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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder God
    not to be a downer but how long will this device take to get to market. the 650 gsm came to market how long ago and how long do gsm customers have to wait as their cdma counterparts feast on two 700 handsets???
    Personally, I think its a result of the greater competition in the GSM smartphone space than in CDMA world. Think about it - other than the HTC Apache line and a random HP or two, what's really available for CDMA smartphones other than Palm? In the GSM world, it's much more competitive, and most of the competition is feature superior to the 700 line from Palm. Why bother (if you're Palm). How do you tell folks - "You'll really love driving a standard with no power steering or AC; just think how retro you'll feel."
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder God
    not to be a downer but how long will this device take to get to market. the 650 gsm came to market how long ago and how long do gsm customers have to wait as their cdma counterparts feast on two 700 handsets???
    I agree on the GSM front... Palm needs to get their act together. I've got an orange blob on my 600 screen and was planning to leap frog to the 700. I can't hold out forever (not seeing a 1/3 of my screen). I don't want CDMA or WM so it needs to happen fast or I'll bag the whole thing entirely. I've been on POS since 1998 and suffered through the 270... I've been loyal enough.

    I'm sure I'm not alone. As palm transitions they need GSM and POS imo. WM users are fickle and the competition is fierce... the 700w is too buggy and they'll lose a few users right away. If they don't roll something out for their core base users they'll lose market share on 2 fronts.. repeat treo users and WM first starts who quit early because the product isn't reliable. Is anyone thinking over there?
  3. #23  
    i want it before the end of summer.... come on palm!
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbcross
    1. 700w - CDMA
    2. 700p - CDMA
    3. 700w - GSM
    4. 700p - GSM

    =4
    Sad but best guess yet.
  5. #25  
    I agree with Chris. I've been using a Treo since the 180, back in the gray flip phone with grayscale screen days. Was one of the first adopters of the 180, and ordered my 270 and 600 the first days they were available for T-mobile. I was extremely disappointed with T-mobile not picking up the 650 after carrying the 180, 270, and 600, but the 650 wasn't a big enough improvement in my mind to change carriers or spring for the the unlocked version. AND I figured a new treo would be coming out a little sooner than 2 years later! My 600 finally quit about a month ago (continuous reset loop) and I have been patiently using a company issued blackberry in the mean time. Unfortunately, my company uses T-mobile too, so I'm hoping they come out with a GSM version of the 700p (or any palm OS GSM upgrade) soon, AND sell the unlocked GSM version as soon as it comes out, otherwise I'm stuck with this blackberry for like a year! Blackberry connect would make life soooo much easier as well, since IT departments seem to be brainwashed that BB is the best. I hope its not an impossible dream!
    Last edited by Rijal; 05/15/2006 at 03:55 PM.
  6. #26  
    only thing making the wait worth is is if the GSM phones come antennaless...
    .
    .
    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  7. #27  
    next ver will be the sprint cdma phone service with IDENT Push to Talk Feature
  8. #28  
    PalmOS is basically dead in Europe. I'd be surprised if they released anything beyond the 700w in Europe.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobeez
    only thing making the wait worth is is if the GSM phones come antennaless...
    Depends where you are I guess. If you're in the US and could go out and buy an EvDO Treo today (700w) or soon (700p) you might be right. If you're in a GSM-only part of th world, I'd argue that UMTS (better still HSDPA) is at least as compelling a feature as an internal antenna.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by driven01
    PalmOS is basically dead in Europe. I'd be surprised if they released anything beyond the 700w in Europe.
    If Palm make an updated GSM Palm OS Treo I'd expect it to be available in Europe. Quite a big 'if' of course.
  11. #31  
    new gsm treo for europe (and germany ; )

    http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=67
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Personally, I think its a result of the greater competition in the GSM smartphone space than in CDMA world. Think about it - other than the HTC Apache line and a random HP or two, what's really available for CDMA smartphones other than Palm? In the GSM world, it's much more competitive, and most of the competition is feature superior to the 700 line from Palm. Why bother (if you're Palm). How do you tell folks - "You'll really love driving a standard with no power steering or AC; just think how retro you'll feel."
    Samsung.

