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  1. #21  
    I would not read too much into the disclosures - SEC rules require disclosure of thing sthat may have a material effect on operations; dropping Palm OS would and hence it's in the filing. That doesn't mean thay are planning to do it; just that their is a chance it could happen based on what they currently know; to not disclosue it would put them at risk of SEC enforcement actions.
  2. #22  
    Personally, I don't see much hope for POS.

    What is the incentive to license it from Access? It's open source Linux - they could just make their own version and be back in control of it. Having an interface with icons is not exactly patentable. Why leave their future innovation (and utlimately destiny) in the hands of another?

    The day they lost the bid for Palmsource, Palm should have started coding their own Linux-based mobile OS with backwards Palm OS compatibility.

    I don't see a future with Win mobile for Palm. There are many mfrs. like HP, Dell etc. that all compete with Palm in the smartphone and PDA market. These are competitors that buy Win mobile, Windows Xp/Vista and a ton of other software from MS. Who do you think is going to have more exclusives and more negotiating power? Hint: it's not Palm.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo-mike
    Personally, I don't see much hope for POS.

    What is the incentive to license it from Access? It's open source Linux - they could just make their own version and be back in control of it. Having an interface with icons is not exactly patentable. Why leave their future innovation (and utlimately destiny) in the hands of another?
    It's not exactly open source Linux - the kernal may very well be, and any modes they make to it would be, but everything else that would make it a PalmOS need not be open source.

    As for the ability to protect the interface, there is such a thing as a trade dress - wether or not the PalmOS interface could be protected is another issue. Apple seems to do a good job of protecting Aqua et al from exact copies.

    The day they lost the bid for Palmsource, Palm should have started coding their own Linux-based mobile OS with backwards Palm OS compatibility.
    The cost and time involved in developing and supporting their own version may make it cheaper to license it.

    I do agree taht Palm's future depends on having an OS that is different from WM or Symbian.

    I don't see a future with Win mobile for Palm. There are many mfrs. like HP, Dell etc. that all compete with Palm in the smartphone and PDA market. These are competitors that buy Win mobile, Windows Xp/Vista and a ton of other software from MS. Who do you think is going to have more exclusives and more negotiating power? Hint: it's not Palm.
    I'm not sure how much of a special deal MS may be able to make given the current anti-trust concerns MS has faced; although I agree MS would be more interested in Dell than Palm. The real challenge is MS OS tend to commoditize the hardware resulting in lower prices. While as a consumer I like that it makes it tough for manufactures since they must constantly drive down their prices to remain competitive. Niche manufacturers such as Palm will have a harder time doing that; while at the same time their products will be harder to differentiate from the Axims / Qs/ et al since they all will have the same basic OS. In the end they may find it hard to maintain margins as prices drop fater than they can cut costs.
  4. #24  
    Good points.

    Another point to make is that Microsoft is seldom satisfied to "co-exist" with other OSes in a company. So I imagine as Palm becomes more entrenched in the Win Mob OS, MS will continue to apply additional pressure to drop the other OSes. Tough situation for Palm to be in.
  5. #25  
    Justice Dep'd was suppossed to have stopped that but they still tryin....however even MS stalwart Dell now has both other chip and other OS options. The only way for Palm not to get screwed by any OS vendor is to have another option available. Plus, it's no secret that MS has aspirations to enter the phone hardware / music player market becoming a direct competitor to te apple iPod and Palm Treo.
  6. #26  
    I have to agree with treo-mike

    Who is running palm these days? W?
    At times I feel as if thier managment does not have an idea what thier customers want.

    Something comes to my mind, a couple of years back, an small business man bought a successfull resturant, after a few months, he noticed that the chef's were heavily paid so he sacked them and got others that charged less.
    Needless to say people stopped going because they liked the previous cooking.
    Apply my real story to Palm, POS & WM (or any other OS they choose)
    The minute they deviate from POS, they will die. I have a zillion devices that use WM, Palm is usually not going to be the best, technologically or value wise.
    If they stick with POS, thats a neich market grabbed. the end.
    If they move to ALP (or whatever), you gotta start from zero pal, with no customers and against windows.

