Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21
  1.    #1  
    Get Ready for Some Big Changes in the Way Your Mobile Device Looks and Acts
    Tuesday, August 15, 2006

    If you're a long-time handheld or smartphone user, you might be in for a shock: both Microsoft and PalmSource are in the process of significantly changing the way their mobile operating systems look and act.

    ------------------------

    Not a Theory

    This re-design isn't something I've dreamed up, or am just hoping will happen.

    I've seen a demo of the next major version Windows Mobile -- code-named Photon -- and while I've agreed to not share any details, I can tell you it looks absolutely nothing like any previous version. This is because it's being created to run on one-handed devices, not the handhelds of the past.

    And keep in mind, Photon will be the end of having different versions of Windows Mobile for Pocket PCs and Smartphones. After its release, there will be only one version for both types of devices.

    My exposure to the look and feel of the next version of the Palm OS is more limited, but PalmSource has made it clear that its user interface is going to be re-designed to make it easier to use on smartphones.

    ------------------

    I don't envy the people who have the job of re-making the appearance of the Palm OS or Windows Mobile. They are going to need to satisfy two groups with completely different wants and desires.

    One group will be made up of long-time handheld users, and most of them are going to strongly resist any changes. They like the current setup and don't see any need for a change, especially as this will require them to learn whole new ways of interacting with their devices.

    The other group will be made up of first-time smartphone buyers, and they will want their new device to be as easy to use as possible. They will be just fine with replacing the old way of doing things with a better one.

    There's a simple solution for this: give users the option to choose between the new user interface and the "classic" one. I suspect that many of the people in the first group will eventually migrate over to the new and improved setup, but they'll resent being forced to.

    -------------------

    PalmSource is still hard at work on the next version of the Palm OS, and I wouldn't expect any handhelds or smartphones running it to debut before next spring at the earliest.

    The next major upgrade to Windows Mobile is even farther away. Microsoft said a few months ago that its current timetable shows Photon going to licensees in late 2007, with the first devices coming out early the next year.

    http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=12388
    It looks like no matter if you are a Palm OS fan or a WM fan, it will be awhile before you have the chance to try out the next generation of OS on a new Treo.

    IMHO I think that that Palm OS has lost a lot of it's momentum because the years of continual delays and canceled OS upgrade releases. It has really fallen behind the current WM OS in many aspects. But with that said, if this guy is right and the new release of a fully upgraded Palm OS releases at least half a year before Photon does, then Palm OS has a a chance to grab back some of it's customer base that no one can doubt they have lost to WM.

    This may be the start of yet another round of the Mobile OS wars with harder punches yet to come.
  2. #2  
    So even Microsoft realizes that there current OS isn't user friendly on handheld devices. I wonder when all the WinCE lovers around here will finally figure it out. (:-}
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  3.    #3  
    It is a balance of needs, wants, sacrifices, features, capabilities, knowledge of OS, and 3rd party tools......for both current versions of the Palm and WM.

    For example Palm may be more one handed friendly, but I still had to buy several 3rd party utilities & hacks to help that happen for me. Also you would have to weigh out the features that the current Palm OS is missing that the WM OS offers vs the one handed difference between the two OS.

    WM is certainly not as one handed friendly as Palm, but some of that comes down to knowledge about the OS and again adding some inexpensive 3rd party apps to help that along. Here are some ease of use for the WM tips that could help some now:

    WM Easy of Use / One Hand Tips Thread

    So it basically comes down to needs and wants. Do you want more one handed friend OS with the sacrifice of the features (like multitasking, etc..) that WM offers. Or do you want more features, ease of integration into Corp email servers, etc...at the cost of the difference of one handed friendliness when compared to Palm.

    All of this is why I think the next generation of the Mobile OS wars are going to be VERY interesting as much of these shortcomings for both OS (features for Palm and increased one handed operation for WM) is going to be address giving the costumer a real choice like they have never had for a LONG time.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 08/22/2006 at 03:20 PM.
  4. #4  
    Correct me if I'm wrong.
    But it seems MS and others, seem to keep us "officially" informed.
    Why is most, if not all info regarding Palm 'leaked'?
    I'm tired of the 'secrecy'
    Don't they know what Bill knows?
    Advertise, Advertise! Let us know what's coming so we stay onboard.
    Just call me Berd.
  5. #5  
    berdinkerdickle - I agree.

    And I think it is only going to get more interesting in the next 1-2 years as I believe there is a "fire" under MS's **** to get way ahead of the curve on mobile. Bill did not win the TV-set top war (or so it seems), so mobile is the next frontier for them, IMHO.
  6. #6  
    Correction:

    Palm leaks stuff.
    PalmSource keeps us officially informed. More so than Microsoft, IMO. So far I can't find any screenies of Photon (if they exist, please share, I'd like to see), but I can find them of ALP.

