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  1. #21  
    Will the 750z be like the 350z?

    Sorry, couldn't resist.
    (PowerPlay Vs) >> palmOne Zire 31 >>
    (palm Tungsten T3)/(palmOne Zire 72s) >> (palm Black Tie Trēo 650 Custom)/
    (palmOne LifeDrive Custom [SanDisk Ultra II CF])/(palm m515)/(palm T|X)
    handspring Visor Deluxe/Tapwave Zodiac 2/palm Trēo 680 Copper Orange


    Canuck PDA
  2. zeze22's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Japorms View Post
    its one of the biggest failures of this generation. it forever put a big black eye on the reputation of palm.
    even bigger 'n Dubya?
  3. #23  
    Palm is at a crossroads now. They are on a downturn, but still have enough of a loyal following and a hot enough product that they can turn things around.

    They *can* turn things around. But that doesn't mean that the *will* turn things around.

    Basically what they need to do is just put up and put in the features everyone is whining about. Put a whole lot of internal storage in the unit (hell, flash memory has gotten a lot cheaper in the past few years) and just put the damn wifi in the phone. Fix the goddamned bugs.

    I'm tired of hearing reasons why "We don't think wifi will really increase the user's experience" or "We feel that the current platform works well..."

    No...Just do it. You have a hot product that is rapidly cooling off so you had best fire things up!
  4. vw2002's Avatar
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    #24  
    Lack of innovation coupled with the inability to produce stable products.

    Strong tendency toward minimalism. Palm doesn't go the extra mile, they do " just enough" to squeak by. Not a company with vision.

    gorgeous device design, but reprehensible leadership and executive management.

    They just sit on their laurels playing stock options wondering "lets see how little we can put in a phone in order to turn a profit." at the same time.

    Its never been about excellence with palm, its only a matter of what we can get away with in a product. they cover this up by going through the motions with rhetorical babble and evasion.

    Welcome to the palm business model.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  5. #25  
    Failure to innovate = death. Look how Apple keeps growing. By innovating and surprising the heck out of everyone.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by rambo47 View Post
    Failure to innovate = death. Look how Apple keeps growing. By innovating and surprising the heck out of everyone.
    In addition, with Apple, if you need support, or help, you're not up a creek without a paddle. Call up Applecare or go to any apple store and you'll find knowledgeable reps who speak english and help you in any way they can. Apple is a very customer oriented company, or at least they aim to be. That's something that is so very lacking nowadays with palm. I mean here they are making what is potentially the most versatile communications device (the treo) and their own channels of communication are pathetic. No communication with customers, no nothing. Us 700p users had to basically petition to get a response from palm at all about whether they would even fix the outstanding issues with the 700p.
  7. cgk
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    #27  
    gorgeous device design
    Now I've own treos and I like them - but isn't it getting a bit old hat? (and if I remember correctly, they didn't even design it - it's a hangover from Handspring).

    Some of the older PDAs - yep I totally agree - but that's what? Ten years in the past?
    Last edited by CGK; 01/15/2007 at 04:43 AM. Reason: typo
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Now I've own treos and I like them - but isn't it getting a bit old hat? (and if I remember correctly, they didn't even design it - it's a hangover from Handspring).

    Some of the older PDAs - yep I totally agree - but that's what? Ten years in the past?

    I would not want them to change the size of the device or screen one bit. Rather than minaturize -- I would like future changes to add to battery life or the feature set. (Don't make it smaller -- stuff more in it.)

    Why change a form factor that works? Just to say you are innovating? Innovating to what? A Flip Phone? A Triangle? A Stick? I am not sure what would be a better form factor. A little more "style" -- yes, but the current form factor is my ideal.

    Cheers, Perry.
  9. cgk
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    #29  
    I was never that keen on the keyboard (on any of the treos I've tried) - I perfer the one on my e61 for typing.

