Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 46
  1. temna's Avatar
    Posts
    158 Posts
    Global Posts
    159 Global Posts
       #1  
    Is there a real physical difference between these two technologies? By physical, I mean could a programmable DSP of some sort switch between GSM and CDMA? And if it were possible, why couldn't Palm use it? And while they are at it, work with microsoft for a 320x320 driver for WM5.. Then they could go with one physical pice of hardware and just use software to program it for Palm/WM5 and GSM/CDMA.. Seems like a plausable way of doing things.. I thought I have seen reports of GSM/CDMA chips announced.. One hell of a way to save some cash in the long run Palm..
    Last edited by temna; 08/06/2006 at 10:32 PM.
    Unlocked Treo 650 (Nov 05) BTW: T-Zones sux!
  2. #2  
    You are right. I also heard someone can physically modify CDMA palm into GSM!! No kidding and actually already lots of GSM/CDMA duo mobiles are available in global market (just a little more expensive than normal one). There must be some easy and cheap way to do so.

    The trick is that we, the end consumers, have to bear the cost of fights among those network providers....
  3. #3  
    As far as the 320x320 thing, from what I've heard, MS was willing to make WM5 work with that resolution, but Palm would have to pay for it, and MS would offer it to other companies that licensed WM5, so they didn't want to do it.
  4. #4  
    I don't know much, but I'll give it a try. You are proposing a software implementation which controls signal modulation using a unified radio capable of operating at frequencies set for CDMA as well as frequencies used in GSM. Further, you are proposing that the carrier be able to alter constants in this software application which controls the modulation of the signal. My response to that proposal from a programming standpoint would be that it would require too many resources. The latency this software would generate as all data is checked against your algorithms would be much larger than it is now. This is just speculation, but I would imagine that currently, there is no algorithm to specify how the data is transmitted, it is just assumed that a specific method of modulation is implemented and transmitted. With your software implementation, the modem would need to be told in every instance how to modulate the data. From a business standpoint, one could argue that it is not cost effective. Palm's clients (the carriers) pay extra if they want exclusive rights to a device for x number of months (example: Treo 700). By unifying the radio, you take away this ability. In the end, there are more cons than there are pros. As for the unified GSM/CDMA chips, I am interested in seeing how well they actually perform. Just my .02, take it for what it's worth.


  5. ls3mach's Avatar
    Posts
    659 Posts
    Global Posts
    746 Global Posts
    #5  
    CDMA and GSM are two COMPLETELY different radio technologies.

    Wiki CDMA and GSM. GSM is signal dependant in that if you have low reception your call quality suffers, but it sounds more true to life. CDMA you either have service or you dont, calls CAN get garbled though, but call quality isn't as sensitive to signal strength. It also has noise cancellation built in.

    Pretty sure all of that is accurate.
  6. #6  
    I don't think this would go over well with the carriers, it would be too convenient for people to switch to another carrier. You go to verizon and buy a shiny new Treo 9000 that supports GSM and CDMA, and sign up for Verizon's data plan at $45 a month. You learn that Sprint's data plan is only $15, you cancel your Verizon service and switch to Sprint (probably not a great example because Sprint and Verizon don't activate foreign ESN's but you get the idea). This would make Verizon unhappy. It's a nice idea on the consumer side of things, but it probably wouldn't go over well with the business side.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by ls3mach
    CDMA and GSM are two COMPLETELY different radio technologies.

    Wiki CDMA and GSM. GSM is signal dependant in that if you have low reception your call quality suffers, but it sounds more true to life. CDMA you either have service or you dont, calls CAN get garbled though, but call quality isn't as sensitive to signal strength. It also has noise cancellation built in.

    Pretty sure all of that is accurate.
    But that all doesn't matter when implementing his software? All he cares about is a unified radio with a software switch. This software switch would use DSP algorithms to define how a signal is modulated. The protocol being implemented is irrelevant, you can transmit all the data you want if both ends know how to interpret the signals [on a fundamental level]. Whether that protocol is CDMA or TDMA, in essence, doesn't matter. The only thing stopping a device from connecting to either a GSM tower or a CDMA tower is the manner in which it modulates a signal, everything after that is just stupid little details. A unified radio with a programmable software switch is very much realistic IMO, but it wouldn't fly with the marketing department (those bent on the overall regression of technology ) because it would disable the company's ability to grant exclusivity to certain carriers, thereby decreasing sales. Like I said, I don't know much about this stuff, but to the best of my ability, that's the general idea. A little time on Wikipedia and Google could probably strengthen my ability to explain this... sorry.


  8. temna's Avatar
    Posts
    158 Posts
    Global Posts
    159 Global Posts
       #8  
    What I am looking at is a chip, that could be programmed (firmware) to handle GSM or CDMA connections.. Something that would have to be flashed by Palm.. i.e. changing the actual microcode of the chip itself.. Might be a little more expensive in the short term, but having only one piece of hardware, not three or four would make things cheaper in the long run.. Why Palm wouldn't want the 320x320 driver is beyond me.. Maybe they could work out a deal with Microsoft to make it Palm exclusive, atleast til the next version of Windows Mobile.. The comment about going from Verizon to Sprint is kinda silly though.. You could technically do that now as things stand.. All you need is a guy at Sprint who will do it.. Or vice versa.. A firmware upgrade and entering the ESN or whatever number and you're on Sprint.. What I am saying is, why is Palm going through the extra expense of all these different pieces of hardware, when the could technically go to one..
    Unlocked Treo 650 (Nov 05) BTW: T-Zones sux!
  9. #9  
    There's probably a few dozen threads on the board covering this so I would peruse them if ya want more detail. But since the radios work at different frequencies, I think more than a flash would be required. I suggested once ina tongue-in-cheek post.....

