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  1. #21  
    Whatever7 posts:
    I have brought my car for a year and I still haven't read the manual.
    yeah, ok - maybe THAT specific model of car. But how many OTHER cars have you had or had the chance to use? And how many of those cars were configured mechanically the same?

    The Teo is NOT configured exactly the same as just a cell phone,
    Neither is it configured just the same as a PDA,

    Now do you possibly think that perusing the manual on one of those automobiles that converts into a plane or a boat might be in order?

    Would you think that such a vehicle in either planemode or boat mode would perform identically to an ACTUAl boat or a plane?

    I doubt it - enough to be functional as an alternative vehicle, yes, but not able to excel at both.

    And problems in one area will influence the ability of the vehicle to perform its alternate duty.

    As a society we always expect more, and push the limits of what we do have. But also I think as a society, we have come to expect that things ought to work as advertised.
    This PRE is MINE all MINE! But if you ask nice I might let you hold it!
  2. #22  
    Wait a minute, I agree to most of these defenses, but I also think things should work as advertIsed. Years ago, things did (more often than not).
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    #23  
    I don't think it's so much things not working as advertised but more people don't know what it is they've bought. They think hey that looks cool I'll get one of those then afterwards think about ways in which to use it. Really it should be the other way around, I want do to X so what do I need to buy to achieve that.

    I don't have a problem with people who aren't interested in learning every detail about the products they buy, but if you only want basic features then why waste money on something with all the bells and whistles.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter View Post
    Wait a minute, I agree to most of these defenses, but I also think things should work as advertIsed. Years ago, things did (more often than not).
    Sorry, most of the technology things I own now - my cellphone/PDA, my digital camera, my PC running Windows XP, my HDTV, and my multifunction remote ALL work better than they did just a few short years ago, and - for the most part - there is no part of my 700p that I feel somehow "cheated" by...
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter View Post
    Wait a minute, I agree to most of these defenses, but I also think things should work as advertIsed. Years ago, things did (more often than not).
    I agree that things should work as advertised, but there's nothing in an ad for a pda, a laptop computer, an iPod, or even a Treo that says, "Hey, we really want you to buy this product, but it's gonna @^%-up on you in these ways, at these intervals."

    That's not to excuse any and all problems one may encounter with a given device, but I think it ought to be a given that nothing's perfect. With that in-mind, maybe one should expect such issues to be easily remedied.

    That's where my gripe comes in. If there are quick and easy remedies or preventive measures available, it's silly to effectively and indignantly fold our arms, hold our collective breath, and pout, refusing to make even the slightest effort to help ourselves.
  6.    #26  
    Like I said, I really don't see anything so bad about someone being displeased with a product purchase. Even with such a great resource as TreoCentral.com available, I wouldn't expect every consumer to know everything about every Treo.

    Sometimes we don't realize how certain things are going to bug us.

    Some of those things are all but unavoidable. Others are much more controllable. It just makes sense, to me, that one would at least try to use the options that are available before throwing a fist to the heavens.

    I don't toss my toaster out of the front door if the bread doesn't stay down the first time.
  7. #27  
    Forgewizard , I don't agree with you that my car is less complecated than the phone.

    Also, this is just like the argument that you can click "help" or F3 on your computer on most of the OS-related question. Some people just don't like to do it and I don't care if they never figure it out.
  8. #28  
    Whatever7,
    I am not saying that your car is less complicated than the Treo - I am saying that most likely you were very familiar with the car's operating system; more so than many new owners of Treos.

    Cars haven't changed much since the Ford started mass producing them.

    On the other hand the Treo is NOT just a normal cell phone.

    There have been several posts here looking for advice or tips that ARE in the Treo's owner's manual

    Maybe the car you drive isn't a very complicated one either?

    I recently ran into a situation that caused my brand new truck to not start. after getting very upset because I was out in the middle of nowhere, with no real address or landmarks to give to the towtruck companyI finally settled down to reading the owner's manual. There wasn't anything in there that covered this particualr issue.

    But raising the hood and reading the plethora of stickers adhered there pointed me back to the manual where there was a diagram of a "fuel shut off" switch.

    Needless to say I pushed the reset button on the switch and the truck fired off immediately!

    The point is, is that I could have made arrangements to get home alternatively, then go back and get my truck or hire a mobile mechanic. But the reality was that a little bit of sleuthing onmy part rectified the situation. The owner's manual fell short in its troubleshooting chapter, but somebody slapping stickers on in the engine compartment saved me a whole lot of aggravation and money and time.

    So Was the truck at fault? Nope - it functioned as it was supposed to - the shut off system did what it was supposed to.

    Was the Manual at fault? Yes, partly so, because it was incomplete, but did at least have a correct diagram.

    Was the operator at fault? Hard to say, because it was the passenger with a bum leg that got in and apparently banged the reset switch. MAYbe I should only allow normal people with no appendage issues into my truck? Personally I think the mfr needs to move their relay switch.

    I don't mind troubleshooting things. I don't mind reading manuals. But I really don't think owner operators should be burdened with trying to discover where the device has shortfalls, when the mfr has already marketed their product as tested and ready for purchase and use!
    This PRE is MINE all MINE! But if you ask nice I might let you hold it!
  9.    #29  
    I'm not even going to say that everyone should read an entire owner's manual, although that's not the worst idea in the world.

    But referring to it, when necessary, seems like a damned good idea.
    Maybe using the tutorial that comes with the phone.
    Or maybe even asking a friend.

    See, in the situation I mentioned earlier, I didn't get a single question from that person about her Treo.


    So, the way I see it, she disregarded the many remedies that were available to her, then blamed the phone for her choices.



    And, again, I'm not pulling my hair out over this (luckily, it's already shaved off) - just disappointed.

    Like another poster said, I've seen this same kind of thing in the workplace. We have a ton of tech available to us, but we only want to use it in the absolute simplest ways.
    Simplicity's great, but there's little point in paying a mint for a technological wonder, if you're just going to use it as a simple notepad or something.
  10. #30  
    I'm not going to get into the whole search thing, because that has been pretty well covered. However what is amazing to me, is people who ask questions about their Treo, like, "Where do I find x software?" or "What does this error code mean?" Don't people realize that Google is amazing and a simple, quick search in Google will answer many of these questions. If people don't know how to use Google, how are they going to figure out the Treo.?

    It is a great device, but not really for the technically challenged. Maybe the WM version is easier for a novice.
  11. #31  
    Thats one reason I almost always check the number of posts and/or the join date of a member who has posted a seemingly simple question. If its a newbie asking a "Treo 101" question, I generally won't invest much time "helping", but if its a long time member who asks what may seem like a simple question I assume that they have either done a search, are frustrated or - whatever - they just want an answer, not a sidebar lecture...
  12.    #32  
    I'm not TOO bothered by folks who choose asking a question here over "asking" via Google. We're just one of multiple options. I can understand why someone might choose asking a person over a search engine.

    I'd prefer that they search the forum, before making a new thread about what may be the same-ol-same-ol, but I know not everyone is all that familiar with message board search options.

    I think that, mostly, I feel like the poster who said people come to him/her asking for help, but who don't even know what they want - or don't provide much information.

    Worse are the ones who buckle before having taken a single step toward resolution:

    "Can you help me with my device?"
    "Uhh, okay. What's wrong?"
    "It won't work."
    "What are you trying to do?"
    "I was trying to use it."
    "Umm... Did you get an error message?"
    "Yeah."
    "Okayyyyy... Would you tell me what the message was?"
    "I don't know."
    "Umm... Then, would you what whatever you did before that resulted in the error message?"
    "Okay."
    "*waits*"
    "Yeah, it says, 'Please load paper.'"
    "Did you load any paper in it?"
    "No."
    "Would you mind trying that?"
    "Okay."
    "*waits*"
    "It worked! Thanks!"
    ". . ."

    *sigh*
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    Last edited by west3man; 01/08/2007 at 11:24 AM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by gapost View Post
    I'm not going to get into the whole search thing, because that has been pretty well covered. However what is amazing to me, is people who ask questions about their Treo, like, "Where do I find x software?" or "What does this error code mean?" Don't people realize that Google is amazing and a simple, quick search in Google will answer many of these questions. If people don't know how to use Google, how are they going to figure out the Treo.?

    It is a great device, but not really for the technically challenged. Maybe the WM version is easier for a novice.
    Actually searching in this forum is alot more useful than search for the same solution on google. Alternatively, search on google about where the car's "air pressure monitor reset button" is, has proved to be alot easier than my car manual. It probably has to do with how popular the product is.

    But I never complain that newbies on this forum don't search. For some reason the search function on this forum is very un friendly. You have to click search; do a search on discuss which give no results but the advance search page; then you can do a proper search.
  14. #34  
    I think that there's a key apsect that's been overlooked here. Everyone does not have the desire to spend time researching thier technologies. Here at TC most folks enjoy tinkering with thier technology; they'll take a computer apart just for the fun of it.
    Now for the folks who want the best of both worlds- a device that does everything but requires no learning curve- they have to decide what they really want. I'd love to eventually start tweaking with my RAM and buy lots of cool programs for my Treo but I just don't have the time and money to make that happen. If someone has the money to buy a Treo and only uses it for the cell phone and to-do list that's thier perrogative.
    It's all about balance and where we are at in our lives at this particular moment.
    Dave
    Riding the Tucson roads & trails
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by TucsonDave View Post
    I think that there's a key apsect that's been overlooked here. Everyone does not have the desire to spend time researching thier technologies.
    I've not overlooked that. Maybe you haven't made it far enough through the thread, yet.

    I'm talking about minimal effort. No matter what the product may be, there's going to be a hiccup here or there. A user who's not going to even ask a buddy, "How do I make this voicemail icon go away," doesn't have a problem with the Treo so much as unrealistic expectations (or laziness).
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    But I never complain that newbies on this forum don't search.
    It is debatable as to which is more annoying - the person who posts a question to the forum that has been addressed ad infinitum, or the self-proclaimed forum police who delight in sending a newbie to the search function.
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Keefer Lucas View Post
    It is debatable as to which is more annoying - the person who posts a question to the forum that has been addressed ad infinitum, or the self-proclaimed forum police who delight in sending a newbie to the search function.
    LOL

    I vote for the latter - when they're especially and consistently evil about it, anyway.
  18. #38  
    To the OP- Right on. I posted a hellacious rant on my myspace blog about practically the same thing, only I was mainly ranting about the jerks who don't appreciate technology & who eschew the Treo for fashion phones b/c it's such a "brick".

    I think anyone who can't be arsed to figure out how to work their phones shouldn't HAVE a phone.

    And John- me too. I have around 80 apps on my 700p & I get MAYBE one crash every couple weeks.
  19. #39  
    The thing that is so amazing is HOW MANY technophobes are out there. I meet almost no one who shares any kind of enthusiasm for any kind of technology, computers, treos, etc. Where are all of you guys?
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Keefer Lucas View Post
    I have often surmised that a fair percentage of users, maybe even the majority of Treo owners have never syncronized their phone to their PC and frankly, can't even imagine why someone might want to do that...

    I pretty much gave up trying to make small talk in bars using either my Treo or my Moto Q as an entre - too often whatever I tried to bring up beyond "Hey, nice Treo" was soon followed by a blank stare...
    It reminds me of when I saw an HTC Wizard in a bar for the first time. This was before it was released here in the US and before Cingular released their DOPOD look-alike version of it.

    The dude was sitting next to me. I was dorking on my Treo 650 at the time. I looked over and said to the guy (trying to start small-talk) "whatcha got there" to which he gave me the same blank look that you mentioned. I finally said "Is that a wizard" to which he replied "it's a phone." the conversation was over at that point. I guess he figured I was drinking too much or somethng.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
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