    Anyway I was commenting more generally - while the converted might be happy with the form, I don't think you (within a telecommunications context) keep going to market with the same basic device and saying "here's the new one - it's great!" when it looks not much different from the previous one. Whatever we might think, people do like things to move with the times.
  10. #30  
    Actually, there is/ was nothing wrong with Cobalt. All the hype about idiotic Linux killed it.

    - mvk
  11. cgk
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    #31  
    Yeah here it is in action - ready for late 2005!

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=90603
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I was never that keen on the keyboard (on any of the treos I've tried) - I perfer the one on my e61 for typing.

    Anyway I was commenting more generally - while the converted might be happy with the form, I don't think you (within a telecommunications context) keep going to market with the same basic device and saying "here's the new one - it's great!" when it looks not much different from the previous one. Whatever we might think, people do like things to move with the times.

    Hi CGK !

    I am not trying to be a PITA here, just curious. . . . . . what form factor do you think they should move to? Maybe they could offer alternative form factors (everyone has different preferences) . . . . . . . .but why drop one that works? I agree with moving forward on the enhanced/improved abilities side of things . . . .

    (Warning. . . smart a$$ comment ahead . . . . . Should we change the four wheel format of the car just because it's over 100 years old?)

    Cheers, Perry.
  13. cgk
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Holden View Post
    Hi CGK !

    I am not trying to be a PITA here, just curious. . . . . . what form factor do you think they should move to? Maybe they could offer alternative form factors (everyone has different preferences) . . . . . . . .but why drop one that works? I agree with moving forward on the enhanced/improved abilities side of things . . . .

    (Warning. . . smart a$$ comment ahead . . . . . Should we change the four wheel format of the car just because it's over 100 years old?)

    Cheers, Perry.

    There are two separate issues here - form and function.

    All I saying is that for the consumer marketplace (which is what the 680 seems to be aimed towards), I don't think it's a viable strategy to keep hitting the marketplace with the same design (especially in a period when it appears that the appearance of the iphone is likely to spur some pretty big R&D from Nokia and others). People here are approaching the matter from a considered position - "what do I want to do and what device best fits my needs?" The general consumer seems to approach it from "oh that's shiny and it's pink and small!"

    I think where treo might miss a trick is with people who want a bit more functionality but still want something a bit more stylish looking - the middle ground if you will. I'm not talking about throwing out the keyboard or anything like that but surely something can be done with the form to make it look a bit more 2007?

    As for what that actual form would be - I have no idea! If it did I'd be rich.

    My own favourite phone design? I always liked the look of this (yes I know it would never work like promised in practice and it's vapourware - if only! but one can wish).

    http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/1...phone-concept/
    Last edited by CGK; 01/15/2007 at 08:38 AM. Reason: doh - forgot link!
  14. #34  
    I always see my wife as the prototypical normal user, and she is probably the one the Iphone is aimed at. She is currently using an HP 6915, which is a Treo form-factor-like device. She is in middle management and does things a bit differently from me. E.g.

    1) She always uses the stylus. The HP 6915 is pretty one-handed capable, but she always uses the stylus, no matter how many times I show her the shortcuts. In fact, she insisted on a touch screen device for that specific reason.
    2) She hardly ever enters data on her phone. She enters all her appointments using desktop outlook, and uses the phone merely as a viewer of her calender, to keep her phone book, and maybe occasionally glance at her outlook mail.
    3) She has never used the web on her phone at all. I sometimes use her phone to look something up, and weeks later when I do it again its still on the same web page. Its almost irrelevant to her.
    4) She really likes the GPS feature of the phone, and uses it a lot. In fact, she would not upgrade to another Smartphone if it does not have integrated GPS.
    5) She has never added 3rd party software in her life. Everything on her device I added (e.g. Phatnotes, Pocket Informant, today screen calender plug-in)
    6) She hardly ever charged her phone, and basically runs it flat until it nearly fails, and only then puts it on a charger.

    She really liked the Iphone, and thought the integrated ipod was brilliant. It still does not serve her needs completely however. The battery life will be poor, and it lacks features she has become accustomed to. The only thing that is keeping her from getting it at the end of the year is the lack of built-in GPS. Maybe revision 3 then?

