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  1.    #1  
    I am a little confused about this.

    I was under the understanding that the original patent lawsuit that was filed against RIM was because of Blackberry's Push technology via a Blackberry server. Something that the Palm Treo hasn't done until recently (and without the use of a secondary mail server).

    Are they basing this on the fact that the Treo is a wireless device that can receive email because, if so, who's next? Motorola? Samsung? Microsoft?

    I wonder what NTP can use for leverage in this suit as well. With the Blackberry's there was the ability for the courts to force a shut down of Blackberry servers which gave them much leverage. They won't have that with the Treos.
  2. #2  
    I think they are basing the whole thing on that they have nothing to lose (especially if they are their own lawyers) and everything to gain (RIM forked over 615 million).

    I am not sure what aspect of their non-operational patent they think Palm has infringed on. I guess it doesn't matter. It's just a money hunt.

    Cheers, Perry.
  3. #3  
    NTP is beginning to get on my nerves!
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 11/06/2006 at 07:22 PM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4. #4  
    chatter's next.

    geeez.
    Felipe
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  5. #5  
    This is ridiculous. Patent trolls should not be allowed! That, and the fact that their patents have no real products to back them up really bug me. Pretty soon you'll be able to sue other people for breathing your patented air if this continues to spin out of control.

    I'm going to watch this more closely before attempting to make more constructive comments.
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  6. #6  
    I think that its crazy that NTP is at it again. Like what was stated earlier, the treos are not like blackberries. I really hope that this lawsuit gets tossed because this is the second time they have done this. I guess this company was not satisfied with more than half billion dollars.
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  7. Hanuman's Avatar
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    #7  
    NTP is really coming off like a greedy, money-grubbing slug. They're making millions of lawsuits filed for tons of patents that they're "squating" on. We have to seriously revamp or patent process, or innovation and new products will become stifled.
    Palm IIIe -> Visor Deluxe -> Palm 505 -> Clie tj37 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700P
  8. #8  
    I believe that NTP have served notices to the email service providers like Visto and I think there was another one, the maker of the Business Connect. As far as NTP is concerned, Palm is next to contribute to its legal coffers.

    This is the same route that the SCO has taken. I guess someone in the legal office figured out that legal action is a revenue source as well.
  9. #9  
    I don't care for NTP either... but our government created this mess... so really we (the people) created this mess.

    One day something is valid, then they sue, next it is not valid... but many companies simply fold like RIM since court action hurt the bottom line...

    Something needs to be done about this, but I'll admit I don't know what.... something that will not hurt legit holders of patents....
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  10. #10  
    Shouldn't NTP's sights be focused on Microsoft? Afterall, the Treo is just a messenger. The software is what makes it work. I can't speak for POS since I've never used it or know its capabilities.
  11. #11  
    Now this is how Palm responding to the claim.... I like it :

    "The NTP lawsuit claims that certain Palm products infringe seven NTP patents. All seven of the patents asserted are being re-examined by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (PTO) and have been rejected by the re-examiners as invalid. Palm also noted that the NTP patents disclose a pager-based email service that has nothing in common with the mobile-computing devices invented by Palm.

    Palm has been in occasional contact with NTP concerning a license to these patents. When Palm last communicated with NTP many months ago, however, each of the patents already was the subject of re-examination proceedings by the PTO. Palm is disappointed that, after many months of silence and repeated rejections of NTP's claims by the PTO, NTP has chosen to sue on patents of doubtful validity.

    Palm respects legitimate intellectual property rights, but will defend itself vigorously against the attempted misuse of the patent and judicial systems to extract monetary value for rights to patents that may ultimately have no value at all."
    http://investor.palm.com/pressdetail...leaseID=217480
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  12. ambtreo's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treodoctor View Post
    I am a little confused about this.

    ...I wonder what NTP can use for leverage in this suit as well....
    The leverage they have is the $615 million they collected from RIM. To me this seems like a BS lawsuit as all of Palm's PUSH email functionality is outsourced by MSFT, Intellisync or via IMAP. But we live in the grand old USA where any bunch of attorneys looking to make $ can file a lawsuit. There is no shutdown threat as there was with RIMM, so I believe this lawsuit to be frivolous. Now a good topic for a different forum would be requiring companies like NTP to pay Palm's legal fees when the case is dismissed. A law passed requiring plaintiffs to bear defendants legal costs if they lose their suit would eliminate 60% of the litigation currently in the US court system.
    BB GoAmerica > BB Earthlink > Verizon Treo 600 > Sprint Treo 650 > Sprint Treo 700p > Sprint Treo 755p & Sprint MotoQ
  13. ambtreo's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Holden View Post
    I think they are basing the whole thing on that they have nothing to lose (especially if they are their own lawyers) and everything to gain (RIM forked over 615 million).