    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?p=887904

    ....that the radio be a "module" such that they could make one Palm 800 and it would come with either a GSM or CDMA "module" that popped in under the battery.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by temna
    Why Palm wouldn't want the 320x320 driver is beyond me.
    Cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by temina
    Maybe they could work out a deal with Microsoft to make it Palm exclusive, atleast til the next version of Windows Mobile.
    I don't think Palm would have too much to gain from keeping that resolution Palm exclusive. The main thing that turned them away from it was the cost of R&D for the 320x320 resolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by temina
    The comment about going from Verizon to Sprint is kinda silly though.. You could technically do that now as things stand.. All you need is a guy at Sprint who will do it.. Or vice versa.. A firmware upgrade and entering the ESN or whatever number and you're on Sprint.. What I am saying is, why is Palm going through the extra expense of all these different pieces of hardware, when the could technically go to one..
    Ok, but how many people know Sprint and/or Verizon employees that are willing to risk losing their jobs so they don't have to buy a proper phone from their carrier? And keep in mind that usually whenever you activate a Sprint phone on Verizon and vice versa, most of the extra features of the phone won't work (PowerVision, Picturemail, etc.), so your $700 Treo 9000 now becomes a basic calls-only type of phone. However, if Palm builds the Treo 9000 to where it can be activated on either Sprint or Verizon and retain full functionality, then it could become a problem for the carriers

    A better example would be having someone switch from Verizon/Sprint to T-Mobile/Cingular. In the end, it's better for the carriers if Palm builds different hardware versions instead of putting it all in one; allowing people the ability to switch carriers so easily would take away power from the carriers and probably make the Treo 9000 less worthwhile to them.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    There's probably a few dozen threads on the board covering this so I would peruse them if ya want more detail. But since the radios work at different frequencies, I think more than a flash would be required.

    Right, the original post was talking about a programmable hardware device which would modulate signals based on software, frequency, power, all of that is a part of the topic of modulation. When he said DSP, I instantly thought about the mathematics and dumped some software ideas, that was a miscommunication on my part...sorry . Your idea of a modular system, would be much more difficult to implement than the solution suggested here, as elegant as it would be.


  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by ls3mach
    CDMA and GSM are two COMPLETELY different radio technologies.

    Wiki CDMA and GSM. GSM is signal dependant in that if you have low reception your call quality suffers, but it sounds more true to life. CDMA you either have service or you dont, calls CAN get garbled though, but call quality isn't as sensitive to signal strength. It also has noise cancellation built in.

    Pretty sure all of that is accurate.
    That is why when I talk to GSM users, they sometimes sound like they are in Afghanistan, and CDMA users sound like they are on a landline, or they just drop a call.
    at&t iPhone3G
  13. temna's Avatar
    Posts
    158 Posts
    Global Posts
    159 Global Posts
       #13  
    Wait a sec.. The cost of R&D for a 320x320 driver would be more than the cost of having multiple hardware platforms and the R&D involved in having to design different hardware for WM5 and Palm devices? I don't see the R&D on the driver being that much. There are 240x240 and 480x480 drivers already. Seems to be fairly simple to make a 320x320 driver with the existing code. I may be over simpliying it, but they already have those codes, how hard could it be to modify it? Isn't there software out there that can already do this? I know about that hack that makes everything on the VGA models go to VGA resolution.. Can it really be that hard to do 320x320???
    Unlocked Treo 650 (Nov 05) BTW: T-Zones sux!
  14. #14  
    Well apparently, it was too much for Palm to implement 320x320 or 480x480, so WM Treos are stuck with 240x240.
  15. tirk's Avatar
    Posts
    810 Posts
    Global Posts
    918 Global Posts
    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trevante
    Well apparently, it was too much for Palm to implement 320x320 or 480x480, so WM Treos are stuck with 240x240.
    On a slightly different tack, are there any existing WM phones that support 480x480 (or anything else better than 320x320 for that matter)?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by tirk
    On a slightly different tack, are there any existing WM phones that support 480x480 (or anything else better than 320x320 for that matter)?
    that's a good question. Honestly, I've never seen one.
  17. TazUk's Avatar
    Posts
    689 Posts
    Global Posts
    719 Global Posts
    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by temna
    The cost of R&D for a 320x320 driver would be more than the cost of having multiple hardware platforms and the R&D involved in having to design different hardware for WM5 and Palm devices?
    Why would they need to design different hardware platforms for each OS
    Apart from the screen, which Palm don't design they just buy in, the 700W and 700P are the same hardware.
  18. ls3mach's Avatar
    Posts
    659 Posts
    Global Posts
    746 Global Posts
    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by tirk
    On a slightly different tack, are there any existing WM phones that support 480x480 (or anything else better than 320x320 for that matter)?
    VGA 640x480.

    I'm not sure why you Palm guys want square screens. I like my QVGA display. I LOVE landscape. I would have been thrilled with the Treo 700w if it had more memory, QVGA that was landscape oriented, and wifi. 240x240 doesn't look so hot and I don't care for the scaling.

    CDMA and GSM are two different radio technoligies. It is a software issue.
  19. tirk's Avatar
    Posts
    810 Posts
    Global Posts
    918 Global Posts
    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by ls3mach
    VGA 640x480.
    Yes, but are there any phones that actually support this yet?
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by tirk
    Yes, but are there any phones that actually support this yet?
    Next time search.

    http://msmobiles.com/news.php/5424.html


Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions