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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft
    The Vodaphone piece the insider at Palm said,"Palm only considers models to be distinct if they have distinct features like the OS, the radio, the specs, the form factor, etc."

    Correct me if I am wrong, but does that not mean that the WM GMS, POS GMS, WM CDMA, and POS CDMA are four different phones according to palm?
    They are different phones, but Palm would be pretty stupid trying to sell the 700w design worldwide. If they dont update the form factor they will lose out worldwide.

    Look at the shape of the GSM competitors. Notice any antennas?

    http://surur.sytes.net/roguesgallery2.jpg

    Surur
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol
    I've seen a number of David's posts over at PIC and he seems like an honest sort of chap to me. Apart from anything else, he's a software developer and has a reputation to maintain. How good's his source? I've no idea, but he seems convinced and I'm more tempted to believe this than not.
    Then did you point out his claim that LowRider is not for 2006 release?

    We have 2 reports this week. One from a mainstream source saying Hollywood is a myth and another saying LowRider is not till sometime in 2007...hmmm...
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by gharrod
    Then did you point out his claim that LowRider is not for 2006 release?

    We have 2 reports this week. One from a mainstream source saying Hollywood is a myth and another saying LowRider is not till sometime in 2007...hmmm...
    I would not be surprised if Lowrider is delayed. Its supposed to be just a T650 case revision. The T650 is still selling well, so why replace it with a new device until absolutely necessary?

    Surur
  4. #104  
    Hi folks. David Beers from Software Everywhere, here.

    A few comments to the ones that have gone before:
    • Sagio wasn't the originator of the idea that upcoming Palm Treos were code-named "Hollywood" and "Low Rider." That came from a Morgan Stanley analyst who watches HTC in Asia. It's quite possible that from Palm's point of view there were never any devices with those code names and that they were only used internally by HTC. Only problem with that theory is that I thought Palm was switching from HTC to Inventec for building these new devices.
    • Sagio's report has got a bad rap for things that were never claimed in their report. They never claimed "Hollywood" would be thinner, just that the antenna stub would be removed. They never even stated it would be 3G. That stuff was embellishment by people at Engadget and elsewhere. As it happens, it seems likely that it will be both thinner and 3G, but if it doesn't go down that way it isn't proof that Sagio was lying or misinformed.
    • Sagio also never said Hollywood was aimed exclusively for the European market. To the contrary the original report said it would "probably be launched by Cingular in the US."


    A lot of the disappointment here, as well as the claims that "Hollywood" is a hoax, stem from people forgetting what the original report said it would be and spinning off on each other's flights of fancy over what it *might* be.

    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft
    The Vodaphone piece the insider at Palm said,"Palm only considers models to be distinct if they have distinct features like the OS, the radio, the specs, the form factor, etc."

    Correct me if I am wrong, but does that not mean that the WM GSM, POS GSM, WM CDMA, and POS CDMA are four different phones according to palm?
    Technically, yes, but the impression I came away with is that Palm is going to try variations and permutations in features with each new Treo and that they didn't consider a Treo to be new if, for example, they started selling the 700w on Sprint. Not that they won't sell the same phone to multiple carriers, of course, just that they are not counting those as new Treos as that term has been used in their official announcements.

    David Beers
    Pikesoft Mobile Computing
    Software Everywhere blog
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by gharrod
    Then did you point out his claim that LowRider is not for 2006 release?

    We have 2 reports this week. One from a mainstream source saying Hollywood is a myth and another saying LowRider is not till sometime in 2007...hmmm...
    Caution: that was an interpretation on my part based on the vague description that was repeated to me of a 2007 Treo that sounded a lot like Low Rider. That should be regarded with a lot more skepticism than the factual statements I presented.

    David
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by cervezas
    Hi folks. David Beers from Software Everywhere, here.