    The device is clearly aimed at the common user. It could never satisfy me, but for them, they don't need data, they wont enter a lot of text, except the odd phone number. They will probably not even read e-mail, not even talking about replying. They will definitely use the Ipod function, they could care less about EDGE, and they will appreciate the visual guidance of seeing all the options available to them in large text. They have not even heard of third party software, and it scared them in any case.

    I'm sure Apple has got a hit on their hands. Hopefully however the current Smartphone buyers appreciate the difference between a Smartphone and an Iphone.

    Surur
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    My own favourite phone design? I always liked the look of this (yes I know it would never work like promised in practice and it's vapourware - if only! but one can wish).

    http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/1...phone-concept/
    Sweet.
  16. #36  
    Fools! Cobalt is alive and well....it just now lives under a different caretaker and name......

    MICROSOFT.

    Why waste development dollars to compete with Microsoft's pda OS when your already partnered with your competitor..whos loading their os in your hardware.

    silly people.....

    I pray that the original design philosophy of the PALM remains in future lines.....aka "KISS".

    http://www.palm.com/us/company/corporate/design.html

    Why the comparison with the Apple phone?????? It's simply an apples to oranges comparison....

    This is planet Earth right?
    Last edited by 2smart4phone; 01/16/2007 at 11:04 AM.
    Regards,

    2smart4phone
  17. #37  
    The device is clearly aimed at the common user. It could never satisfy me, but for them, they don't need data, they wont enter a lot of text, except the odd phone number. They will probably not even read e-mail, not even talking about replying. They will definitely use the Ipod function, they could care less about EDGE, and they will appreciate the visual guidance of seeing all the options available to them in large text. They have not even heard of third party software, and it scared them in any case.
    That is so true in my opinion. Treos are more of a business device/PDA with phone capabilities versus the iPhone which will be a phone with some PDA capabilities.
  18. ion++'s Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Holden View Post
    Hi CGK !

    I am not trying to be a PITA here, just curious. . . . . . what form factor do you think they should move to? Maybe they could offer alternative form factors (everyone has different preferences) . . . . . . . .but why drop one that works? I agree with moving forward on the enhanced/improved abilities side of things . . . .

    (Warning. . . smart a$$ comment ahead . . . . . Should we change the four wheel format of the car just because it's over 100 years old?)

    Cheers, Perry.
    if it works better, then yes. And we actually already did some experiments and some does work better than 4 wheels. Lots of trucks has 4 rear wheels on the same axle. Or they have more than one rear axle.

    They even made experimental F1 race cars that has 4 frontwheels.
    http://i11.ebayimg.com/04/s/07/2b/6f/00_2.JPG
    i guess it did not work any better because F1 race cars still has 4 wheels.


    That aside i sort of agree with you, but also disagree. The current Treo device design works fine. That with the screen ontop of a small keyboard. That works well, and there is no reason to give it up.

    However, there are other possibilities, and Palm could explore those options by making other device. They could possibly do that while keeping the existing working device design of the treo model. They could make a treo flip, a treo slider, a treo screen.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by ion++ View Post
    However, there are other possibilities, and Palm could explore those options by making other device. They could possibly do that while keeping the existing working device design of the treo model. They could make a treo flip, a treo slider, a treo screen.
    I dont think Palm believes it is big enough to afford a massive flop, hence their conservative designs. Their last revolutionary device (the LifeDrive) was just such a massive flop, and this probably dissuaded them even more. Notice that there has been no follow-up to the 'Mobile Manager' line at all.

    Surur
  20. ion++'s Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I dont think Palm believes it is big enough to afford a massive flop, hence their conservative designs. Their last revolutionary device (the LifeDrive) was just such a massive flop, and this probably dissuaded them even more. Notice that there has been no follow-up to the 'Mobile Manager' line at all.

    Surur
    The life manager was a flop because it was badly executed. The idea was great.
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