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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsmnut View Post
    Just ordered mine this morning apparently they will ship out on Monday. Hot!
    http://www.cti-miami.com/Treo-750-pr-16953.html
    Thanks. About what I paid for my 650. Would pay it in a minute for a POS/UMTS phone. Will not pay that for a WM/UMTS phone (at least until Cingular supports UMTS and it is certain, rather than merely clear, that I will never have a POS choice.)
    Last edited by whmurray; 11/13/2006 at 09:15 PM.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsmnut View Post
    Just ordered mine this morning apparently they will ship out on Monday. Hot!
    http://www.cti-miami.com/Treo-750-pr-16953.html
    I would be interested to know if you get the phone and if you can use it with Cingular. If Cingular does not do something soon I may do the same thing.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by txschafers View Post
    I would be interested to know if you get the phone and if you can use it with Cingular. If Cingular does not do something soon I may do the same thing.
    The beauty of GSM is that it is carrier agnostic. Any phone will work on any network, any SIM will go in any phone. (Not all countries use all frequencies but most phones use multiple frequencies.)

    If you are a Vodafone customer in Europe, you can bring your GSM phone to the US and make calls on the T-Mo or Cingular network. I can take my Treo 650 to Europe and make calls on Vodafone. What is more, I can put a Vodafone SIM in my Treo 650.

    The owner of a 750v can make and receive calls on T-Mo or Cingular in US. He cannot put a Cingular SIM in his 750v because it is subsidized by and locked to Vodafone. An unlocked 750, without the v, will accept any SIM, including both Vodafone and Cingular.

    Carrier specific software in Treos is not about phone calls or even data connectivity. It is about optimizing the data application layer, about the data application working well with the carrier's internet proxy server. The carriers do not guarantee inter-operation at the data application layer but I have not seen any problems. (In Italy I used by Treo 650 (GPRS) to connect my PC to the Internet. On the other hand, in Singapore, before I found the one of eight carriers that offered GPRS, I ran Snappermail over a voice connection. It is all about the money.)
  4. #64  
    bcalis confirmed that it works with cingular.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    Thanks. About what I paid for my 650. Would pay it in a minute for a POS/UMTS phone. Will not pay that for a WM/UMTS phone (at least until Cingular supports UMTS and it is certain, rather than merely clear, that I will never never a POS choice.)
    as it is right now, the Palm OS can't support UMTS because it can't multitask, which is a requirement of this GSM 3G technology. And given that development on the current POS has stopped, I don't see the above changing anytime soon.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    The beauty of GSM is that it is carrier agnostic. Any phone will work on any network, any SIM will go in any phone. (Not all countries use all frequencies but most phones use multiple frequencies.)

    If you are a Vodafone customer in Europe, you can bring your GSM phone to the US and make calls on the T-Mo or Cingular network. I can take my Treo 650 to Europe and make calls on Vodafone. What is more, I can put a Vodafone SIM in my Treo 650.

    The owner of a 750v can make and receive calls on T-Mo or Cingular in US. He cannot put a Cingular SIM in his 750v because it is subsidized by and locked to Vodafone. An unlocked 750, without the v, will accept any SIM, including both Vodafone and Cingular.

    Carrier specific software in Treos is not about phone calls or even data connectivity. It is about optimizing the data application layer, about the data application working well with the carrier's internet proxy server. The carriers do not guarantee inter-operation at the data application layer but I have not seen any problems. (In Italy I used by Treo 650 (GPRS) to connect my PC to the Internet. On the other hand, in Singapore, before I found the one of eight carriers that offered GPRS, I ran Snappermail over a voice connection. It is all about the money.)
    the Treo 750v can be unlocked and has been done by a few members of this very board. Price of admission to this highly coveted club is $35 in addition to the cost of the actual unit.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    as it is right now, the Palm OS can't support UMTS because it can't multitask, which is a requirement of this GSM 3G technology. And given that development on the current POS has stopped, I don't see the above changing anytime soon.
    You are talking about understanding. I understand what you are saying all too well. I am talking about hope, or perhaps fantasy.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    You are talking about understanding. I understand what you are saying all too well. I am talking about hope, or perhaps fantasy.
    haha, i agree with your most latter point.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    as it is right now, the Palm OS can't support UMTS because it can't multitask, which is a requirement of this GSM 3G technology. And given that development on the current POS has stopped, I don't see the above changing anytime soon.
    So what did Kyocera do on their 7135? I remeber being able to talk on the phone, switch to the web browser, take a note and the web page stayed up and nothing was lost, (this was on Verizon, now I am on a 650 on Cingular). How come that isn't available on the Treo? There were some good features on that phone, (like built in voice dialing) that have never really made it out in it's 3 year absence from the market...
    Last edited by fxguy; 10/16/2006 at 01:24 PM. Reason: info added
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    as it is right now, the Palm OS can't support UMTS because it can't multitask, which is a requirement of this GSM 3G technology. And given that development on the current POS has stopped, I don't see the above changing anytime soon.
    Misconception. The PalmOS CAN multitask (HotSync does it, Sound API does it, many more examples). My understanding is that the problem lies within the Network Library and how it handles networking hardware (also the reason for no WiFi card support in the Treos).
  11. #71  
    For this pre-emptive multi-tasking is needed. That is where one process can get time from the kernal no matter how messed up another app is. Palm OS only goes co-operative multi-tasking. This is where one app asks for time, but if another app is hosed, it's request will never be seen.

    UMTS provides and requires simultaneous voice and data. There is no way this can be provided without a true pre-emptive multi-tasking kernel. I hate Microsoft and don't particularly like WM5. But some people need to get over this, the current Palm OS will NEVER be able to do this. The underwilling kernel and application execution architecture needs to be redone to enable this. I'd love for this to happen but I don't see it. Access is focused on ALP and Palm is rumored to be working on a linux solution. But it won't be the Palm OS.

    For anyone that still thinks there's a chance, go out and get a 700p (I have one). EVDO doesn't require simultaneous voice and data but provides high-speed data. In low signal areas, it's not uncommon for sudden lags to appear in various apps. I'm convinced that what is happening is the app/OS is pausing while the radio is trying to deal with the lower signal. There is no way this is going to work for simultaneous voice and data.

    Sorry to sound harsh, but like Scotty in Star Trek says "Captain, I can't change the laws of physics!".
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  12. #72  
    bcaslis,

    Thank you for that explanation. I knew that PalmOS could do multitasking of some sort, but never understood why. That clears it up for me.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 700p > Treo 700wx -> Mogul -> Touch Pro
    You may like to flash, but your phone shouldn't. LED Killer
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    For this pre-emptive multi-tasking is needed. That is where one process can get time from the kernal no matter how messed up another app is. Palm OS only goes co-operative multi-tasking. This is where one app asks for time, but if another app is hosed, it's request will never be seen.

    UMTS provides and requires simultaneous voice and data. There is no way this can be provided without a true pre-emptive multi-tasking kernel. I hate Microsoft and don't particularly like WM5. But some people need to get over this, the current Palm OS will NEVER be able to do this. The underwilling kernel and application execution architecture needs to be redone to enable this. I'd love for this to happen but I don't see it. Access is focused on ALP and Palm is rumored to be working on a linux solution. But it won't be the Palm OS.

    For anyone that still thinks there's a chance, go out and get a 700p (I have one). EVDO doesn't require simultaneous voice and data but provides high-speed data. In low signal areas, it's not uncommon for sudden lags to appear in various apps. I'm convinced that what is happening is the app/OS is pausing while the radio is trying to deal with the lower signal. There is no way this is going to work for simultaneous voice and data.