    A few comments to the ones that have gone before:
    [list][*]Sagio's report has got a bad rap for things that were never claimed in their report. They never claimed "Hollywood" would be thinner, just that the antenna stub would be removed. They never even stated it would be 3G. That stuff was embellishment by people at Engadget and elsewhere. As it happens, it seems likely that it will be both thinner and 3G, but if it doesn't go down that way it isn't proof that Sagio was lying or misinformed.

    David Beers
    Pikesoft Mobile Computing
    Software Everywhere blog
    Actually:
    “Hollywood” will be a fancier 3G/GSM smartphone which will represent PALM first attempt at the European GSM market. We know the phone will have no external antenna and will probably he launched by Cingular in the US.
    Thats straight from the Sagio report.

    Surur
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    Palm has been behind since the 600 came out with paltry RAM, poor screen resolution and no WiFi when it was readily available for them to use. The 650 addressed some of the issues, but still failed with WiFi and RAM, not to mention a multitude of performance issues until the update. The 700w was introduced with issues of screen res and WiFi and it looks as though the 700p's specs are no more than a very expensive update.

    While Palm found the right form factor early on, it has failed to take advantage of their product and looks as though they are failing their customers again by not including basic items that nearly every other manufacturer is putting on their products. I am saddened because I've owned several Palms (300, 600, 650) and now have to abandon them because of their failure to compete.
    See, I thought we were talking about the design, as in look, shape, etc, of the Treo. Many of those issues you stated I would agree with. It seems like the Palm OS is holding them back on a lot of issues. It's time for that OS to give way to something better IMO. I think if an OS with the simplistic feel, look, and useability of the Palm OS with the power (such as multitasking) of operating systems like WM5, then I think we would have a winner of an operating system. Personally I'm not so concerned that Palm didn't include built in wifi. There is the optional card if I really wanted it (talking about the 700w). However, there are third-party devices that allow for wifi on the Palm OS, so for Palm to say that it's not possible for wifi to work is a bold-faced lie and is outright laziness on their part. I don't need wifi, but I certainly would like it to be an option in the future, if I do decide I want it. Palm needs some new management. They have so much potential. With a little more effort they could be 10x the company that they are and I'm sure their sales woulc greatly increase. If they had been able to surpass the PPC-6700, people most likely would have chosen the Treo. A big complain of the 6700 is it's size and shape. The 700w could have easily killed it, but it did not because of Palm's lack of effort. I don't think we're going to see any huge improvements on Palm devices until the Linux version comes out, if even then.

    And now:
    My 700P will be better than your 700p!

    Signed,
    The n00b!

    P.s. Bow before me!

    Don't just see the n00b, be the n00b! Wait, no...
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    “Hollywood” will be a fancier 3G/GSM smartphone which will represent PALM first attempt at the European GSM market. We know the phone will have no external antenna and will probably he launched by Cingular in the US.
    Thats straight from the Sagio report.
    Surur
    So it was. Thanks for the correction on that point!

    David
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceUponAn00b
    See, I thought we were talking about the design, as in look, shape, etc, of the Treo. Many of those issues you stated I would agree with. It seems like the Palm OS is holding them back on a lot of issues. It's time for that OS to give way to something better IMO. I think if an OS with the simplistic feel, look, and useability of the Palm OS with the power (such as multitasking) of operating systems like WM5, then I think we would have a winner of an operating system. Personally I'm not so concerned that Palm didn't include built in wifi. There is the optional card if I really wanted it (talking about the 700w). However, there are third-party devices that allow for wifi on the Palm OS, so for Palm to say that it's not possible for wifi to work is a bold-faced lie and is outright laziness on their part. I don't need wifi, but I certainly would like it to be an option in the future, if I do decide I want it. Palm needs some new management. They have so much potential. With a little more effort they could be 10x the company that they are and I'm sure their sales woulc greatly increase. If they had been able to surpass the PPC-6700, people most likely would have chosen the Treo. A big complain of the 6700 is it's size and shape. The 700w could have easily killed it, but it did not because of Palm's lack of effort. I don't think we're going to see any huge improvements on Palm devices until the Linux version comes out, if even then.
    We are on the same page, well said.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by cervezas
    So it was. Thanks for the correction on that point!

