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  1.    #1  
    Before I start, look here

    http://www.gsmarena.com/palm-phones-27.php

    Happy? These are all of Palm's PalmOS phones in existance. Only the 650 is the new one, the others are almost obsolete.

    Now look here

    http://www.gsmarena.com/i_mate-phones-35.php

    and

    http://www.gsmarena.com/qtek-phones-38.php

    and

    http://www.gsmarena.com/eten-phones-40.php

    and

    http://www.gsmarena.com/hp-phones-41.php

    and I can go on and on.
    All of us Palm purists are hanging on the thread of T650 or T600.
    Can you see how many iMate, iteK, HP & god knows what Windows Mobile OS phones are there?

    Microsoft are licensing thier OS to alot of manufacturers, unlike Palm who's third party manufacturer lists are getting smaller!
    Also, pick one company.. iMate for example.
    Goddamn how many sets they have!
    Why isn't Palm doing the same?
    Release an updated set with no camera or card reader and make it budget!
    Get another one in fancy colours and no antennas or keyboards and make it a girly phone.
    Make an everyday user phone.
    Make an update to the 650 with a 3.0 MP camera. larger screen and WiFi.

    For godness sake, when did the 650 get out?
    How can they hype the market and raise the intrest in POS if this isn't done?

    Dude's, there are some sexy sets out there, and I want 3G! I just saw a WM5 set with TV reception. I love Palm but seriously, they must get off thier butts! If they can't release new OS systems at least they can spin off the ones they have! What do u guys think?
  2. #2  
    All those offerings seem to be an attempt to try and wrestle some market share from Palm ... something no one has been able to do ... well not yet....IIRC, Palm's share of the "convergence" markey has increased for 11 straight quarters. With 4 new devices this year, I think Palm sees that they have to do more to stay competitive but I don't see them going nuts.....Budget, Medium and HEGO (High end geek oriented) would seem to me the 3 price points for a long term strategy.

    Palm has announced a lower priced Treo (lowrider) will be released later this year....and a new higher priced Treo (what is no longer called Hollywood) will be released later this year. I don't want to invest the time and money in switching phones too often. Anything shorter than an 18 - 24 month product cycle I think will lose customers over the long term.

    How often does a carpenter but a new hammer ? There are gadget freaks who will buy a new treo every 3 months if it was offered justifying it by saying they save 30 minutes a day using it....of course they also waste 60 minutes a day playing with it, and 60 minutes here on TC but we won't talk about that

    Primarily, the Treo is a business tool and the cost of outfitting staff with a new device has huge labor cost impacts as they familiarize themselves and set up the new device. Doing that more often than 18-24 months is not going to have a positive ROI.

    personally, I'd love a device where you could buy an unbranded phone and pop in a "module" that would include the ROM and radio allowing you to easily transfer between carriers....I don't see the carriers liking that one too much tho.
  3. NRG
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    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    Before I start, look here

    http://www.gsmarena.com/palm-phones-27.php

    Happy? These are all of Palm's PalmOS phones in existance. Only the 650 is the new one, the others are almost obsolete.
    Your facts are wrong I think. That list forgets the

    Samsung i500 and i300
    Kyocera had 2 models as well
    Plus, a few other I am sure I am forgetting

    Also the three phones on the right of those phones listed in your link are Handsprings not Palms. I could go on but I think you get the jist.
  4. #4  
    what the hell are B***s?
  5. NRG
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by chckhbrt
    what the hell are B***s?
    It is the two shoes way of BUTTS!!
  6. #6  
    OK, what the heck is "the two shoes way"?
  7. NRG
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by jaharr
    OK, what the heck is "the two shoes way"?
    Goodie two shoes.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    It is the two shoes way of BUTTS!!
    Otay, Tanks for clearing that up. I wasn't aware that **** was in the censored word category like A$$...

    I was also thinking that B***s was the new outcome based edjamakation spelling for A$$es...

    Boy, that's a load off my mind..

    Chuck
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Your facts are wrong I think. That list forgets the

    Samsung i500 and i300
    Kyocera had 2 models as well
    Plus, a few other I am sure I am forgetting

    Also the three phones on the right of those phones listed in your link are Handsprings not Palms. I could go on but I think you get the jist.
    I was pointing to Palm and Palmone's phones.
    Not POS powered phones.
    Still,even if, theyr not many anyway
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Anything shorter than an 18 - 24 month product cycle I think will lose customers over the long term.
    Trust me, this is EXACTLY what palm needs.

    Look at Nokia & Soney Ericsson.
    There used to be like 4 sets a year late ninties from Nokia. Now no one keeps track.
    They dressed the same phone in different covers, one looks masculine, one faminine.
    They had geek phones, newbie phones, high fashion phones, incredibally expensive phones, rugged ones, one with a mirror, a music focused one, cheapo ones, games orianted ones.
    Sony Ericsson? Same thing. They got Walkman branded phones now for every palate.
    Palm?
    T650 was released.. erm... how long ago? is it two years yet?
    I am probably one of 3 people in the Kingdom who own a palm, because, no one cares about them!
    I love my Palm, but they really gotta work. I want a palm phone with a 3MP camera, MP3 rings out of the box, no antenna, bigger screen and 3G support.