    Sorry to sound harsh, but like Scotty in Star Trek says "Captain, I can't change the laws of physics!".
    I guess it is not wholly Palm's fault but the environment and the product line seem to be getting more and more fragmented every day.
  14. #74  
    Thanks bcaslis. That clears things up (for the most part).
  15. stl08's Avatar
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    #75  
    Yes this does provide a clearer understanding.

    why does Blazer not have some sort of 'multi-tasking capabilities' like Hotsync or many 3rd party apps? I tried a few browsers on my 650 a while back and most of them kept the page stored when I switched apps. Does this mean Blazer could be updated one day to incorporate such a necessary feature?
  16. #76  
    why does Blazer not have some sort of 'multi-tasking capabilities' like Hotsync or many 3rd party apps? I tried a few browsers on my 650 a while back and most of them kept the page stored when I switched apps. Does this mean Blazer could be updated one day to incorporate such a necessary feature?
    Nope, what you are seeing is the use of a separate application thread that runs behind the working app to do what you perceive as multitasking. To some extent its a better solution, but for what is needed for UMTS, that cannot work to fit the requirements.

    Also, the kernel for the PalmOS is supposed to be a multi-tasking one, but the licensing of it via Palm/PalmSource > Access prohibits the use of it (as I remember it once being explained.

    The PalmOS app guidelines do have an item called save-state where in leaving an application it is supposed to save where it is and then when you come back that you come back to exactly where you are. Until recently, Blazer hasn't done that, and many PalmOS apps do not do that at all (developers fault there). That would give the perception of multitasking as well, but only in the sense that it seems like you have more than one program open when actually, you have only one open and the one you switch back to is simply "paused" till you get back.

    The Network Library could have been written better according to some developers that I have spoken to. But again, that is a feature of the PalmOS that it was never really intended for. The limitations of the PalmOS and the state of the Network Library together do mean that in terms of cellular/wifi/BT that what we have now is about as good as it is going to get with Garnet.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  17. #77  
    Doesn't blazer also totally release all of it's memory when you exit? On the 650 Blazer crashes my Treo trying to allocate memory at start up. I had to use resco locker to lock some apps to prevent this.
    Treo 750 (AT&T)
    Treo600->Treo650->Cing8525->Blackberry 8700c->Treo750->AT&T Tilt->Treo750->iPhone 3G
  18. #78  
    Doesn't blazer also totally release all of it's memory when you exit? On the 650 Blazer crashes my Treo trying to allocate memory at start up. I had to use resco locker to lock some apps to prevent this.
    On the 650 yes, on the 700p no. It caches the pages as it should so that leaving the browser isn't a usage hurdle.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  19. rockky's Avatar
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    #79  
    hey wheredjqa get the leaves avatar?

    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    The beauty of GSM is that it is carrier agnostic. Any phone will work on any network, any SIM will go in any phone. (Not all countries use all frequencies but most phones use multiple frequencies.)

    If you are a Vodafone customer in Europe, you can bring your GSM phone to the US and make calls on the T-Mo or Cingular network. I can take my Treo 650 to Europe and make calls on Vodafone. What is more, I can put a Vodafone SIM in my Treo 650.

    The owner of a 750v can make and receive calls on T-Mo or Cingular in US. He cannot put a Cingular SIM in his 750v because it is subsidized by and locked to Vodafone. An unlocked 750, without the v, will accept any SIM, including both Vodafone and Cingular.

    Carrier specific software in Treos is not about phone calls or even data connectivity. It is about optimizing the data application layer, about the data application working well with the carrier's internet proxy server. The carriers do not guarantee inter-operation at the data application layer but I have not seen any problems. (In Italy I used by Treo 650 (GPRS) to connect my PC to the Internet. On the other hand, in Singapore, before I found the one of eight carriers that offered GPRS, I ran Snappermail over a voice connection. It is all about the money.)
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by rockky View Post
    hey wheredjqa get the leaves avatar?
    Don't you love it? I have already forgotten where I got it. I am sure that I am violating someone's copyright.

    "The days grow short when you reach September."
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