    Using your car example logic, then why is a Porsche significantly more expensive than a Corvette? Why is an iPod more expensive than a Zen?
  13. #33  
    Porsche is more expensive than a Vette because its a better car (that is totally true no matter how much of a Vette fan anyone is; add to that the parts bin mentality of GM, then you have something cheaper).

    In terms of GSM development, Palm would be better off building a real nex gen Treo for the EU market (then let us in the US play some) that is fashionable, functional, and near the best in class. Palm has done it before with the T3 and TC in terms of stepping things up. There is nothing that says that they cannot do it again, and shoot, it really is about time for one of their shakeups.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine of MMM
    Porsche is more expensive than a Vette because its a better car (that is totally true no matter how much of a Vette fan anyone is; add to that the parts bin mentality of GM, then you have something cheaper).

    In terms of GSM development, Palm would be better off building a real nex gen Treo for the EU market (then let us in the US play some) that is fashionable, functional, and near the best in class. Palm has done it before with the T3 and TC in terms of stepping things up. There is nothing that says that they cannot do it again, and shoot, it really is about time for one of their shakeups.

    I can't agree more, Antoine, about the cars and about Palm!

    I am very hopeful that this is indeed what Palm will do, up the antie, make the late 2006 be a sleek, thinner gsm treo sans antenna that betters those WM models currently on the market.

    well, a guy can dream,right?
    Nanotechnology Nerd
    i300-->i330-->i500-->6700(1 wk!)-->Sprintt650-->gsm650-->HTC Universal (1 mo.)-->gsm650-->Cing8525(3wks!)-->gsm650
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine of MMM
    Porsche is more expensive than a Vette because its a better car (that is totally true no matter how much of a Vette fan anyone is; add to that the parts bin mentality of GM, then you have something cheaper).

    In terms of GSM development, Palm would be better off building a real nex gen Treo for the EU market (then let us in the US play some) that is fashionable, functional, and near the best in class. Palm has done it before with the T3 and TC in terms of stepping things up. There is nothing that says that they cannot do it again, and shoot, it really is about time for one of their shakeups.
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboxer
    I can't agree more, Antoine, about the cars and about Palm!

    I am very hopeful that this is indeed what Palm will do, up the antie, make the late 2006 be a sleek, thinner gsm treo sans antenna that betters those WM models currently on the market.

    well, a guy can dream,right?
    You have both hit the nail on the head. It should be much more than a slimmed down Treo 700w, and if it is, they will smack a home run in the Cingular/T-Mobile market, while giving Verizon/Sprint serious heartburn. Just think of a Samsung i320 size Treo, with Palm's better keyboard, throw in a 320x320 screen, skip the antennae and add WiFi to true 3g phone - oh man, would that make the CDMA world furious.

    Come on Ed, "uuu caaahhnn do eeeet!"
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine of MMM
    Porsche is more expensive than a Vette because its a better car (that is totally true no matter how much of a Vette fan anyone is; add to that the parts bin mentality of GM, then you have something cheaper).

    In terms of GSM development, Palm would be better off building a real nex gen Treo for the EU market (then let us in the US play some) that is fashionable, functional, and near the best in class. Palm has done it before with the T3 and TC in terms of stepping things up. There is nothing that says that they cannot do it again, and shoot, it really is about time for one of their shakeups.
    Actually, Palm hasn't really done it before with smartphones. The great leaps in the Treo from the 180 through the 600 came from Handspring. Since Palm reacquired HS, we have seen only the more marginal evolution to the 650 and 700. Even if some of the HS movers and shakers are still involved in Treo development, other considerations -- corporate culture, financial resources, market power, complacency in the face of adequate sales, whatever -- seem to have kept Palm from innovating in the same way as HS. Consider how long it's been now since the 600 first hit the market. Can anyone look at where the Treo after all this time and say objectively that Palm has continued to push the envelope in smartphone design, or have confidence that they even can?
  17.    #37  
    The London Underground is saturated by Treo advertising, right now. It's emblazoned on the escalators at some stations, and absolutely unmissable. "It's time for Treo", they say. The pictures used in the bright orange ads are the 650, and it's not operator-branded.

    Palm clearly still has a big continued interest in Europe, as well they should. Investing big money in advertising the current gen of product a year or so after it has been launched can only make us optimistic that there is a product pipeline.

    Palm is, in my view, quite a lazy company. The laziest course of action to continue in Europe is to launch the 700p and 700w in GSM/UMTS flavours. This does require hardware development - Palm's never done UMTS before.

    In my view, they should press ahead with the Palm OS version forget about the 700w.

    Why?

    Well, there are already plenty of Pocket PC phones available which make the 700w look distinctly underspecced. I thinking in particular of the HP 6915 and the new Pocket Loox.

    One rumour - and let's face it, a rumour is all it is, is that a new Treo will feature a slimmer design, no antenna and Windows Mobile. Um, HP are already there. The 6915 has the keyboard and 240x240 screen, and throws in Wi-Fi and GPS too! We'd collectively faint if Palm brought out that device.

    So, the 700w in present form would be an also-ran in the European market. It just wouldn't have any innovation. The 700p, on the other hand, would be the premier PalmOS device - and most analysts agree that PalmOS still trumps WM for one-handed ease of use.

    I hate to say it, but if I wanted a WM device, I wouldn't wait for Palm, I'd go with HP. But I don't, really. I want a PalmOS device. I prefer them. I run a small company, and we group-buy our phones every year. Last year, we all got 650s. If Palm has improved stability through better memory management, introduced UMTS and bettered the dire voice performance of the 650, we'll upgrade. Without ALL those, no deal - there just wouldn't be enough reason to shift from the 650. By the way, of the 4 handsets we bought, three had to be replaced during the first 6 months! Hopefully quality control is on the up!!

    I have but one further sensible suggestion for Palm, if they want to crack the business market in Europe, and the UK in particular; voice dialling over Bluetooth. It is illegal in the UK to touch a phone with your car's engine on. ILLEGAL. Every time I initiate a call using the handset and use my Bluetooth headset for the conversation, I am breaking the law. Not good for a prosumer phone, and inadequate compared to the competition.

    I remember the vendor of Voice Dialling software for the 600/650 explaining on their web page that the reason there would be limited Bluetooth functionality was due to API bugs on Palm's part. Their hands were tied. Palm: if you haven't already done so, fix your next phone, do a deal with a vendor of voice dialling software, and bundle it for Europe. Be competitive.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by pmckean
    In my view, they should press ahead with the Palm OS version forget about the 700w.

    Why?

    Well, there are already plenty of Pocket PC phones available which make the 700w look distinctly underspecced. I thinking in particular of the HP 6915 and the new Pocket Loox

    One rumour - and let's face it, a rumour is all it is, is that a new Treo will feature a slimmer design, no antenna and Windows Mobile. Um, HP are already there. The 6915 has the keyboard and 240x240 screen, and throws in Wi-Fi and GPS too! We'd collectively faint if Palm brought out that device.

    So, the 700w in present form would be an also-ran in the European market. It just wouldn't have any innovation. The 700p, on the other hand, would be the premier PalmOS device - and most analysts agree that PalmOS still trumps WM for one-handed ease of use.
    The hw6915 lacks 3G whereas the 700w has EvDO. Obviously a CDMA/EvDO device is useless in the UK but if Palm released a 700w with UMTS/HSDPA that would be a significant advantage over the HP device. For me, it would heavily outweigh the Wifi and GPS on the 6915 (the GPS chip isn't the best anyway). The Loox T830 is nicely specced - but have you seen it? It's a big, ugly brute of a phone.


    Quote Originally Posted by pmckean
    So, the 700w in present form would be an also-ran in the European market. It just wouldn't have any innovation. The 700p, on the other hand, would be the premier PalmOS device - and most analysts agree that PalmOS still trumps WM for one-handed ease of use.
    I'd like to see both WM5 and Palm OS Treos in Europe. Thing is, can they get OS5 to do UMTS/HSDPA?

    Quote Originally Posted by pmckean
    It is illegal in the UK to touch a phone with your car's engine on. ILLEGAL. Every time I initiate a call using the handset and use my Bluetooth headset for the conversation, I am breaking the law. Not good for a prosumer phone, and inadequate compared to the competition.
    I believe you are mistaken. It's illegal in the UK to use a handheld mobile phone in a vehicle when the engine is on. It's illegal to hold it but it's not illegal to touch it if it is mounted in a cradle (provided doing so doesn't cause you to have improper control of your vehicle). From the Dept for Transport website:

    Quote Originally Posted by DfT
    Q2. Is hands-free phone equipment allowed?