    Should I buy a Tx and a Sony phone? If the SE W910 gets cheap enough, I may go that way. Palm is losing people with being tardy.
  11. #11  
    I am not gonna spend $600 every six months to outfit my employees with some marginally improved feature list. I'll pay $200 +/- a year for a phone, no more. $300 phone gotta last us 18 months....$400 phone 2 years. $600 phone ? Ya ain't get me to pay for upgrades more often than every 3 years.

    Good thing ya can get repeated "new customer" discounts via SIM swapping. I paid $325 for my 650 15 months ago. My formula says that gotta last me 19 months. I'll buy my wife the next Treo in September / November as a "new customer" at $325 or whatever again, then steal it from her, and swap SIMS so I can keep my number.
  12.    #12  
    Palm is not making phones to one individual yknow
    one product every two years is stupid
    If one want to buy a set every 18 months, then don't buy the marginally improved one! Others might!
    Chances are after your set waiting period passes (18 months, 2 years, 6 months, whatever) you'll find the device you want

    Its jus the other people whos needs are more urgent than 18 months or would like a cute phone instead or whatever, all thoes are palm less
    Trust me, they way its going, palm may survive, but it woun't conquer anything
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    Palm is not making phones to one individual yknow
    Exactly my point. The individual buyer is not Palm's major market, Joe Coprorate with purchasing power is.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    one product every two years is stupid ...If one want to buy a set every 18 months, then don't buy the marginally improved one! Others might!
    Yes others might but again Joe Corporate isn't....Vendors don't think as much about the guy buying 1, they tend to pay more attention to the guy buying 15,000 ... 1,500 or even 150. There's also the economics of the situation regarding carriers. Carriers go thru massive testing programs costing into the hundreds of thousands of dollars......they don't want to do this more than necessary.

    There's also the reality of the rebate situation. What carriers offer rebates to someone upgrading their phone after say 9 months ? ....nada. Yeah the guy who must have the latest gadget on the block so he can walk around with a "look at me" smile on his face will buy to get that attention fix from his peers and those with oodles of disposable income may not think twice about it. But what person can justify a business decision to purchase a new phone every 6 months ? Show me an ROI calculation that has this making sense.

    Why did so many corporations never "upgrade" to Windows XP ? Cause they got burned in the Win95 is better / faster fiasco and realized upgrading without a positive ROI doesn't make sense.

    Forgetting the phone, look at the labor lost in removing the old phone software, installing the new on the desktop, installing all the apps, getting it set up just right. How much do you spend setting up a new Treo....for me it is at least a day, closer to 2, and that doesn't include all the research that goes into what to buy, what's new for the device, which apps do I want....
    By the time all is said in done a phone switch probably costs at least 20 hours of lost time....when you billing people out at $100 - 200 an hour, that's a lotta moola down the drain.

    So it comes down to what you said......yes "they might", but by far the majority won't. There has to be a substantial change in the feature list and you are not going to be able to design implement, in house test, carrier test that many new features in a 6 month time frame.
  14. #14  
    To add to this, Palm has a niche market. If they start going for the gimmic phones, they're going to be competing head-on with the other corportations. Right now Nokia isn't even really in Palm's sight. I do think they need to do more major improvements to each new phone it releases, however, there are reasons (which I won't go into - too much explaining) why Palm is probably doing this. Gimmic phones are short-lived. Within a year or so, people are onto the next gimmic phone (usually not from the same company). There's a big difference between features and gimmics. 1.3MP camera, feature; hot pink phone (think Razr), gimmic. If Palm started flooding the market with several phones, only a smaller percentage would keep upgrading. Palm makes a lot more money by holding back. This is why I think most of the features on the new treos aren't the latest and greatest technology. Palm is putting features that they know work marketwise. There are talks of 5MP cameras on phones coming soon, but how well they will sell, nobody knows. It sounds cool, but would you really go out of your way to buy a phone with 5MP? The image can't be much better than a 1.3MP. The crappy plastic lens is going to make a crappy picture no matter how many MP you have (I know, you could argue this, but the point is, crappy equipment = crappy result). Business customers do NOT want to be the lab rats for the newest features on phones. They also don't want to buy into these so-called fashion forward phones. How many companies buy hot pink Moto Razrs for their employees?

    And now:
    My 700P will be better than your 700p!

    Signed,
    The n00b!

    P.s. Bow before me!

    Don't just see the n00b, be the n00b! Wait, no...
  15. #15  
    Al these arguments about the cost to business and whats suitable for them are fine, but Palm sells mostly to individuals. They would like to get into business (which is what the Treo 700w is all about) but consumers were the ones keeping Palm alive. Palm isn't doing much to excite them.

