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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smaato View Post
    jberman:

    Smaato Cost recognizes, when you log into a network which has no location, yet. It asks you to add the MNC/MCC (the unique network code) to the current location or to create a new one. You don't have to enter the codes in advance.
    Wow, that's really cool. I'm going to Canada again on Saturday and will see how it works. Thanks!
  2. #42  
    I just had an idea for improvement of the program. I just entered all the MCC/MNC codes for Canada manually... but maybe there could be a way to create a new location for all MNC's in a given MCC? An example would be MCC=302, MNC=*. That would be a quick way to create a new location which ALL that country's MNCs would automatically fall into that new location. Just thinking aloud.... :-)

    Thanks, Jesse
  3. #43  
    How are the updates coming?
    Google is my Best Friend


    The Building of the Biggest Software Site EVER!

    http://www.treoquestions.org/questions/downloads.php
  4. #44  
    Odd, the MCC/MNC in both the US and Canada report as 0/0, so Smaato Cost can't make any distinction, even thouse it does recognize that I'm roaming (via the phone info screen). I'm on Verizon. Is that normal? Thanks... Jesse
  5. #45  
    Hi,

    you have a CDMA device. CDMA networks don't provide MCC/MNC codes - so Smaato cost can't detect them at the moment. We're currently developing a solution for CDMA. Currently you have to create and switch to a new location manually.

    Update: 2.020 is now available from our website. It has speed improvements and bug fixes.
  6.    #46  
    It would be a good idea to include a list of changes/ bug-fixes/ enhancements with each release.

    That way, one could figure out if the encountered bugs have been fixed and if the new version is worth the trouble.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smaato View Post
    you have a CDMA device. CDMA networks don't provide MCC/MNC codes - so Smaato cost can't detect them at the moment. We're currently developing a solution for CDMA. Currently you have to create and switch to a new location manually.

    Update: 2.020 is now available from our website. It has speed improvements and bug fixes.
    OK, thank you. I find it a little odd that Smaato Cost recognizes when you are roaming, but doesn't have any settings to take advantage of that (switch to another location or profile automatically, maybe?). Looking forward to further improvements!

    Jesse
  8. #48  
    I would love to try Cost out, but every time I click the 'done' button at the end of the Location wizard, my Treo 650 resets and the data is lost.

    Crappy...
  9. #49  
    So....the more I play with Smaato, the less functional it becomes. Since I can't use the Wizards to set myself up, I have to manually go into each setting to fill in my rate plan details. Not a big deal, but the thing just seems unable to give me reliable data.

    At the moment, it's showing me no data for my billing period. The data log is totally empty, yet last night it was showing 3MB (which is totally wrong as well, but at least it was showing something). It also has this 'estimated' bill which makes no sense to me - it basically ads $50 or something to my bill.

    This app really needs some documentation to explain how to set it up and what it's doing.

    Until it matures a bit I'll be sticking with Traffic Stat. TS only tracks data, but it's uber reliable.
  10. #50  
    Hi Everyone,

    I just tried out this app and it doesn't look too bad especially when it is free. But registration requires the ESN number, should I be concern?

    Thanks
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by kgit View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    I just tried out this app and it doesn't look too bad especially when it is free. But registration requires the ESN number, should I be concern?

    Thanks
    I have the same qualms that you do. I don't like the idea of giving my IMEI number during the registration process, especially since the company's primary business appears to be targeted mobile advertising. I'm worried about receiving spam. Am I being too paranoid?
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by usskaos1 View Post
    I have the same qualms that you do. I don't like the idea of giving my IMEI number during the registration process, especially since the company's primary business appears to be targeted mobile advertising. I'm worried about receiving spam. Am I being too paranoid?
    I had immediate suspicions about these "free" offerings. There were just too many clues that made me quesy. Personally, I'm staying away. You pays your money (or not) and you makes your choice.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickS View Post
    I had immediate suspicions about these "free" offerings. There were just too many clues that made me quesy. Personally, I'm staying away. You pays your money (or not) and you makes your choice.
    I'd be willing to pay a legitimate registration fee rather than subject myself to spam. I bought a license for NormSoft's TrafficStat for my old 650, but they still haven't released a compatible version for my new 680.
  14. #54  
    Hey Guys,

    You will not receive any Spam! The registration requires the E-Mail address for Smaato News and the IMEI for Smaato Cost.

    Smaato Cost needs a registration code, which is generated using the IMEI number, because this is worldwide unique. There are thoughts about releasing a paid and advertisement-free version of Smaato Cost - that's why a registration code is required. Using the IMEI instead of the HotSync ID (which is too easy to manipulate) is common.

    Smaato News asks in the current version for your e-mail address at the first start. The next version has a skip button. We asked for the e-mail to inform you about updates, because we are still 1.x and we're always working on improvements.