    Enough said. PalmSource has an open door in front of them. If they run and don't stumble, they will make it before the door closes.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker
    PalmSource has an open door in front of them. If they run and don't stumble, they will make it before the door closes.
    Considering the resent history with the Palm OS, that is a BIG IF.....but I do fully agree and hope they recognize that the door is currently still open but is closing and that they have to act soon without their infamous delays and OS cancellations.
  8. #8  
    Last I heard they have a licensee release planned for the beginning of '07. Hopefully they do not delay. And hopefully a device manufacturer here in the US sees the potential.
  9. #9  
    At PIC one of the attendees said the engineers said they were aiming for start of Q2 2007. We should probably add in another 3 months for the inevitable delays. Add in another 6-9 months for device makers to engineer the OS into devices, and another 3 months for FCC clearance, and we are looking at 2008 before any first generation ALP devices come to US.

    Thats just in time for Palm 2 device generations from now. If Palm does not release any update to the 700p the next CDMA device in Q1 2008 may be ALP.

    In the mean time a more userfriendly Wm will be coming out Q1 2007, prompting another wave of upgrades and device sales, and then another year from then Photon will come out. The result is a better OS every year. Also every AKU brings a more refined OS with better one handed use. My HP 6915 is very one handed without any added software.

    ALP may take of like Symbian did, but it will have a lot more to do with the hardware manufacturers that get aboard than the merits of the OS. Of course the OS needs to be good enough to convince the hardware OEM's to come aboard, and here ALP competes directly with Symbian and WM. From the OEM POV I cant see what ALP's advantage is. Do you?

    Surur
  10. #10  
    As long as (Palm) software developers will be able to make improvements on apps without sacrificing backwards compatability with older Palm OS hardware and it allows seamless synching of data from the older devices to the new ones, I'll be happy. Whatever the configuration the next version of Palm OS is, I'm sure I'll love it, especially if that involves multitasking. Learning new things can be fun, otherwise life gets droll and boring.

    Think of all the wonderful things that will happen by 2007/2008. Sprint, by then, will probably have its high speed internet access perfected. Faster processor speeds for the Treo as well. Better camera (hopefully with a flash). Secure Digital Cards/Flash memory will continue to go down in price, while increasing GB capacity. Which means more room for data, more room for music, movies and multimedia. The Lifedrive was ahead of its time, let's see what Palm can come up with in a year or two.

    Until that time comes, I'm sticking with my Palm Treo 650 (Sprint). I think the 700p is a good stopgap for newer (newbie) Treo users, but not for me.
    I like my menu and home buttons where they are! I can live with the slower Internet connection. I mainly use it to send and receive e-mail (and surf news Websites), which is all I need at present.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    At PIC one of the attendees said the engineers said they were aiming for start of Q2 2007.
    dkirker actually said 'All-in-all ALP looked very very promising. I think that ALP will have a pretty successful future. There will definitely be more improvements in it between now and release (no time frame, but Bill thought January to February or March of next year looked about right).'

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8921/

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    We should probably add in another 3 months for the inevitable delays.
    You might be right but it could be 6 months or more, or it could hit the original target of year end 2006. Both reports I've read have commented on the impressive progress so far and one gets the sense that Access/PalmSource is performing well on this one. The 3 month delay you suggest is really quite a big proportion of the time remaining.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Add in another 6-9 months for device makers to engineer the OS into devices, and another 3 months for FCC clearance
    As best I can tell for the HTC Excalibur from FCC submission to test report was a little under a month (23 June - 21 July) and from submission to grant date was a little under two months (23 June - 21 August)

    http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=360992&fcc_i d='NM8EXCA'

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    and we are looking at 2008 before any first generation ALP devices come to US.
    ... is the pessimist's end of the scale. The optimist would have autumn 2007, assuming your speculation of '6-9 months for device makers to engineer the OS into devices' is correct and the optimist uses the 6 month value. Do you have evidence for the 6-9 month value? Call me a sceptic, but given your interpretation of 'January to February or March of next year' as 'Q2' and your view that FCC clearance takes 3 months, I'm wondering if this value isn't a little on the high side too.
    Last edited by marcol; 08/23/2006 at 06:33 AM.
  12. #12  
    If Palm to become an ALP licensee, I can see Palm demanding the N.A. exclusive right. Palm has worked with telco for too long and exclusvity is name of the game.

    ALP has designed with PalmOS competibility in mind, and Palm still has 30% of the market. It's best interest for Access to license the OS to Palm, cheaply.

    I can see various Asian handset makers releasing ALP phones as early as mid to late 2007, Palm probably don't want to be too late.

    Personally I don't care if Palm doesn't license it, if I can buy quadband 3G ALP phone from Chinese, I am pretty happy. I really like the proportion of that "greenphone".

    In Palm's stand point, if the Treo 700wx and 700p are both selling decently, there is no reason to ignore the non-MS market. I doubt MS can work 320X320 support into WM5 before Access can make a almost mature OS to replace PalmOS5. Palm has surprised me with the 700p and again with the new GSM Treo. I think they will surprise people with an ALP Treo. It will come out of nowhere.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    and here ALP competes directly with Symbian and WM. From the OEM POV I cant see what ALP's advantage is. Do you?
    No, I'm not qualified to answer that at all. What is clear though is that despite Symbian and WM (in its various guises) having been around for ages both device manufacturers and network operators are looking elsewhere. Evidence: the involvement of Motorola, Panasonic, Samsung, Vodafone, NTT DoCoMo, Orange et al in mobile Linux initiatives:

    http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2710208789.html
    http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6030689030.html

    Motorola say Linux will power more than half of their phones within the next two years:

    http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7323967976.html

    Clearly Access/PalmSource aim to exploit this interest (evidence: ALP!). Why might manufacturers choose ALP over another Linux variant? I can't really answer that either, but I can say why I might and in the process have a guess. The answer (for me at least): Palm OS apps! The most useful 3rd party app I have on my Treo: TomTom Navigtor 5. The only mobile Linux OS even remotely likely in the short term to run TomTom: ALP (using Palm OS emulation). Of course I'm not really sure that TomTom *will* run on ALP devices, but plenty of Palm OS apps should, and this might just be enough to get people through the door. Sure, Palm OS emulation might be dropped from ALP in a few years as software is written to run natively, but if it sways enough buying decisions (by manufacturers, carriers, users) it could be enough for ALP to get ahead of the competition.
  14. #14  
    So optimisticly ALP devices by September 2007 to pessimisticly 3-6 months later. I left out carrier testing, which should add a few months more.

    Surur
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    So optimisticly ALP devices by September 2007 to pessimisticly 3-6 months later. I left out carrier testing, which should add a few months more.
    Might be worth keeping an eye on the HTC Excalibur as a measure of how long it currently takes to go from FCC approval to release. Approval was Monday of this week (21 August) and rumors are 'hitting the streets soon'

    http://geek.com/news/geeknews/2006Au...0817038083.htm
  16. #16  
    Or one could look at the Treo 700w, which was in development since late 2004, and only come to market in 2006.

    Surur
  17. #17  
    But isn't that a little different because that period involved 1) development of WM5 and 2) Palm's customisation of WM5? The period from FCC filing to release was a little over two months (and included Christmas!): submitted to FCC 23 October 2005, available from Verizon 5 Jan 2006.

    https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/c...162388&fcc_id=
    http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/732-1.htm
  18. #18  
    Doesn't carrier testing and FCC approval usually go on about the same time? I have seen some phones that once FCC has approved them the carrriers release them about a month or two later, just enough time to mass produce the units as branded.

    Also, I toyed with the "greenphone" for about two minutes. It is meant to be a developer phone, so you will not find many consumer apps on it (i.e. I couldn't find a web browser). That is not to say that it won't ship with one. Also, the price estimate that the guy gave me for QT's Greenphone was about $700. For that phone (if you are not a developer) it would not be worth it.

    Anyway, as with the ALP timeframe, this guess ill be very optimistic.

    I would say that ALP gets to licensees by my original timeframe (Feb or March '07), and by that point at least one company (most likely GSPDA, and hopefully a stateside one, such as Palm, but not sure about Palm) will be planning for the device (i.e. getting ready to do everything that does not require the actually OS, but knowing what is compatible with the OS, essentially anything compatible with Linux) so that by the time that ALP hits, they just have to slap it on the test unit and beta it. this would provide for a fall '07 release. This is very optimistic, so i will be very surprised if things happen that fast. I expect early '08 for a device release, but it depends on how motivated device manufacturers are.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    Doesn't carrier testing and FCC approval usually go on about the same time?
    I think that's very likely. I don't really see how the 700w could be released 2 months or so after submission to the FCC if that wasn't the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    I would say that ALP gets to licensees by my original timeframe (Feb or March '07), and by that point at least one company (most likely GSPDA, and hopefully a stateside one, such as Palm, but not sure about Palm) will be planning for the device (i.e. getting ready to do everything that does not require the actually OS, but knowing what is compatible with the OS, essentially anything compatible with Linux) so that by the time that ALP hits, they just have to slap it on the test unit and beta it. this would provide for a fall '07 release. This is very optimistic, so i will be very surprised if things happen that fast. I expect early '08 for a device release, but it depends on how motivated device manufacturers are.
    Actually (as I hope is quite obvious) I've really just been playing devil's advocate to surur's pessimism in this thread and I expect you're right. One thing that does give me a little pause for thought though is a consideration of how long WM5 devices took to appear.

    Here are a couple of OS completion to device release numbers for WM5 devices:

    WM5 was released to manufacturing (RTM) on 10 May 2005. As far as I know the first WM5 phone was the i-mate JASJAR (HTC Universal). This was released in September 2005 (data from PDAdb.net, not sure of the exact date). So time from RTM to device release: ~4 months.

    I believe the first WM5 to be released in the US was the PPC-6700 (HTC Apache). This was released October 2005 (according to PDAdb). So RTM to release: ~5 months.

    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...Mobile5PR.mspx
    http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=312
    http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=409

    Now if Access hit the original target of end of 2006 and it took just four months to get a device out...
  20.    #20  
    So.....anyone see anything about Microsoft Windows Mobile Crossbow (possible commercial title Windows Mobile 5.0 Second Edition)????
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions