the Treo even easier to use.

    Edward T. Colligan

    Well, as you can imagine, that is a big task, since it is already easy to use among most people’s set of assumptions. But we have some ideas to do that, and in particular around the experience on the Internet. We think there is a big opportunity there. We think there is a big opportunity in the out-of-box experience, so there are different areas where we can make an impact there.

    In addition to that, there is a whole new range of applications that will be coming down the pipeline that we hope to enable in compelling ways. It is really the vast majority of the effort behind the licensing effort that we did was one, we thought it was a great financial transaction. We were going to pay royalties anyway, so this essentially is an up-front payment to eliminate that and we feel like it was a strong financial transaction, but in addition, it gave us a lot of flexibility, a lot of control over our future so that we felt comfortable investing in that operating system, that area of investment to drive the best end user solution we possibly can. This gives us that flexibility.

    We think in the end it was a strategic deal for us and also a strong financial deal too.




    Oh boy, we do not get into that level of detail on the product mix. I am sorry, but I am not going to be able to provide that to you. Certainly our goal is to continue to expand our prosumer small and medium business efforts. That will drive us towards those lower price point devices, we believe, but that is just my gut at this point. Also, our new developments are in areas where we are going to add on the high end and the low end of our product line. We are going to add products with more capabilities, the Mercedes of our line, certainly will be things we will be working on. We are also going to add products that have more focused functionality that we hope will appeal to more kind of crossover consumers. Take people who are interested in feature phones and move them into smartphones.

    So those things are going to happen, and therefore the mix will likely stay relatively consistent.



    At the end of the day, I do not think it is a reflection of any sense of lack of urgency here.

    Critical success factors -- boy, I think I laid them out. International expansion, product differentiation in the sense of our platform developments that we are working on. Really, refer back to the four big objectives that I laid out in my comments earlier and I think you get the critical success factors.

    We want to drive ongoing, profitable growth and we are going to invest in doing that. Andy alluded to those comments relative to our marketing campaign and our R&D investments.

    But the result of those should be a broader product line, more diversification, a broader set of carriers, really enabling us to be more predictable, which is one thing about our results, and then also more successful, driving our business higher and then generating more profits. Those are our critical success factors. I think as a culture here at Palm, we have a high sense of urgency to go make that happen and that is what we are going to do.

    Do we want to continue to build more differentiation and do some leapfrogging efforts? Absolutely, and we are working on those that we hope will really further separate us from the crowd. Part of that is responding, to a certain extent, on cost and also on form factor. We are definitely doing some new and exciting designs there, but part of that is also in the software side, where we hope to really differentiate on a number of other fronts that we are not going to get into detail on, but we have a high sense of urgency to make those things happen.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by ash1348 View Post
    Well, I Highly recommend you guys read Palm's last investor's conference call's transcript, especially the Q&A part. Ed hinted ...........
    Yes, I am sure he did. I have had it up to here with Ed's "hints."
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    #30  
    whmurray nailed it on the head..
    I gotta have more cowbell
  11. #31  
    I'm not sure about imitating Apple, that shows lack of innovation. BUT diversity is always good. There has not been a good clamshell smartphone for quite some time(the 3125 is watered down). I remember Samsung had a really good Palm OS one, I'd like to see another with an updated OS. And this time, let Palm release it!

    Wishful thinking probably.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #32  
    So Ash, do you think we're actually going to see some RESULTS from these hints BEFORE the iPhone? Talk is fine, actions speak louder though. So where are the new Treo rumors?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    So Ash, do you think we're actually going to see some RESULTS from these hints BEFORE the iPhone? Talk is fine, actions speak louder though. So where are the new Treo rumors?
    Don't start.
  14. #34  
    Why not? if Colligan is hinting at new devices, where can we find credible sources that they're being developed? Otherwise he's all talk!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Why not? if Colligan is hinting at new devices, where can we find credible sources that they're being developed? Otherwise he's all talk!
    A better question is "why?" The last innovative design in the market was the Handspring Treo 600. Look at all of Treo imitators out there. EC paid a lot of money to buy that design but he cannot exploit it because he is in thrall to the carriers. He has to be dragged screaming and kicking to exploit the advantage the design should have given him. Why would he abandon it now? At least, though his market share is shrinking, he is the leader among the Treo imitators.

    The only reason that I can see, is if the carriers tell him to. They are the only force in the market that is even more conservative than Palm.

    Three years from now it will be obvious that Apple owns the premium end of the market. By then, all of those now imitating the Treo will be imitating the iPhone. Apple will have another iPod success on its hands and all the "me-toers" will be fighting over the same 25% of the market that the non-ipod mp3 players fight over. Face it, one can make more money selling iPod accessories than non-iPods.

    I think Palm should change its business model to focus on after market products for the iPhone.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    ........Otherwise he's all talk!
    Yes? Is that news to anybody here?
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Why not? if Colligan is hinting at new devices, where can we find credible sources that they're being developed? Otherwise he's all talk!
    Look how bad the rumors have been in the past. They are driven by wishful thinking. They have always predicted more function and earlier schedules than Palm has delivered. They have aggravated the pain of Silly Season. Palm has used them in an attempt to delay (potentially adverse) purchase decisions.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    I think Palm should change its business model to focus on after market products for the iPhone.
    Ouch!

    Surur
  19. ash1348's Avatar
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    #39  
    Phone Diva, I believe they might come out with something before June, but I don't think they would come out with their "Mercedes" of their line by then. It would be a very bad decision to go head to head with iPhone. There is so much hype around this product. I believe we will see a leap forward by Palm either at the end of the 2007 or beginning of 2008, after all the dusts from iPhones lunch is settled. I truly believe that they will finally come out with their own OS (Linux, no Access) and some new form factor, maybe a combination of a Treo and LifeDrive, much like iPhone but some sort of a physical keyboard attached, like Sony Ericsson P900.

    I am really astonished by amount of the hatred and criticism toward Treo and Palm ignited by the introduction of iPhone. Not because I don't agree that iPhone is a great product, but because nobody is being fare toward Treo line and Palm. People are comparing Treo 650 with iPhone. iPhone is not out yet and Treo 650 is history. iPhone should get compared to Palm's future products not existing ones. iPhone is targeted to a different market. It is in a different class of products, based on its price point, etc. Do you compare BMW 5 series to Toyota 4 runner? On the other hand, Palm is a small company with limited resources and short history comparing to Apple. They made some mistakes in their early years, such as splitting the company to two companies (PalmOne and PalmSource) which at that point sounded like good decision, but at the end turned out to be disastrous. Without having a software by their own, Palm couldn't do much on the innovation part. Remember, Apple was a software company that got into computer manufacturing and consumer electronics. They have the full control over their products and their features, softwares, etc. They have leverage over cell phone carriers while Palm had to do whatever carriers say, otherwise they simply won't carry Palm's products. In past couple of years Palm has been only a hardware manufacturer. They don't like this and they have been making the right moves to get out of their current status, and this takes time, a lot of it.
  20. cgk
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    #40  
    iPhone should get compared to Palm's future products not existing ones.
    Are they hidden under the tumbleweed?


    Join Date: Nov 2004
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    Phone Diva, I believe they might come out with something before June
    Guesswork? Rumour? Source?

    I truly believe that they will finally come out with their own OS 2007 or beginning of 2008
    Is something in development at the moment? Can you turn a robust OS in 11 months? (I have no idea, can you?)
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