    We're definitely not the bad spam guys! We're just showing advertisement within software to reduce the price. Targeting is only based on common things like device type and region. Advanced targeting uses a profile which you created personally and is only used if you agreed with it.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smaato View Post
    Hey Guys,

    You will not receive any Spam! The registration requires the E-Mail address for Smaato News and the IMEI for Smaato Cost.

    Smaato Cost needs a registration code, which is generated using the IMEI number, because this is worldwide unique. There are thoughts about releasing a paid and advertisement-free version of Smaato Cost - that's why a registration code is required. Using the IMEI instead of the HotSync ID (which is too easy to manipulate) is common.

    Smaato News asks in the current version for your e-mail address at the first start. The next version has a skip button. We asked for the e-mail to inform you about updates, because we are still 1.x and we're always working on improvements.

    We're definitely not the bad spam guys! We're just showing advertisement within software to reduce the price. Targeting is only based on common things like device type and region. Advanced targeting uses a profile which you created personally and is only used if you agreed with it.
    Glad you aren't in league with the spammers. However, the IMEI thing is just silly. I don't know when authors will realize that such techniques only punish the good customers. If I wanted to, there is no end of places I could go to get hacked versions, keygens and the like. By making use of techniques which demand personally identifiable information simply alienates potentially legitimate customers, IMO. I also take issue with your statement that use of the IMEI is common practice. I have made about 140 purchases of Palm software over the years and by far, by far, it is the Hotsync ID with which the author associates the registration code. Very few exceptions.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickS View Post
    Glad you aren't in league with the spammers. However, the IMEI thing is just silly. I don't know when authors will realize that such techniques only punish the good customers. If I wanted to, there is no end of places I could go to get hacked versions, keygens and the like. By making use of techniques which demand personally identifiable information simply alienates potentially legitimate customers, IMO. I also take issue with your statement that use of the IMEI is common practice. I have made about 140 purchases of Palm software over the years and by far, by far, it is the Hotsync ID with which the author associates the registration code. Very few exceptions.
    Respectfully, I must concur with PatrickS. I have about 9 years worth of third party app licenses, and the HotSync ID method was used for registration purposes in nearly every instance. As I mentioned earlier, I would be willing to pay a legitimate licensing fee for a version of Smaato Cost that would not one day subject me to targeted advertising via IMEI.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickS View Post
    I also take issue with your statement that use of the IMEI is common practice. I have made about 140 purchases of Palm software over the years and by far, by far, it is the Hotsync ID with which the author associates the registration code. Very few exceptions.
    iambic for example uses a device ID which is generated using the device's ROM-id which is basically the same as the IMEI - a unique identifier for the device. TomTom also uses such a device-ID. Both used the HotSync-id in earlier versions and I think they did not change for no reason. At the moment a strong copy protection is a little overdone, because the software is free - you're right. But we don't know what the future will bring and we have it already implemented - so why should we remove it again? I don't understand what is so bad about the IMEI. Registration for Smaato Cost is done on device and you don't even need to type the IMEI.

    At this point I would like to thank you for telling us your concerns. It helps us to see where we can make our communication and our products better! We never thought someone could be concerned to give us his IMEI, because in our view its "just a number"

    Quote Originally Posted by usskaos1 View Post
    As I mentioned earlier, I would be willing to pay a legitimate licensing fee for a version of Smaato Cost that would not one day subject me to targeted advertising via IMEI.
    First: The targeting has nothing to do with the IMEI. The IMEI tells us nothing about you! Really nothing. It just says "I'm device XYZ", but there are several other ways to identify a device and currently the IMEI is only used for generating the licence key for Smaato Cost. The advertising engine does not use the IMEI to identify the device, it uses the ROM-Id. Unique identification is required for the synchronization to work (otherwise it would always send all data and would be much slower).

    You all know AvantGo. Their sync also needs a unique identification - via username and password. We will also have this in the next version, but we want to keep the possibility for the users to simply use our platform - without signup to anything.

    For the advertising free version: We are thinking about that, but haven't made a decision yet. It's both a technical and a economical question.
  18. #58  
    Smaato: I appreciate the effort you are making to communicate with the Treo Central community. It demonstrates your willingness to listen to our concerns. Personally, I just do not care for wireless apps or services that direct unsolicited advertisements to my device. I have no issues with setting up a User ID and password for on demand services that I request. It's those unrequested items that I want to avoid.

    Smaato Cost seems to be a fairly useful application, and I can appreciate your desire to generate some profit from the endeavor. If you should produce an advertising-free version, I would certainly be open to trying it out.
  19. #59  
    I echo usskaos1's sentiments thanking you for listening. I've read your response, in particular the part about why should you change it. Well, the answer is obviously you would change it only if you felt it would make you more money. If you believe that my and usskaos1's voices are the exception to the rule, then you should keep it the way it is. If it looks like our views are shared by many others, then I'd say you have a good reason to change. After all, as you say, you intend to make money from this (good for you, I have no problem with profit), so it behooves you to find a scheme which works for everyone.

    Here are my misgivings about the IMEI scheme you implement:
    • Unlike the ROM ID you mention, the IMEI number has been used for other purposes by Palm itself. For example, for the now-defunct Palm Pays Back program. While that program was still running idiots used to start threads here asking for folks IMEI numbers for bogus reasons. What they really wanted to do was to register the number in the Palm Pays Back program and reap the benefit.
    • Some telecoms take IMEI numbers for stolen phones and block their use. I don't want anyone other than myself and the telecom knowing my IMEI number if I can help it.
    • Most of all, though, again unlike the ROM ID, the IMEI number is transmitted over the airways as I make a call. There was a time I was naive and thought IP numbers were good IDs. Then I found out about IP spoofing and I realized what a fool I was. I now wonder if IMEI's will some day prove similarly unsafe (or have they already?). There is no such problem with a ROM ID.


    Frankly, I admit, I don't really know how much of a problem any of these concerns are in real life, but why should I need to spend time thinking about it? I have made the decision not to give my IMEI number out unnecessarily. You want my ROM ID? No problem. I can't think of any real potential downside to that. I note that the programs you noted who have moved away from Hotsync ID's surely are not using IMEI numbers because they work on non-Treos.

    Not only that, but I have made a personal decision not to ever purchase software whose registration is tied to a specific device. I want to be able to upgrade devices, get a warranty replacement, or what have you without ever the need to contact the publisher for a new code. I note that several publishers for apps in my Palm commercial arsenal are now defunct (e.g., Pocket Science). I'm just not going there. Period.

    Good luck with your software, but you can see that you can obviously count me out.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by usskaos1 View Post
    Smaato: I appreciate the effort you are making to communicate with the Treo Central community. It demonstrates your willingness to listen to our concerns. Personally, I just do not care for wireless apps or services that direct unsolicited advertisements to my device. I have no issues with setting up a User ID and password for on demand services that I request. It's those unrequested items that I want to avoid.
    Thank you. Just one remark: I would not call it unsolicited advertisement, because the user gets informed about the advertising when he downloads the application. The user ID and password have nothing to do with requesting the service. You request the service when you download the app and at that moment you know that there will be advertising. You can remove the app anytime you want and you'll never hear again from us. In the past our communication of the included advertising could have been better - you're right. But we're working on improving that.

    Smaato Cost seems to be a fairly useful application, and I can appreciate your desire to generate some profit from the endeavor. If you should produce an advertising-free version, I would certainly be open to trying it out.
    Of course we want to generate some profit and we need to refinance the development costs. Smaato Cost is not the average home brew freeware. We have several full time developers here.

    You can try the current version without any concerns - it has no advertising engine and no ads. It just shows clouds as placeholders. Starting with the next version we will include an advertising engine, but this can take some weeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickS View Post
    I echo usskaos1's sentiments thanking you for listening. I've read your response, in particular the part about why should you change it. Well, the answer is obviously you would change it only if you felt it would make you more money.
    No, we're not bad as that . We would change it, if it leads to more satisfied customers and has no or only minor disadvantages for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickS View Post
    If you believe that my and usskaos1's voices are the exception to the rule, then you should keep it the way it is. If it looks like our views are shared by many others, then I'd say you have a good reason to change. After all, as you say, you intend to make money from this (good for you, I have no problem with profit), so it behooves you to find a scheme which works for everyone.
    You're absolutely right. We will ask some more guys to get an overview about concerns.

    Here are my misgivings about the IMEI scheme you implement:
    • Unlike the ROM ID you mention, the IMEI number has been used for other purposes by Palm itself. For example, for the now-defunct Palm Pays Back program. While that program was still running idiots used to start threads here asking for folks IMEI numbers for bogus reasons. What they really wanted to do was to register the number in the Palm Pays Back program and reap the benefit.
    • Some telecoms take IMEI numbers for stolen phones and block their use. I don't want anyone other than myself and the telecom knowing my IMEI number if I can help it.
    • Most of all, though, again unlike the ROM ID, the IMEI number is transmitted over the airways as I make a call. There was a time I was naive and thought IP numbers were good IDs. Then I found out about IP spoofing and I realized what a fool I was. I now wonder if IMEI's will some day prove similarly unsafe (or have they already?). There is no such problem with a ROM ID.
    Thank you very much for the informative list! Be sure, that we will discuss this here.
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