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  1.    #1  
    I am about to buy a 700W from Verizon, and switch from my T-Mobile sidekick II. After searching and reading on this site, I find a lot of people are very unsatisfied with the Treo 700W. Why is that? The lack of memory? This can be fixed with a card. The screen res? Not the biggest deal. Possibly windows mobile all together as opposed to favoring the Palm operating system?

    I've read people buying it and returning it within a day, or a few days. Is the W a step I shouldn't make?

    Thanks in advance.

    -Kyle
  2. #2  
    There are many threads that ask and answer this question. Use the search button near the top of the page and you will get all your questions answered. Welcome and Good luck.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Motoracer
    I am about to buy a 700W from Verizon, and switch from my T-Mobile sidekick II. After searching and reading on this site, I find a lot of people are very unsatisfied with the Treo 700W. Why is that? The lack of memory? This can be fixed with a card. The screen res? Not the biggest deal. Possibly windows mobile all together as opposed to favoring the Palm operating system?

    I've read people buying it and returning it within a day, or a few days. Is the W a step I shouldn't make?

    Thanks in advance.

    -Kyle
    or take my case, I loved the treo 600, I loved the treo 650. bought the 700w liked it a lot at first, but still tried out the 700p. I've decided to keep the 700w because if you can be responsible closing apps and resetting from time to time, the thing is a rock. it has NEVER hard reset on me ever. the ootb apps work very well, and PIE is much better than Blazer regardless of what the die-hard palmers may say. the 700w is an excellent phone, so as long as you aren't launching nuclear warheads from it, and you come to this board to download magic button, you'll be very happy. this board is VERY palm centric and also VERY sprint centric, which might help explain the negativity to a WM5 treo from VZW.
  4. hrlaser's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    There are many threads that ask and answer this question. Use the search button near the top of the page and you will get all your questions answered. Welcome and Good luck.
    This kind of an answer isn't an answer. At least point him to some thread titles or links instead of turning him around and pushing him away saying "Go find them yourself."

    How'd you like it if you went into a library and went to the information desk and asked a librarian "I'm doing some research on [whatever] and could use some help in locating the books with information that would be useful to me" and the librarian said to you "We have a million books here. You figure it out" and turned her back on you?

    That's the analog equivalent of what you said to him.

    Harv
    Do NOT send email to harv at treocentral dot com - it will never reach me.. forwarding from that address to my real address was hijacked in early 2008, and I can't fix it.. send me a private message instead or email me directly at my RR address..
  5. hrlaser's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by eldiablo
    and PIE is much better than Blazer regardless of what the die-hard palmers may say.
    "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

    this board is VERY palm centric and also VERY sprint centric, which might help explain the negativity to a WM5 treo from VZW.
    Hmm.. I can't imagine why that might be Could it have anything to do with the fact that Palm has made nothing but PalmOS devices for ten years until the 700w was released in January, 2006 and six months later it's still the only non-PalmOS device they make, and Verizon is still the only carrier who has it, so the vast majority of the 55,000+ registered members here and millions of owners of various Palm devices are PalmOS users? Naah..

    Harv
    Do NOT send email to harv at treocentral dot com - it will never reach me.. forwarding from that address to my real address was hijacked in early 2008, and I can't fix it.. send me a private message instead or email me directly at my RR address..
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrlaser
    This kind of an answer isn't an answer. At least point him to some thread titles or links instead of turning him around and pushing him away saying "Go find them yourself."
    With all due respect, I spend a great deal of time searching for items on this site and get almost all the answers I need. If after an exhaustive search I cannot find what I need, I'll ask the question.

    I'm sure you've noticed that there are multiple threads with the same information repeated many times, I was merely pointing the obviously new member to use the resources on this site to find the information they were looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by hrlaser
    How'd you like it if you went into a library and went to the information desk and asked a librarian "I'm doing some research on [whatever] and could use some help in locating the books with information that would be useful to me" and the librarian said to you "We have a million books here. You figure it out" and turned her back on you?
    Harv
    Poor example. I go to the many resources the library provides first and ask the library personnel as a last resort. I volunteered at a public library, that's the way it's designed to work.