    David
    David, You lose a great deal of credibility if you can't accurately report on a public document that probably took sursur a few short minutes to find. If you plan to post corrections to items stated here, you may want to spend a few minutes beforehand checking the facts.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    David, You lose a great deal of credibility if you can't accurately report on a public document that probably took sursur a few short minutes to find. If you plan to post corrections to items stated here, you may want to spend a few minutes beforehand checking the facts.
    My bad, certainly. I was actually the one who first dug up that document and posted the links back in November, so I ought to have known better. Problem was I thought I knew what it said by memory--always a bad idea at my age!

    Here's the post that started it all back in November: http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=35

    I'll try to be more careful but you should know that I'm posting this info for peoples' interest, not to boost some kind of internet credibility rating for myself. You can believe anything you please about me or my sources and it won't be skin off my nose! :-)

    Have a good weekend, all!
    David
  12. #112  
    David, I have seen your name connected to a lot of questionable stories listed on other sites. You claim to be an expert on Palm and the marketplace and I would be fearful of using you for any sort of work. You need to be a lot more responsible in your quotes.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol
    Adama, Thanks again for taking the time to post here. If you could sort the lines of communication at Brighthand in time to let us know when these devices will be released, that would be great
    For the time being, the only thing I would expect to see soon is the 700p. I'll see what I can do about keeping people apprised within the limits of what I'm allowed to say.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamaDBrown
    For the time being, the only thing I would expect to see soon is the 700p. I'll see what I can do about keeping people apprised within the limits of what I'm allowed to say.
    Is this Perry?
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by gharrod
    David, I have seen your name connected to a lot of questionable stories listed on other sites. You claim to be an expert on Palm and the marketplace and I would be fearful of using you for any sort of work. You need to be a lot more responsible in your quotes.
    Oh for Pete's sake. I don't claim to be any kind of expert about Palm or the marketplace! My expertise is as a software developer and it's clearly stated on my blog and website. You should take anything I write about Palm as a company or the market with the same shovel full of salt you'd take with statements by any other stranger on the Internet. I write for my own pleasure. I trust my sources and rely on them to help me conduct my own business affairs, but that doesn't mean I expect anyone else to do the same.

    I take at least as much care about the things I post as anyone else, but I'm not infallible. I spend a lot more mental effort honing my skills as a programmer than as a market analyst, so if you're "fearful" of me I think it's safe to say you can ignore what I say and get on with your life without ill effect! :-)

    David
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    Is this Perry?
    No. Adama is that dude what flew that Battlestar thingie to Earth.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    No. Adama is that dude what flew that Battlestar thingie to Earth.
    Does he work at Starbuck?
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamaDBrown
    For the time being, the only thing I would expect to see soon is the 700p. I'll see what I can do about keeping people apprised within the limits of what I'm allowed to say.
    Oh for cyin' out loud.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamaDBrown
    There may or may not be a slim Treo on the table, but it wasn't designed specifically for Europe. If there is a slim Treo, which I'm not sure that there is, it will probably be available worldwide, the way any current GSM Treo is.
    Well wait a minute.
    Yesterday you responded to my post (you know... the one where I proved everything that you were saying to be wrong) in an effort to prove me wrong by saying Palm would never design a phone to work in Europe and also sell it in the states. Now you are saying that, if they did design a phone like this (which you don't THINK they will??) it would be available worlwide.

    Which is it?





    That question is rhetorical of course.



    .
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamaDBrown
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    On a side note, I can't believe you have an issue with "UMTS devices designed strictly for Europe not working here, and vice versa". That doesn't make sense. Why do you think companies make and sell tri-band phones... world wide?
    I "have an issue with it"? It's the truth. US UMTS is 1900 MHz, European UMTS is 2100 MHz. To work on both networks, you have to expressly build the device that way.
    You're an *****. You're quoting me quoting you and then saying that I'm incorrect - which... actually leads to you being incorrect. And if you go back and reread the original intent, you'll find that you took it out of context anyway.

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