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  1.    #1  
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/13/no_fault_found/

    Interesting article regarding 63% of returned phones have nothing wrong with them. many of those are undoiubtedlt "trails" but with a 15 or 30 day free trial, there's no downside to "playing" withe very new device that comes out. How do you feel about how much this has gotta add to the cost of ya next device ?

    Should there be a charge for returning a "trial" phone equal to the vendor's cost for mailing, examining, testing, refurbishing and repackaging ?
  2. #2  
    I think the very thought of charging us money to test drive new devices is wicked.

    After all, people on this board are likely to be buying unsubsidized "latest and greatest" phones anyway. Can we have a 60 day "play without pay" policy, please?
  3. #3  
    one of the reasons I stopped buying in certain retail establishments is the "15% restocking fee". 99% of the time I won't return an item. the one big ticket item that I did have to return cost me dearly though. (it was crap). so .. I avoid those stores now.

    never a good idea to discourage a customer purchase.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tastypeppers
    I think the very thought of charging us money to test drive new devices is wicked.
    I used to agree,....but after seeing hundreds of posts here with people trying phones for the sake of trying them.....like geting a black tie when they already own a 700 and trying a new phone every 3 months.....I am concerned about the cost impacts on the ones who are not playing around.

    Perhaps it shoulkd be tied to the 2 year contract....try this one, tray that one, once you keep one....no more free tries for 2 years.
  5. Haggar's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    I used to agree,....but after seeing hundreds of posts here with people trying phones for the sake of trying them.....like geting a black tie when they already own a 700 and trying a new phone every 3 months.....I am concerned about the cost impacts on the ones who are not playing around.

    Perhaps it shoulkd be tied to the 2 year contract....try this one, tray that one, once you keep one....no more free tries for 2 years.
    On the upside, Jack, many of those same people who did the trials post positive reviews of their experience at places like TC. Those reviews are a pretty good way of convincing others that it's the right choice.

    Granted, if 10's of thousands of us are getting phones with the expressed purposes of using and returning them, that's not good. While I've "tested" several phones in my life - I've never done so knowing that I would definitely return the phone. I only "test" something that I think I may have a potential need (and, frankly, desire) for.
    Luminary? You've got to be kidding!
  6. #6  
    I'm not surprised after reading some of the newbie posts here. How many people return phones because they can't get it to sync,or because it doesn't have wi-fi, or it's unstable after hotsyncing their old palm settings into their new Treo.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by gapost
    I'm not surprised after reading some of the newbie posts here. How many people return phones because they can't get it to sync,or because it doesn't have wi-fi, or it's unstable after hotsyncing their old palm settings into their new Treo.
    I am always suprised by the number of Treo users I encounter who basically have a Treo and know nothing about it. They use it as a phone. They've never synced it to their computer. They have no third party apps. They use the keyboard for text messaging, and that's it. As I make - or attempt to make - small talk with other Treo users at trade shows or in bars, these type of users tend to be the rule and not the exception. I try to "wow" them with traffic cam feeds from a nearby intersection that is often bottlenecked (very handy), moving weather maps, or with a program like Flightview and they politely respond something to the effect of "That's neat" but they STILL aren't interested in using device to its potential.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by gapost
    I'm not surprised after reading some of the newbie posts here. How many people return phones because they can't get it to sync,or because it doesn't have wi-fi, or it's unstable after hotsyncing their old palm settings into their new Treo.
    That will undoubtedly happen but the Treo 650 owner who goes thru the 8125, 6700, Q, 700w, HTC whatver, black tie all in 4 months....all of which went back while he waits for Lennon.....that's what I am speaking at.
  9. #9  
    All of us are actually paying for that sort of thing. Or do you think the cost of returns isn't factored by the beancounters at the various companies?
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/13/no_fault_found/

    Interesting article regarding 63% of returned phones have nothing wrong with them. many of those are undoiubtedlt "trails" but with a 15 or 30 day free trial, there's no downside to "playing" withe very new device that comes out. How do you feel about how much this has gotta add to the cost of ya next device ?

    Should there be a charge for returning a "trial" phone equal to the vendor's cost for mailing, examining, testing, refurbishing and repackaging ?
    If a dealer can find something actually wrong with the device sold to the customer and they are just swaping the device for the same model then there shouldn't be a restocking fee. Though if the customer simply is trying to change hardware he/she purchased but just doesn't like the model then I believe they should be charged a nominal restocking fee. While working in a call center I experienced a wide variety of individuals some of which are under the impression it's their right not a privelege to test drive hardware with in the 30 day return policy. That's why most dealers and carriers have a strict return policy such as a limitation on data usage, airtime used as well being required to be returned with in the 30 day policy. Rogers for example has a similar policy of 30 mins airtime, 150 kb data and 30 days to return hardware. They also limit customers to being eligible for the hardware upgrade program to a minimum 12 months between upgrades. This came about due to some, not all customers who tended to abuse the system. While I've noticed carriers and dealers tend to make their policies as flexible as financially possible it's apparent one of the factors taken into their equation is the abuser, a person who either tries spinning cancellations in an attempt to get freebies, etc or plays with hardware like their toys not something that enhances their life.
    Last edited by Dark_Knight; 07/24/2006 at 12:16 AM.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    On the upside, Jack, many of those same people who did the trials post positive reviews of their experience at places like TC. Those reviews are a pretty good way of convincing others that it's the right choice.