    tough.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    If they stick with POS, thats a neich market grabbed. the end.
    If they move to ALP (or whatever), you gotta start from zero pal, with no customers and against windows.
    Did MS start from zero when they released Win95 ? Win95 was windows w/o (supposedly) a DOS base.....what about WinXP and what about Windows 64....where it matters (in the code) these OS's are not very similar . The only thing they share is the Windows brand name. Garnet is PalmSource, ALP will be Palm Source....almost all Palm programs will work under ALP just like most 16 bit programs worked under 32 bit Win95. The UI will be what it's always been, perhaps with a few enhancements....95% of the users (IOW, all but the geeks) won't even know the difference.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    ALP will be Palm Source....almost all Palm programs will work under ALP just like most 16 bit programs worked under 32 bit Win95. The UI will be what it's always been, perhaps with a few enhancements....95% of the users (IOW, all but the geeks) won't even know the difference.
    Now this is pure speculation. I suspect it will be radically different.

    Surur
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    I have to agree with treo-mike

    Who is running palm these days? W?
    At times I feel as if thier managment does not have an idea what thier customers want.

    Something comes to my mind, a couple of years back, an small business man bought a successfull resturant, after a few months, he noticed that the chef's were heavily paid so he sacked them and got others that charged less.
    Needless to say people stopped going because they liked the previous cooking.
    Apply my real story to Palm, POS & WM (or any other OS they choose)
    The minute they deviate from POS, they will die. I have a zillion devices that use WM, Palm is usually not going to be the best, technologically or value wise.
    If they stick with POS, thats a neich market grabbed. the end.
    If they move to ALP (or whatever), you gotta start from zero pal, with no customers and against windows.

    tough.
    In addition, my undestanding is that there will be an emulator in the linux based system that will run all previous versions on palm OS programs. So they won't need to start from scratch. All previous apps should work.

    Anyway, that was supposed to be the idea. At this point I am ready to give up on palm myself. I had windows ce devices when they first came out. I can switch to windows mobile. I already am moving in that direction by getting the ux 180 i got. it puts one mobile foot in the windows camp. I have become really disappointed with palm. they should have never split in 2 companies and they should have never let sony leave...they should have given them some incentive to stay. anyway, all the new cool devices seem to be coming from the other side. i am on my way out. this 700p is my last palm device i think. the biggest pain will be splash id. i came to depend on it. i got all my info there. i hope they come out with a windows mobile version that can convert my data. otherwise, i will bite it and do it manually. but that's it. i am giving up.
    too few real improvements over too long a period of time for too much money. that about sums it up for me. i have been with palm since the beginning. damn shame they lost me.
    Last edited by southbound747; 08/04/2006 at 01:12 AM.
    Sprint Treo 700p, Sony UX/TX, u720,
    Edirol R-09, Mitsu PK 20, Mimio
  10. #30  
    http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=12354

    In a recent interview, one of the co-founders and top executives of Access, Co. Ltd. talked about his company's goals for the Palm OS, which it acquired last year along with PalmSource.

    At this point, the Palm OS is a small player in a smartphone market dominated by Symbian, but Access wants to change that. Tomihisa Kamada, the company's chief technical officer, told the International Herald Tribune that, by the end of this decade, his company wants to have ten times the sales it has now.

    Access also intends to increase its share of the world smartphone market to 30 percent, up from the roughly 4 percent it has now.

    A Worldwide Focus

    Ever since the PalmSource was acquired by a company based in Japan, some people have been worried that future versions of the Palm OS will be primarily targeted at the Asian market.

    A comment by Kamada should help lay these to rest. "Acquiring PalmSource allows us to... cover all the important markets - the U.S., Europe, Japan and China."

    In fact, widening its market was one of Access' chief goals when it bought PalmSource. This company's NetFront dominates the Japanese web browser market, but is virtually unknown in other parts of the world.

    Kamada and the other top-level executives at Access believe they can change this by bundling NetFront with future versions of the Palm OS.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    PalmSource has every incentive to reach an agreement with Palm. Who else uses Palm OS? If they don't license it to Palm, their revenue stream drops to zero. Just like the Crackberry scare, it's all gamesmanship.
    Aren't the palm fees just a small part of the revenue that access has? (And aren't they especially small compared to the price access paid for palm source?) Also Japanese companies have a lot of cross ownership with other companies so it hard to really know who is who and how big the final financial entitiy is and how deep their pockets may be. In the early 1970s, Japanese companies "dumped" tvs at below cost in the us market and were willing to "lose" money for years in order to gain market share. it was an alien strategy to american companies. as a reult, today, no american companies make tvs and no one makes tvs in the us. Who knows why access really wanted palm os. maybe they wanted to kill it. MS is cerainly famous for doing that, buying up a competitor to squash them. a couple of years ago, palm was starting to move into the asian market in china. maybe access wanted to squash that. with palm out of they way, whatever they come up with with be the only real alternative to symbian and windows mobile. who knows. i am just speculating. i do know enough about asian culture though to know that things are not always what they first appear to non asians. just like the americans were clueless initially over the dumping of tvs, we may also not see their startegy at the moment with access. docomo is a huge company over there and has a big piece of access. china is a huge market. maybe docomo has their eyes on that. the chinese just leapfrogged ahead to cell phones. whole areas of china still don't have landlines but it seems like almost everyone there has a cellphone with a prepaid sim card. and in japan, the Internet is much more of a mobile thing than it is here. And docomo runs that show over there.
    Last edited by southbound747; 08/04/2006 at 01:11 AM.
    Sprint Treo 700p, Sony UX/TX, u720,
    Edirol R-09, Mitsu PK 20, Mimio
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by southbound747
    the biggest pain will be splash id. i came t depend on it. i got all my info there. i hope they come out with a windows mobile version that can convert my data. otherwise, i will bite it and do it manually. but that's it. i am giving up.
    .
    http://www.splashdata.com/splashid/index.htm

    Other editions available:

    Pocket PC (including Treo 700w)
    Windows Mobile Smartphone (e.g., Cingular 2125, T-Mobile SDA, Motorola Q)
    BlackBerry (71xx, 72xx, 75xx, 87xx)
    Symbian UIQ (Sony Ericsson P800, P900, P910)
    Series 60 (Nokia)
    Desktop Only Edition
    Enterprise and Government Edition
    http://www.handango.com/PlatformProd...24035&R=124035

    Surur
  13. #33  
    Here's one of the better, more clear writings on the subject

    http://www.1src.com/headlines/show/001642.html
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Here's one of the better, more clear writings on the subject

    http://www.1src.com/headlines/show/001642.html
    Theres nothing new or clear there, accept this (now old) falsehood.

    Palm still gets to use Palm OS 5/Garnet until December 2009 and with the information we have on hand, gets to use Garnet essentially free for the years 2007 2009.
    Surur
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Now this is pure speculation. I suspect it will be radically different.
    From the demos I have seen, seems same old thing to me....different pictures maybe but still the same icons in upper right....same time indicator in upper left....drop down menus have same stuff in same order.

    What it certainly won't be is "tap happy" and we won't have to use a Start Menu. Maybe we'll know more after ALP Day at LinuxWorld 2 weeks from now.
  16. #36  
    So for those who's holding treo 650GSM in their hand now, keep the baby!
    It will be 'classic'.....
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    From the demos I have seen, seems same old thing to me....different pictures maybe but still the same icons in upper right....same time indicator in upper left....drop down menus have same stuff in same order.

    What it certainly won't be is "tap happy" and we won't have to use a Start Menu. Maybe we'll know more after ALP Day at LinuxWorld 2 weeks from now.
    Actually they spoke explicitly of two versions, a one-handed and two-handed version, soft keys will definitely make their appearance, and I suspect the 5-way will work very differently.

    Surur
  18. #38  
    Thank you.

    So that problem is solved. I will just wait to get a year out of this 700p and that's it. Meanwhile I will watch the dust settle around palm and see if anything amazing happens to keep me (seems real doubtful at this point).
    Sprint Treo 700p, Sony UX/TX, u720,
    Edirol R-09, Mitsu PK 20, Mimio
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by piterh
    So for those who's holding treo 650GSM in their hand now, keep the baby!
    It will be 'classic'.....
    Why would it be any more "classic" than the the preceding 600 or upcoming Nitro (750 ?) ?
  20. #40  
    Well. I just thought that maybe they stop producing GSM Palm phone... :P
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