    BTW, to consumers, color choice IS a major feature, especially hot pink.

    Surur
  16. #16  
    You can see a pink Treo on my belt
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceUponAn00b
    To add to this, Palm has a niche market. If they start going for the gimmic phones, they're going to be competing head-on with the other corportations. Right now Nokia isn't even really in Palm's sight. I do think they need to do more major improvements to each new phone it releases, however, there are reasons (which I won't go into - too much explaining) why Palm is probably doing this. Gimmic phones are short-lived. Within a year or so, people are onto the next gimmic phone (usually not from the same company). There's a big difference between features and gimmics. 1.3MP camera, feature; hot pink phone (think Razr), gimmic. If Palm started flooding the market with several phones, only a smaller percentage would keep upgrading. Palm makes a lot more money by holding back. This is why I think most of the features on the new treos aren't the latest and greatest technology. Palm is putting features that they know work marketwise. There are talks of 5MP cameras on phones coming soon, but how well they will sell, nobody knows. It sounds cool, but would you really go out of your way to buy a phone with 5MP? The image can't be much better than a 1.3MP. The crappy plastic lens is going to make a crappy picture no matter how many MP you have (I know, you could argue this, but the point is, crappy equipment = crappy result). Business customers do NOT want to be the lab rats for the newest features on phones. They also don't want to buy into these so-called fashion forward phones. How many companies buy hot pink Moto Razrs for their employees?
    I know one company that would buy pink Moto Razrs for their employees...
    at&t iPhone3G
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Al these arguments about the cost to business and whats suitable for them are fine, but Palm sells mostly to individuals. They would like to get into business (which is what the Treo 700w is all about) but consumers were the ones keeping Palm alive. Palm isn't doing much to excite them.

    BTW, to consumers, color choice IS a major feature, especially hot pink.

    Surur
    A b***load of moms at my kids' school have acquired Treo-thingees in the last year. (Yeah, my wife was one, courtesy me, and she's still a bit puzzled by how Chatter can make her email appear on the home PC and her Treo, and when I delete an email it goes grey with a line through it what does that mean make it go away oh so that is what expunge means thanks).

    I like to talk to people who have Treos and mostly they seem individuals, as Surur says. This is completely unscientific research on my part, of course. But it is completely and utterly true for all times, places, and peoples. These are universal truths, folks. Discovered by me. But I digress.

    The mom crowd seems to really like the little beastie, even down to the replacement stylus that doubles as a pen. Show them a new Treo feature -- how to put a picture with a contact -- and it's "Way cool!" time.

    This is consumer product marketing and consumers want New Bright Shiny Things all the time. As soon as they have one New Bright Shiny Thing they tire of it and want another. If you don't believe that, take a random walk around Treocentral and oh, search for "700p" and see what you find. Look at the OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG thread when A2DP came to Treoville. http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...&highlight=omg

    Growth for Palm does not lie in selling new Treos to True Believers. We'll buy whatever Palm sells us anyway.

    The future lies in selling new Treos to heathens and converting them to the Church of the One True Phone. And to do that you need lots of bait. All kinds of phones. Left handed Treos. Right handed Treos. Colors. "Oooh, sparkly!" Treos. Treos with extra flux capacitors for the performance enthusiast.

    And pink. Lemme tell you about pink. I pointed one of the moms to www.boxwave.com. You know the first thing she bought? A pink skin for her Treo.
  19. #19  
    I'll say iit again - since Palm bought out Handspring it has been the kiss of death for us consumers. Handspring was the true innovators. Look at all the changes from the Visor phone to the Treo 180, 300 & 600. They were ahead of the competition. They released devices yearly (on time) & with very substantial upgrades. They were doing things that other companies were trying to catch up to. NOW compare that to what Palm is doing. They have had very negligible updates (takes 1.5 years), AND charge more each time around. The Treo no longer sets the standard - it follows it closely behind. Why you may aks? They make more money that way, they are greedy & do not care whatsoever about bringing truely innovative devices to the masses. They are interested in taking money from the masses & giving the least. This new price point (if legitimate) is ridiculous! No onboard wifi, only 32mb, 1.3 MP camera, the list goes on. For almost $700!!! hHow do they justify this price?!! I'l tell you - there is no direct competition or alternative for us. A Blackberry or Pocket PC phone?? They have us trapped & know it. I think it is a shame Handspring sold out. I can only imagine what kind of a Treo we would have in our hands right now if they didn't... **** on Palm!
  20. #20  
    Ah, the power of pink. I was buying my daughter a Razr for her birthday. She demanded a pink one, despite the pink one being the old one, with VGA camera and no expansion. I wanted to get her the new one with the 1.3 megapixel camera and itunes integration. Unfortunately it was red, not pink, so it would not do. There was even one with a 2 megapixel camera, but horror of horrors it was dark grey. At least it meant I got the phone for free instead of having to pay 150.

    So yes, hot pink counts for A LOT in a certain market.

    Surur
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