    Granted, if 10's of thousands of us are getting phones with the expressed purposes of using and returning them, that's not good. While I've "tested" several phones in my life - I've never done so knowing that I would definitely return the phone. I only "test" something that I think I may have a potential need (and, frankly, desire) for.

    I agree. I am the same way. I do not think I have ever gotten a phone without the expressed desire of wanting to keep it. It is usually in the 30 day test window where I can truly see if the device is going to work for me.
  12.    #12  
    I don't know....if someone says they tried the 700w and it was great but they decided to stick with the 650....I can hardly call that a ringing endorsement.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by driven01
    one of the reasons I stopped buying in certain retail establishments is the "15% restocking fee". 99% of the time I won't return an item. the one big ticket item that I did have to return cost me dearly though. (it was crap). so .. I avoid those stores now.

    never a good idea to discourage a customer purchase.
    You have to look at it from the retailers perspective.

    We pay XX number of dollars for a device and then sell it at a mark up to make money off the sale. If someone buys it just to try it out and then returns it that item can no longer be sold as new and the retailer losses money.

    Hence the restocking fee.

    I am afraid you are just going to see more and more of this in the future.

    Target recently started adding a restocking fee on certain items (mainly electronics).

    If a "big box" store is feeling the pinch enough to have to charge a restocking fee imagine what it must be like for Mom and Pop businesses.

    Personally, I have seen a lot of Treos come back to our store not because there is anything wrong with the phone but more often something is wrong with the customer's computer and they refuse to take the smallest amount of time to try and diagnose what the problem is.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Keefer Lucas
    I am always surprised by the number of Treo users I encounter who basically have a Treo and know nothing about it. They use it as a phone. They've never synced it to their computer. They have no third party apps. They use the keyboard for text messaging, and that's it. As I make - or attempt to make - small talk with other Treo users at trade shows or in bars, these type of users tend to be the rule and not the exception. I try to "wow" them with traffic cam feeds from a nearby intersection that is often bottlenecked (very handy), moving weather maps, or with a program like Flightview and they politely respond something to the effect of "That's neat" but they STILL aren't interested in using device to its potential.
    That would be the equivalent of having a high perf sports car that someone uses to buy groceries once a month!

    Hell I can't even do all that stuff on my PC but I keep trying to LOL

    Send me some links pleeeezzzze!! LOL!!!


    I been trying to finger out how to get to the street web cams around here for months.

    SR66
    The best proof that their is intelligent life in outer space is: that they haven't made contact
  15. #15  
    Heh... Did anybody hear about the situation that took place at Best Buy? A computer was sold as new but had been returned by a customer for some lame reason. The second buyer of the computer found the first buyer's personal credit information on the computer and contacted the first buyer and they both went after Best Buy.

    So what is the Best Buy policy on wiping "new" computers before selling them ?? :-)

    My take is that as the market for electronics gadgets matures, there will be less opportunities to return merchandise. There will be less growth because everybody that is going to buy a gizmo will have bought their gizmo. Less growth will mean less aggressive marketing.

    I think keefer is right in that most of the capabilities of treos (for example) are unused. The luddltes are blissfully unaware of what they are holding in their hand. They got one because the cool dude on TV has one.
  16. #16  
    Somewhere between the phone geek's desire to play with new toys (on the one hand) and the retailer's need to make a profit (on the other) lies a happy medium.

    If the retailer says "It's yours and you can't bring it back" then sales will drop. If the retailer says "Open season" then there are higher sales but profit margins suffer because (presumably) of frivolous returns.

    It's a tough place to be for a retailer. And as much as I believe it is my God-given right to play with toys, I think I should recant my earlier "wicked" knee-jerk response.

    The phone companies could make it easier to test drive phones. The only way I could get my hands on an MDA was to buy the thing brand new. The store only had those fakey-fake units that don't work and don't feel like the real thing anyway.

    What, no loaners? T-Mo might have been better off creating a pool of demo units for people like me to walk around with for a few days. If they like it, then buy the new unit with returns only for defective merchandise.
  17. #17  
    I think part of the reason companies may not be as upset as perhaps some might think they are is that this gives them a source of replacement phones for those that break. At least this way they don't have to give out new replacements?
  18. #18  
    If anyone thinks the 700p would have cost $600 instead of $650 if they had this "return fee", I think they're mistaken.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  19.    #19  
    I'll bet each returned phone costs about the industry about $100.....counting sales person's wasted time on 1st sale.....testing, repackaging, replacing missing paperwork,cacelling all those damn rebate forms.....not to mention reduced selling price since it's now "used".
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    I'll bet each returned phone costs about the industry about $100.....counting sales person's wasted time on 1st sale.....testing, repackaging, replacing missing paperwork,cacelling all those damn rebate forms.....not to mention reduced selling price since it's now "used".
    I doubt it's that high. Sales person's are cheap, the testing is probably a few bucks ($20?), shouldn't take too much repackaging (otherwise they wouldn't accept the return), what missing paperwork, and the rebates I've seen typically require the UPC symbol (without which, it couldn't be returned). And since they need to have replacements on hand anyway, it didn't really "cost" them this difference since few phones are actually sold as used -- they're usually given away as warranty replacements.
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