    Provided that a phone can be operated without holding it, then hands-free equipment is not prohibited by the new regulation.

    And pushing buttons on a phone while it is in a cradle or on the steering wheel or handlebars of a motorbike for example is not covered by the new offence, provided you don't hold the phone.

    However, hands-free phones are also distracting and you still risk prosecution for failing to have proper control of a vehicle under Regulation 104 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 if you use a hands-free phone when driving. If there is an incident, the use of any phone or similar device might justify charges of careless or dangerous driving.
    http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ty_025216.hcsp
  19.    #39  
    Marcol,

    Although neither the 6915 or T830 are perfect devices, they exceed in most ways the connectivity offered by offered by newer Treos. Should the vanillla 700w be launched in Europe, those will be it's WM5 competition, along with the plethora of HTC form-factors offered by the likes of O2.

    Those of us looking for an excellent all-round communicator and not bothered by UMTS connectivity (most of us, I think - I have a 3G Symbian device on Vodafone, and I would categorise network availability as "occasional") would be likely to go for an established brand like HP, which with Wi-Fi and GPS looks like an excellent choice. Those who need the 3G network could well choose the T830. It may look like a brick, but the industrial design is rather appealing - and certainly more accomplished than the rather retro and garish Treo. And I *love* Treos.

    I don't believe that the 700w looks like a strong device in Europe. On the other hand, I believe that the 700p could find a niche.

    I'm not sure what your point is with regards to phone laws. I'm aware of the full extent of the law, but it doesn't change the fact that convenient and obvious functionality has been omitted from PalmOS Treos due to buggy APIs. I don't want a cradle attached to my car. I want to leave my phone in my suit pocket and initiate calls via the headset. I'm not alone. Business phones offer this functionality, generally, and have done so for many generations. The 700p does not offer this.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by pmckean
    Those of us looking for an excellent all-round communicator and not bothered by UMTS connectivity (most of us, I think - I have a 3G Symbian device on Vodafone, and I would categorise network availability as "occasional") would be likely to go for an established brand like HP, which with Wi-Fi and GPS looks like an excellent choice.
    Perhaps I just have a short attention span but I get bored waiting for data (email and web pages) over GPRS. Sure there's Wifi at work and at home but in either of those I'll generally use a desktop or laptop, it's when I'm away from these places that I need fast data access from the Treo. Perhaps you have more hotspots in your neck of the woods?

    Quote Originally Posted by pmckean
    Those who need the 3G network could well choose the T830. It may look like a brick, but the industrial design is rather appealing - and certainly more accomplished than the rather retro and garish Treo.
    My comment that itís Ďa big, ugly brute of a phoneí was really just a reflection of my personal feelings about the design rather than an analysis of its potential sales. I do think that some will have the same response as me, but for others it might be just what theyíre looking for. I guess time will tell, but I'm betting that the next model will be significantly redesigned.

    Quote Originally Posted by pmckean
    I don't believe that the 700w looks like a strong device in Europe. On the other hand, I believe that the 700p could find a niche.
    Iím not a market analyst, but I suspect both could find niches. WM Treo for those who need tight integration with Exchange (or are just Microsoft-minded) and POS Treo for those who want the simplicity, rapidity and one-hand friendliness of Palm (or just hate Microsoft).

    Quote Originally Posted by pmckean
    I'm not sure what your point is with regards to phone laws. I'm aware of the full extent of the law, but it doesn't change the fact that convenient and obvious functionality has been omitted from PalmOS Treos due to buggy APIs. I don't want a cradle attached to my car. I want to leave my phone in my suit pocket and initiate calls via the headset. I'm not alone. Business phones offer this functionality, generally, and have done so for many generations. The 700p does not offer this.
    My only 'point' was to correct the inaccuracy in your previous post i.e. that the statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by pmckean
    It is illegal in the UK to touch a phone with your car's engine on. ILLEGAL.
    was incorrect. I thought this might be useful to you or to others reading this. I didnít comment on your statements about the desirability of voice dialing over bluetooth, which actually I agree with.
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