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  1. Postal's Avatar
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    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    You're double posting....you bastich!
    it won't happen again
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    I'd encourage you to go to Palm's career web site and read some of the Linux job descriptions. You'll see there that some of the qualifications include being a part of the Linux community. I think they are quite a bit ahead of the curve already.

    My guess is that they've been working on Linux for quite some time...I would be they may have something for the next product cycle in 18 months...

    Setting up an in-house team to do all the development is so 90's. That is not way ahead of the curve. Setting up an open source project led by a smaller in-house team and allowing the thousands of developers who would gladly give them time to contribute would be the modern way to do it. And the job would be done in about a third the time.

    Seriously. Check out www.opensuse.org and www.betterdesktop.org. Novell and SUSE certainly aren't perfect, but this is the way to develop an operating system.
    Last edited by Homie; 05/09/2006 at 10:11 AM.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by mymellowman
    Honestly, I think what will happenwith Palm will really be decided on Linux whenit debuts. The other key factor will be whether or not our current POS will hold up enough to make the next jump.

    As for the MacOS/POS comparison, I've beena Mac user for the last 11 or 12 years now and live by my Mac, but as someone once pointed out in the Apple/Palm comparision is that Apple has Steve Jobs and Palm does not.
    ...but they do have Jeff Hawkins. Just because he hasn't been in the limelight, don't discount him and his "secret third business".
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    ...but they do have Jeff Hawkins. Just because he hasn't been in the limelight, don't discount him and his "secret third business".
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  5. #65  
    Last I checked, Palm was still the market leader by a huge margin (like 3:1) over the next competitor in the convergence device market. Let's look at a comparisons.

    Dell has about the same market share (30% +/-) as palm
    Dell is now selling AMD chips through it's Alienware subsidiary

    So since Palm has a new OS it never had before and has the same market share as Dell, therefore, by this logic, can we also conclude:

    Dell is dead ?
    Dell will no longer sell Intel chips ?
  6. #66  
    Palm isnt 3:1 over RIM. In fact its more RIM 3:1 vs Palm. Palm sold 581 000 "converged devices" while RIM sold 1.45 million.

    Surur
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    ...but they do have Jeff Hawkins. Just because he hasn't been in the limelight, don't discount him and his "secret third business".

    Is it a Treo with a brain of it's own?
    Trust me, I'm a producer.
  8. Haggar's Avatar
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       #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Palm isnt 3:1 over RIM. In fact its more RIM 3:1 vs Palm. Palm sold 581 000 "converged devices" while RIM sold 1.45 million.

    Surur
    I'm also interested to know what the starts are on WM5 vs POS -- I don't care about individual manufacturers as much as I care about which OS is gaining ground.

    If you have 15 different vendors offering WM5 and only 1 vendor offering POS...and WM5 sellings 3 million units vs 1 million POS obviously looking at which hardware manufacturer has the bigger pentcentage of the market doesn't really matter.

    Now...if Palm has 25% of the WM5 marketplace against all the other vendors -- that's something of note. But just because Palm has a unit unit volume of POS devices than Dell does of WM5 devices you can't conclude that Palm is doing "better".
  9. #69  
    Its like Apple being one of the biggest computer vendors, but only 4% of the desktop OS market.

    Surur
  10. Haggar's Avatar
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       #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Its like Apple being one of the biggest computer vendors, but only 4% of the desktop OS market.
    'zactly - what he said.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Palm sold 581 000 "converged devices" while RIM sold 1.45 million.
    No RIM sold 1.45 million PDAs and Smartphones combined.

    http://www.palmblvd.com/articles/200...ympomatic.html

    "Gartner said Research In Motion (RIM) was the top-selling PDA vendor - with 929,883 thousand BlackBerrys shipped - last quarter; not counting the 517,000-strong BlackBerry 7100 series, which Gartner considers a smartphone."
    A PDA is not a convergence device. The problem with the other listing as far as market share is that the different reporting outfits classify everything differently. Some list US only, some list worldwide, some include smartphones, some don't. If it don't have phone, e-mail, web and the ability to add 3rd party programs it's not a convergence device. There's a lotta BB's sold, but only a small portion of them include all those features.

    How many of the BB's in the above quote have:

    1. Full PDA capability w/QWERTY KB and ability to add unlimited 3rd party applications.
    2. Wireless phone access
    3. Wireless data access

    Models w/o all these features must therefore be eliminated from the 1.45 million total.
    Last edited by JackNaylorPE; 05/10/2006 at 11:37 AM.
  12. Postal's Avatar
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    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Sales results from last quarter...

    From the last RIM conference call:

    "Total devices shipped in the quarter of approximately 1.12 million"
    "RIM added approximately 625,000 BlackBerry subscriber accounts during the quarter"
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/8759


    From the last Palm conference call:

    "Treo Smartphones to end-user customers reached a record 559,000 units this quarter"
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/8119
  13. #73  
    I can't find an answer to the question at hand in those links.

    How many "convergence" devcies, defined as those containing full PDA capability w/QWERTY KB and ability to add unlimited 3rd party applications, wireless phone access and wireless data access shipped. Only a small portion of BB "devices" meet the stated criteria.
  14. #74  
    Jack, I'm not a BB expert, but I believe that the only BB's that *don't* meet those requirements are the old pager-sized BB's that l don't think they even make/sell anymore. So I think the 1.45m number is the better one to use.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    I'm also interested to know what the starts are on WM5 vs POS -- I don't care about individual manufacturers as much as I care about which OS is gaining ground.
    I just saw that yesterday and didn't save the link.

    To the best of my recollection, it was Symbian 51%....Linux 23%,...Windows (all) 17% and Palm had just about all of the rest.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Jack, I'm not a BB expert, but I believe that the only BB's that *don't* meet those requirements are the old pager-sized BB's that l don't think they even make/sell anymore. So I think the 1.45m number is the better one to use.
    Then I gotta wonder why does Gartner place the 7100 in the smartphone category ? I didn't think the 7100 had QWERTY just phone number pad with 3 letters per number.

    Maybe I gotta go study the BB web site. I am only familiar with the BB's as e-mail devices or e-mail devices + phones. Also didn't think I could for example add TomTom (or an equivalent) to a BB even tho IIRC there's one BB with GPS function built in.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Jack, I'm not a BB expert, but I believe that the only BB's that *don't* meet those requirements are the old pager-sized BB's that l don't think they even make/sell anymore. So I think the 1.45m number is the better one to use.
    I agree. Gartner have their bizarre way of accounting, but converged to me means capable of phone calls and PDA functionality, and adding highly functional software. Palm also wants all of that 1.45 million market, not just the 500 000 "smartphone" part.

    Surur
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by mymellowman
    Honestly, I think what will happenwith Palm will really be decided on Linux whenit debuts. The other key factor will be whether or not our current POS will hold up enough to make the next jump.

    As for the MacOS/POS comparison, I've beena Mac user for the last 11 or 12 years now and live by my Mac, but as someone once pointed out in the Apple/Palm comparision is that Apple has Steve Jobs and Palm does not.
    As a Mac convert who has upgraded the duel process intel Mac, I have not as yet ran windows programs on my Mac. Although I have that capability, it comes down to the question of why would I run windows when I love the Mac? (The answer is obviously that there are some windows applications that I may need to interface with the PC windows world) I have the same issues with the POS system. I like that system and have gotten used to it. I may have to change in the future if Palm doesn't "keep up", but until then I will continue to enjoy the POS.
    Legalbeagle
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I agree. Gartner have their bizarre way of accounting, but converged to me means capable of phone calls and PDA functionality, and adding highly functional software. Palm also wants all of that 1.45 million market, not just the 500 000 "smartphone" part.
    Everybody does....that's why HP isn't going to make PDA's anymore. My guess is within 18 months, PDA's w/o phones will be a miniscule market.

    The BB e-mail device ...history
    The PDA Device....history

    I don't think anyone is gonna want a device where ya can't do web, get e-mail, add your own programs, do MM, make calls, ....they'll be 2 subgroups IMO....the kids will settle for phone keypads, business users full QWERTY. Anything less to me doesn't quite....er....converge .
  20. Haggar's Avatar
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       #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by mesplin@earthli
    As a Mac convert who has upgraded the duel process intel Mac, I have not as yet ran windows programs on my Mac. Although I have that capability, it comes down to the question of why would I run windows when I love the Mac?
    As a former Apple employee (well, contract worker) many years ago...and someone who does love the Mac but owns mostly PCs (okay, I did get one Mac Mini) I can tell you that love for the operating system just isn't enough -- particularly when you're talking business. Unfortunately, I think the bulk of the buying of these smartphones is going to be for business...so the question is...which platform is best for your company's IT requirements and your bottom line. I'm afraid the POS is steadily losing in the arena when compared with WM5.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    I don't think anyone is gonna want a device where ya can't do web, get e-mail, add your own programs, do MM, make calls, ....they'll be 2 subgroups IMO....the kids will settle for phone keypads, business users full QWERTY. Anything less to me doesn't quite....er....converge .
    I'd agree with you with regard to business and pro-sumer markets...but the "average joe" probably won't be as inclined to want the ability to add programs as long as they can "plug in" a solution. For example - if you have a GPS system that just snaps into place and works...who cares if you can add software as long as it's done for you...

    Ultimately, there is no way a stand alone PDA is going to be around...the only question is...what OS will dominate. I think the handwriting is on the wall that Windows Mobile will be that OS...but that doesn't mean there isn't room for Palm.
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