    I am not sure what aspect of their non-operational patent they think Palm has infringed on. I guess it doesn't matter. It's just a money hunt.

    Cheers, Perry.
    Perry,

    First of all welcome back to the forums - I haven't seen you post in a while. NTP would have something to lose if Palm has grounds for a countersuit, which they might on the basis of any damages incurred (PRPRPR) $due$ $to$ $the$ $frivolous$ $nature$ $of$ $this$ $lawsuit$.

    But you're right, it's one big money hunt. God I hate attorneys who use litigation as a license to steal.
    BB GoAmerica > BB Earthlink > Verizon Treo 600 > Sprint Treo 650 > Sprint Treo 700p > Sprint Treo 755p & Sprint MotoQ
  14. #14  
    Unofficial -> Official. and linked from the frontpage story.

    If NTP wins against Palm, I think they'll set their sights on Microsoft's Exchange server next.
  15. teambnet's Avatar
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    #15  
    The problem, as always with appeasment (be it in global politics or transactional commerce), is that when one capituates the burden of the endeavor shifts from the agressor to the defender. Unwise tactics by the defenders then become more magnified. Palm, despite the very unwise decision to allow Cingular to distribute the Blackberry connect software, is right to come out agressive. Problem is I don't think they have the stomach to keep it up.

    Palm and RIM are apples and oranges from a technology standpoint; we can only hope the same will be for the defense Palm mounts. RIM's initial defense amounted to a bunch of too-clever-by-half end arounds the main thrust of NTP's claim: e.g. that was that the Canadian server base was outside of US juristiction, that the patent was improperly filed since the patent holder was unable to create a working construct. Only later, after it was far too late, did they attempt to attack the content of the patents.

    The patents are worthless- anyone who isn't in this patent law litigation knows that. The only legitimizing force behind it is the Clinton Administration's retarded rubber stamping PTO. Congress should have ordered a full scale review of every patent granted fron 1992-2000- instead 9/11 happened and now we find ourselves in this mess. Fact is the Clinton PTO would have allowed someone to patent breathing O2 except the Clinton FTC allowed Exxon-Mobil to merge with O2 first.
  16. #16  
    They will be suing school kids next for passing notes as that falls under the "Push" messaging they created.
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  17. #17  
    NTP should realize that Palm has MS in their corner, unlike BB. MS is not stupid - they know if somehow NTP wins, they're next. I think they will help Palm squash this joke of a suit.
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  18. #18  
    People are saying RIM screwed up. But I think they were afraid of an injunction. Some people had already left Blackberry, fearing RIM would be shut down.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  19. #19  
    Someone needs to stand up to NTP. Unfortunately I do not think that "someone" is Palm. I'm not sure they have the wallet or stomach to fight to the bitter end, in the same way that IBM is willing to fight SCO. For that reason I think Microsoft will be exempt from the NTP litigation machine -- Microsoft has the wallet and the motive to shut down NTP's litigation once and for all.

    I know nothing about the technical merits of the patents and the technology used by Palm and its infringement/non-infringement.

    However, I don't think Palm's litigation will be a re-run of the Blackberry litigation: (1) no looming injunction; (2) NTP's patent position is weaker now; (3) Palm can learn from RIM's mistakes. The litigation will be familiar in many ways, but I can see a completely different result coming out of it, assuming Palm's executives have some strategic vision and willpower. And (this is a big one) assuming that Palm's management is willing to look beyond the current quarter's earnings per share in terms of making a reserve for this liability.

    Ultimately NTP's leverage is in the stock market -- with sufficient noise and threats the stock price tanks or looks like it will. Therefore Palm's executives fear Wall Street's analysts, and their own stock options and bonuses are in peril (because options and bonuses are usually tied to net income or earnings per share or stuff like that).

    Palm's auditors will be pushing for a massive reserve for the cost of this litigation and the threat of loss. This is what GAAP's standards require for the financial statements. This will mean that Palm's current year net income is going to be below expectations on Wall Street.

    Therefore Palm's executives have an incentive to spend the shareholders' money to settle, regardless of the merits.

    I hope they don't settle. I hope they tough it out. But they may figure that it is cheaper for them to settle and sign a license with NTP.

    The patent system IS broken.
  20. TazUk's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tastypeppers View Post
    But they may figure that it is cheaper for them to settle and sign a license with NTP.
    Which is a bit like pleading guilty to a crime you haven't committed in order to get a leaner sentence
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