    Two questions Harv...
    1) Why take a shot at me, who was very polite in my response, when time and time again there are responses that say the same thing without being polite?
    2) Why is there a search button?
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  7. #7  
    Not to be picky, hrlaser, but you use a post to criticize someone (geatches) for posting a 'non-answer', then follow it up with posting a non-direct answer to the OP, but instead post the obvious reasons why this board is PalmOS centric (basically pushing MotoRacer elsewhere to find his answers).

    MotoRacer - my recommendation to you is to go to a Verizon store and see if you can get a 2 week trial with the 700W. I've played with one briefly and it is kind of slow but EVDO I'm sure would be quite nice. I've recently gone from a Treo to a Cingular 8125 (which runs WM5). It took a bit to adjust but I now pick up my old Treo and realize I like WM5 better hands down. BUT...the 8125 has more memory than the 700W. I had a few issues running programs from the card but they might have been just specific problems with the programs and nothing to do with the way WM5 handles running programs from the card. There's enough memory on my device to load everything I need. The lack of memory is going to kick in when you have multiple programs open and the 700W will start slowing down. I like having a lot of programs open so I can quickly switch between them.

    The best recommendation is definitely to get a 2 week trial and give it a lot of attention. If you're happy with it and it does the trick, go with it.
  8. #8  
    Moto, cool username. I've had them all, well, almost all of them. The Treo 700w is a fantastic device "out of the box." It can do it all but not gracefully. I personally love the windows operating system as it acts and functions like that of the one on your own desktop. It's limitation is in the memory (not storage memory) in that IF you start to load a multitude of 3rd party applications it may start to suffer and run unstable. In other words, if you have a series of applications open (maybe even just those that originally came with the device) and attempt to access a the internet/webpage or use the camera it might cause it to run slowly or freeze-up all together causing you to have to soft-reset the device. Don't listen to those that make an issue about the screen having a lesser resolution than that of the 650 or treo 700p, it is very bright, sharp and clear. And yes, you are right, there is a huge Palm bias on this board and for good reason as the other poster says. the palm os is simplistic but also prehistoric, most love it because of the multitude of 3rd party applications that are available for it. All else about the treo700 works just fine, i personally had no problems with activesync (i and a few others must be the only ones), the phone works incredibly well, pocket internet explorer offers a great internet browsing experience, and the camera/video capabilities are sufficient. perhaps what is most refreshing is walking into a verizon store after spending some time at a sprint store, you will immediately see why you pay a bit more for their services.

    i agree, go and give it a test-drive and see for yourself. hec, perhaps try them both! i also think you should check out the new Motorola Moto-Q offered by Verizon, it's a great device as well.
  9. hrlaser's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches

    Two questions Harv...
    1) Why take a shot at me, who was very polite in my response, when time and time again there are responses that say the same thing without being polite?
    2) Why is there a search button?
    I got this letter (by email) a couple days ago. I've gotten many others like it. Bold and underlining emphasis is mine.

    QUOTE:

    Dear Michael and Harv,

    Wonderful review.

    Us low techs appreciate your style points and wish that Palm hired more English majors and fewer geeks for the often obtuse instruction manuals. I can only assume that it must be tough to find those two skills in the same guys. I say that as one who possesses neither of the two qualities.

    As a failed follower of the maze of threads, I have a question: how can categories of inquiry be better grouped? As I want to know when the 700P will be supported by T-Mobile I proceed first to 700P, then search (t-mobile), then try to ask within that thread. I have observed NUMEROUS cases of this protocol being followed and the writer is then lambasted for not using the search function correctly, etc.. Using the first few words of the message as the heading of the thread often misleads the supplicant or at least it seems that way to me. I am too old to care if I am lambasted by strangers but it is a puzzling sequence that would certainly serve to cause the less assertive to simply not ask any questions

    Thanks again for your clarity.


    END OF QUOTE.

    I too worked in a University library and I also managed a bookstore. Both had tens of thousands of titles. The library probably a hundred thousand. Plus periodicals. If someone walked in looking for a piece of information in the library, or wanted to buy a certain book title in the store, I'd NEVER point in the general direction of a section of the library or store and say "It's over there somewhere, go find it yourself" which is basically what telling someone "use the search" is. I'd SHOW them how to use the card catalog, or the periodicals search references, or I'd walk them directly to the shelf, in the case of the library, or walk them directly to the book they wanted, pull it down off the shelf and put it in their hands, (if we carried it).. in the case of the bookstore. If we didn't carry it, or were out of stock, I'd special order it for them.

    Any search engine's results are only as good as the information you feed it. Search engines are both smart and stupid at the same time. They only know what you say, not necessarily what you mean.

    In the case of the quoted letter above, searching the Forums for "T-mobile 700p" results in 67 threads with hundreds, maybe over a thousand postings. Where does someone start? Most of the threads have titles that one wouldn't even think were related to the question. Search that string yourself and see if you don't agree. Pretend you were the letter writer and wanted to try and find that information here. See what you come up with.

    Okay, let's try the FAQ. Search it for "T-mobile 700p". Zero results.

    I wasn't lambasting you personally, just that kind of response, as noted by the letter writer, that more often than not, people, especially newbies, are told "That's been asked before, just search for it" instead of giving him a link or two which would take him directly to what he's trying to find. If the information doesn't yet exists, saying so rather than saying "search for it" is more helpful, in my opinion.

    If someone knows the answer, then fer chrissakes, just give it.

    I suggested to him to just start by calling T-mobile and asking them. But if they're anything like Sprint, if he called them ten times and asked ten different reps the same "When will you have the 700p?" question he'll get ten different answers from "We don't know" to "They haven't told us yet" to "We can't say, but it'll be soon" to "What's a 700p?"

    I could ask my contacts at Palm's PRPRPR $firm$ - $I$ $have$ $at$ $least$ $a$ $dozen$ $differenct$ $contacts$ $there$ - $but$ $there$ $are$ $things$ $they$ $won$'$t$ $tell$ $me$, $even$ $if$ $they$ $know$. $And$ $Joe$ $Consumer$ $has$ $no$ $access$ $to$ $them$ $to$ $begin$ $with$. $I$'$ll$ $even$ $go$ $so$ $far$ $as$ $to$ $contact$ $T$-$mobile$'$s$ $PR$ $department$ $next$ $week$ $and$ $see$ $if$ $I$ $can$ $get$ $him$ $an$ $answer$, $if$ $they$'$re$ $willing$ $to$ $cough$ $one$ $up$. $I$'$ll$ $go$ $the$ $extra$ $mile$ $for$ $a$ $stranger$ $to$ $help$ $them$ $out$, $if$ $I$ $sense$ $total$ $frustration$, $as$ $I$ $sense$ $with$ $this$ $guy$.


    Harv
    Do NOT send email to harv at treocentral dot com - it will never reach me.. forwarding from that address to my real address was hijacked in early 2008, and I can't fix it.. send me a private message instead or email me directly at my RR address..
  10. #10  
    Here's what kept me from getting the 700w:

    1. Windows Mobile. Nope, don't like it. Not a bit. One-handed navigation is much harder than with the Palm OS. More sub-menus to wade through. I bought an Audiovox SMT5600 just to play with a Windows Mobile smartphone and see if I liked it or at least could get used to it. Maybe if I were a business user and used Exchange Server for syncing email/calendar/contacts it would be different. edit: Actually, if I were a business user I'd probably just have a Blackberry.

    2. Screen resolution on the 700w was a backstep to 240 x 240 resolution. The Treo 650s are 320 x 320 as is the 700p. I beamed a photo to my friend's 700w and we compared that side-by-side to my 650. Noticable difference. He was bummed that his shiney new 700w was inferior to my older 650 in the screen department. The minute he can get the 700p from his carrier (Verizon) it's a done deal for him.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrlaser
    ...I'll go the extra mile for a stranger to help them out... Harv
    I also believe in helping people, but I also think it's a good idea if they try to help themselves first. For example, here's a new thread started around the same time I responded to this thread...
    Quote Originally Posted by DJH
    I am looking to buy a Treo 700. Just not sure if I should go for the P or W!!...
    There are many threads dealing with this subject and it is just as frustrating reading the same threads over and over asking for the same questions. In fact, if you searched "700P vs. 700W", you would find a thread with that exact title.

    I was trying to help the poster by pointing out the tools (developed by this site, not me) he could use to find what he was looking for, I even welcomed him to the forum. If you wish to make a point such as this in the future, I believe it would have more impact if you ripped someone rude and unhelpful.

    Respectfully,
    Todd
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  12. DJH
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    I also believe in helping people, but I also think it's a good idea if they try to help themselves first. For example, here's a new thread started around the same time I responded to this thread...

    There are many threads dealing with this subject and it is just as frustrating reading the same threads over and over asking for the same questions. In fact, if you searched "700P vs. 700W", you would find a thread with that exact title.

    I was trying to help the poster by pointing out the tools (developed by this site, not me) he could use to find what he was looking for, I even welcomed him to the forum. If you wish to make a point such as this in the future, I believe it would have more impact if you ripped someone rude and unhelpful.

    Respectfully,
    Todd
    Being the author of that last quote geatches mentioned, I see both points. Being new to the forum (and more important, to a mostly Palm forum) I tried several searches before I decided to submit a question that I was pretty sure was answered before. Most of the searches revealed posts that were pre-release of the 700p and some before the 700w.

    The posts I did find were ALL OVER THE PLACE and even though the original post may have targeted my question, replies go off on a new tangent (sorta like this one) and they didn't get to the heart of my true search. So,I decided to ask the question.

    That being said, I didn't take geatches comments as rude, but as from someone who has answered the same post a thousand times. Fine. However, I think we are all better served by people responding with an answer (if they know it or where to find it). Otherwise, if someone felt like they have answered the question before and don't want to again; don't answer it.

    I appreciate the replies that I received, including geatches because it helped get a little more creative with my search terms. Thanks to all
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrlaser
    "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan.



    Hmm.. I can't imagine why that might be Could it have anything to do with the fact that Palm has made nothing but PalmOS devices for ten years until the 700w was released in January, 2006 and six months later it's still the only non-PalmOS device they make, and Verizon is still the only carrier who has it, so the vast majority of the 55,000+ registered members here and millions of owners of various Palm devices are PalmOS users? Naah..

    Harv
    hey HARV,

    relax....I was simply stating to a relatively new person the bias' that exist on the board. take it easy. don't be such a psycho about all this....its just a phone.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    perhaps what is most refreshing is walking into a verizon store after spending some time at a sprint store, you will immediately see why you pay a bit more for their services.
    Care to expand on this?

    And by a bit, you mean 200 percent more, don't you?

    Perhaps it's a good motoracer posted a new thread. You'd notice that the original poster thinks the 'memory problem' can be solved by adding a card, which is way wrong. Given this gross misunderstanding of the memory issue of the 700w, plus knowing that he comes from a sidekick, I think the constant maintenance the device requires may not be well suited for them, and they should probably be made aware of this.
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  15. NRG
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrlaser
    This kind of an answer isn't an answer. At least point him to some thread titles or links instead of turning him around and pushing him away saying "Go find them yourself."

    How you like it if you went into a library and went to the information desk and asked a librarian "I'm doing some research on [whatever] and could use some help in locating the books with information that would be useful to me" and the librarian said to you "We have a million books here. You figure it out" and turned her back on you?

    That's the analog equivalent of what you said to him.

    Harv
    Gracias.

    And now to put in my 2 for the original poster. You are going to notice most of the threads here are dedicated to solving problems, not usually praise. So that would throw of the balance of good and bad posts.

    Now as far as I am concerned, WM5 is just too.....too...., awkward, not very intuitive to use. I like the way Palm has their launcher set up. With the palm I can press 2-3 buttons/taps and I am in the program I want. To me WM5 does not offer this. Also, I have got a mule cart full of programs, that I would rather have to repurchase. Hope this helps a bit
    Last edited by NRG; 06/11/2006 at 03:55 PM.
  16. #16  
    If you've never used a 650 or 700p, you'll probably like it.

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    Search for "Nice" in the app catalog to see all my apps.
  17. hrlaser's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by DJH
    That being said, I didn't take geatches comments as rude, but as from someone who has answered the same post a thousand times. Fine. However, I think we are all better served by people responding with an answer (if they know it or where to find it). Otherwise, if someone felt like they have answered the question before and don't want to again; don't answer it.
    Thank you for helping me make my point, which apparently fell on a lot of deaf ears or bruised egos. I didn't take his comments as rude either, just not very helpful. There's a difference between insulting someone and criticizing their approach. I didn't think the difference was THAT obtuse.

    Hey you people who have done 230982039840293841 postings here - imagine you came here for the first time and want an answer to a quick question.

    Put yourself in the other person's place. This is always a handy way to judge your own words and their reactions to them.

    And I stand by what I said. "That's been answered before. Search for it" is not an answer, in my opinion.

    However, it's a free country (at least it used to be.. I'm not so sure anymore..) .. so do what you like.

    I'm done with this.

    Harv
    Last edited by hrlaser; 06/11/2006 at 05:23 PM.
    Do NOT send email to harv at treocentral dot com - it will never reach me.. forwarding from that address to my real address was hijacked in early 2008, and I can't fix it.. send me a private message instead or email me directly at my RR address..
  18. NRG
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrlaser
    Hey you people who have done 230982039840293841 postings here - imagine you came here for the first time and want an answer to a quick question.

    Put yourself in the other person's place. This is always a handy way to judge your own words and their reactions to them.

    .....

    Harv
    I myself take this approach. I might not always include a link but I do try to direct someone in the right direction. Thanks for sharing your outlook on this as it lines up w/ thinking. BTW, how long have you been writing for TC?
  19. hrlaser's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I myself take this approach. I might not always include a link but I do try to direct someone in the right direction. Thanks for sharing your outlook on this as it lines up w/ thinking. BTW, how long have you been writing for TC?
    I've been Managing Editor since January. That means I don't just write, but every article you see posted on the front page (save Marcus' articles) goes through me for polishing and tweaking. I hired four of the five current writers after getting the job. Two are "legacy" writers. Before that, I was the PalmOS Editor for HandHeld Computing magazine for a year and a half. The magazine is now defunct. (No tears shed by me about that).. Before that, I wrote for that magazine (under a previous Editor-in-Chief) for about three years. Before that from about 1985 for about ten years I wrote for fifteen different Amiga magazines, about 700 articles, reviews, and opinion pieces, was a Contributing Editor to a bunch of them, authored half a dozen software and hardware manuals, Edited two or three books, and have worn out more keyboards on more computers than I can even remember.

    By the way, I like your avatar. What the Hell is it?


    Harv
    Do NOT send email to harv at treocentral dot com - it will never reach me.. forwarding from that address to my real address was hijacked in early 2008, and I can't fix it.. send me a private message instead or email me directly at my RR address..
  20.    #20  
    Sorry about the thread. Didn't want to cause so many problems. But, I still have unanswered questions because the thread HAS turned off the original topic.

    Why will a memory card not solve the memory issues? By "Memory", do you mean built in, or something you can add aftermarket? This relates to running mutilple programs at once, correct?

    I am coming from T-Mobile and a Sidekick which was great for the personal e-mail and ease of communication. I am about to get into a new business where I need something to have all of my organized information on the run, as well as something able to handle email VERY well. So, it brought me to the Treo. I want to link it to my computer, and i'd love to have the availability to view my excell sheets, and open word, and PDF documents on the go.

    Any further help would be great!

    Thanks guys.

    -Kyle
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