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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    In short, Palm PRPRPR $lied$ $to$ $Brighthand$.
    Thanks for the vote of confidence, Surur. :P

    In any event, we never said it was Palm PRPRPR.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    You do realize that they have a contract to deliver a UMTS device to a carrier that serves the EMEA market (the biggest they have ever had in the history of Palm)?!? Are you suggesting this contract is not real?
    Well, I haven't seen this contract, nor do I know what it says, so all I know about it is what you've just said. I don't know what relevance it has, or what it promises to deliver, or when, so I'd be hard pressed to see how it connects to current events. The Treos have always been available internationally, and upgrading to UMTS is the only logical step. As I recall, the 650 is currently available on most of the large international networks like Vodafone and Orange, as was the 600 before it.

    I heard Andy Grove specifically describe the device they are talking about to fulfil this. He said it would be a "new industrial design" to fulfil the wishes from "certain parts of the world that prefer to not have an antenna".
    Good for them. But "no antenna" and UMTS don't neccessarily translate to "Hollywood, stylish slimphone designed for Europe." They'd have been silly not to include UMTS in their new GSM devices, and a slight casing redesign to get on the same page as most other manufacturers is hardly a shock. Yes, Europe was probably a consideration in the design process, but so was the US, where antennas aren't exactly demanded by the populace.

    Think about it this way. Look at the specs on the new GSM Treo. Now, think about whether it would make any sense to have both that, and the GSM version of the Treo 700w. It wouldn't: they're nearly identical in terms of specs and design. Logically, one would conclude that this is the GSM equivalent to the 700w. Also, note that European UMTS networks only run on 2100 MHz, while US UMTS networks run on 850/1900 (currently 1900). UMTS devices designed strictly for Europe won't work here, and vice versa. This device was tested on the US Cingular UMTS net, therefore it can't be a Europe-only device.
  3. #43  
    Where are the specs for the new GSM Treo???
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4. #44  
    Hi AdamaDBrown, Thanks for posting here. I think a lot of confusion could be cleared up if you could comment on this sentence from your Brighthand article:

    "Moreover, the original report of a slim Treo designed for Europe is false, and the company has no such model on the table."

    Is this verbatim from your sources or your interpretation of what was said? More to the point, can you comment on whether your sources meant:

    1) There is no slim Treo on the table;

    2) There's a slim Treo on the table but it wasn't designed for specifically for Europe;

    3) There's a slim Treo on the table and it was specifically designed not to be sold in Europe?
  5. #45  
    Sorry Adama, I don't mean to imply you are gullible. I guess this specific device could be a hoax without implying there won't be a UMTS WM Treo (as specifically promised to Palm investors) without an antenna.

    Surur
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol
    Hi AdamaDBrown, Thanks for posting here. I think a lot of confusion could be cleared up if you could comment on this sentence from your Brighthand article:

    "Moreover, the original report of a slim Treo designed for Europe is false, and the company has no such model on the table."

    Is this verbatim from your sources or your interpretation of what was said? More to the point, can you comment on whether your sources meant:

    1) There is no slim Treo on the table;

    2) There's a slim Treo on the table but it wasn't designed for specifically for Europe;

    3) There's a slim Treo on the table and it was specifically designed not to be sold in Europe?
    4) There is a Treo designed for Europe, but its not slim?

    Surur
  7. #47  
    On a completely unrelated note, why is it that 'slim chance' and 'fat chance' mean the same thing? Shouldn't they mean the exact opposite?
    Why are ringtones always such a big issue? Don't people realize that they're obnoxious!? And why the Nintendo 'Wii'? What th-!?
  8. #48  
    I'm out. Hollywood is dead. For me a slimmer and antenna-less 700W is not interesting at all.

    I got used to symbian os pretty well, after my Treo 650 died under water. It was only meant to bridge the waiting time until the Hollywood Treo would appear. But as this thing will never show up, welcome Nokia N80, 3 MP camera, WiFi, 352x416 display, S60 3rd edition.
  9. xtant21's Avatar
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    #49  
    I agree the "source" that Brighthand refers to states that "Hollywood" is not any device that Palm is developing or has any intention of admitting to. This "source" does not say there is a no antenna form factor slimmed down GSM Treo sporting UMTS. I think this has been blown out of proportion by codenames.
  10. #50  
    I hope they might have decided to call it something else. Unless Wirt was lying, yes there is a UMTS WM Treo coming, but the name isn't Hollywood. Maybe it is the 700w, would be nice if they dropped the antenna and slimmed it down a little. And gave us 64MB RAM while they are at it.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamaDBrown
    Well, I haven't seen this contract, nor do I know what it says, so all I know about it is what you've just said. I don't know what relevance it has, or what it promises to deliver, or when, so I'd be hard pressed to see how it connects to current events. The Treos have always been available internationally, and upgrading to UMTS is the only logical step. As I recall, the 650 is currently available on most of the large international networks like Vodafone and Orange, as was the 600 before it.



    Good for them. But "no antenna" and UMTS don't neccessarily translate to "Hollywood, stylish slimphone designed for Europe." They'd have been silly not to include UMTS in their new GSM devices, and a slight casing redesign to get on the same page as most other manufacturers is hardly a shock. Yes, Europe was probably a consideration in the design process, but so was the US, where antennas aren't exactly demanded by the populace.
    It connects to current events but you seem to be denying the current events. You see, one of Palms motivating factors in partnering with Microsoft over 2 years ago - yes, that's right, over 2 years ago - was to service (get a piece of the pie) this EMEA market. You seem to be forgetting that the PalmOS is dead... or, are you in denial just as the rest of this forum is? The only reason I hang around here is that I hope Palm will surprise us with something. This soap opera ain't over yet (but it will be for me as soon as I see that the only Palm OS/Access based phone released from Palm Inc this year is under $199. That means they will be using Microsoft Mobile exclusively for their smartphones. I will not be using these Microsoft based phones, regardless of the form factor. The reasons are too numerous to mention here and you probably wouldn't care for them anyway.

    As far as EMEA availability goes for the 650, the only carriers that I could find were as follows:

    1 in Algers, Africa (What about the other 53 countries in Africa?)
    0 in the Middle East
    1 in Swiss and 1 in Poland (there are a lot more European countires to provide for)

    This is not a strong showing. You can purchase the Treo elsewhere but they just don't have the needed partnerships. Why is that? It is because they don't use the Palm OS there. They want Windows devcies. That is why Palm built a new research facility in Dublin last year, to develop these new Windows based devices for Africa, the Middle East and all of Europe. Are you going to tell me this isn't real too?

    And eventually they will bring something from that facility to the states - but it will undoubtedly have Microsoft Mobile on it. I won't be playing with that.


    Quote Originally Posted by AdamaDBrown
    Think about it this way. Look at the specs on the new GSM Treo. Now, think about whether it would make any sense to have both that, and the GSM version of the Treo 700w. It wouldn't: they're nearly identical in terms of specs and design. Logically, one would conclude that this is the GSM equivalent to the 700w. Also, note that European UMTS networks only run on 2100 MHz, while US UMTS networks run on 850/1900 (currently 1900). UMTS devices designed strictly for Europe won't work here, and vice versa. This device was tested on the US Cingular UMTS net, therefore it can't be a Europe-only device.
    As far as "Hollywood" goes it may or may not be a code name, don't know, don't care. It is mostly the concept, the idea... a reference name. Regardless, I guarantee Palm will release a more svelte, antenna-less Treo running Windows Mobile, which is what "Hollywood" has been used for to reference.

    On a side note, I can't believe you have an issue with "UMTS devices designed strictly for Europe not working here, and vice versa". That doesn't make sense. Why do you think companies make and sell tri-band phones... world wide?
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    As far as EMEA availability goes for the 650, the only carriers that I could find were as follows:

    1 in Algers, Africa (What about the other 53 countries in Africa?)
    0 in the Middle East
    1 in Swiss and 1 in Poland (there are a lot more European countires to provide for)
    Off the top of my head:

    Orange - UK, France, Switzerland
    Vodafone - Spain
    TIM - Italy
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    It connects to current events but you seem to be denying the current events. You see, one of Palms motivating factors in partnering with Microsoft over 2 years ago - yes, that's right, over 2 years ago - was to service (get a piece of the pie) this EMEA market. You seem to be forgetting that the PalmOS is dead... or, are you in denial just as the rest of this forum is? The only reason I hang around here is that I hope Palm will surprise us with something. This soap opera ain't over yet (but it will be for me as soon as I see that the only Palm OS/Access based phone released from Palm Inc this year is under $199. That means they will be using Microsoft Mobile exclusively for their smartphones. I will not be using these Microsoft based phones, regardless of the form factor. The reasons are too numerous to mention here and you probably wouldn't care for them anyway.

    As far as EMEA availability goes for the 650, the only carriers that I could find were as follows:

    1 in Algers, Africa (What about the other 53 countries in Africa?)
    0 in the Middle East
    1 in Swiss and 1 in Poland (there are a lot more European countires to provide for)

    This is not a strong showing. You can purchase the Treo elsewhere but they just don't have the needed partnerships. Why is that? It is because they don't use the Palm OS there. They want Windows devcies. That is why Palm built a new research facility in Dublin last year, to develop these new Windows based devices for Africa, the Middle East and all of Europe. Are you going to tell me this isn't real too?

    And eventually they will bring something from that facility to the states - but it will undoubtedly have Microsoft Mobile on it. I won't be playing with that.



    As far as "Hollywood" goes it may or may not be a code name, don't know, don't care. It is mostly the concept, the idea... a reference name. Regardless, I guarantee Palm will release a more svelte, antenna-less Treo running Windows Mobile, which is what "Hollywood" has been used for to reference.

    On a side note, I can't believe you have an issue with "UMTS devices designed strictly for Europe not working here, and vice versa". That doesn't make sense. Why do you think companies make and sell tri-band phones... world wide?
    Archie there will not be any Access (ALPS) based Palm phone this year. It has been widely reported in LEGITIMATE press that it will be 2007. We all knew already that the MS Palm agreement was built 2 years ago. I could probably take you to the bar where they met in secret to lay the framework. SO your information is as old as dirt and about as worthless.

    As to arguing about the Hollywood code name you amaze me that you state so strongly and then conversely state that you could care less about the code name not really existing. Then why are you so concerned? If not then don't bring the issue up. The real point to the Brighthand article is it blowing the cover off the long rumored Hollywood (codenamed) product so many were duped into believing at the hands of a major Palm stockholder who claimed to have insider information it was sharing openly on the internet. That is the REAL news of this all. By the way, that report was concurrent to them openly begging Palm to sell the company os they could profit handsomely. Think they had motives for doing so? Absolutely.

    Obviously many of us have a like or dislike for a particular product or company. Some only want an POS device while others like WM5. Yet others buy because they like the form factor or a feature. So you don't like MS. That is fine but hardly a reason to fight about it and try to argue logic away from reality.

    One of my favorite lyrics in musical history is from an old Doobie Brothers song What A Fool Believes. It goes like this..."No wise man can reason away what a fool believes." If you hate MS or you hate POS or you hate something else you are not going to be able to convince any of us to switch just like I can not convince you that MS is a good thing. I personally know MS and the Gates Foundation spends $100's of Millions to provide aid to those in need worldwide, computers to schools and a lot of other things to help humanity. But that is not going to change your mind or anyone else's so I don't make that argument.

    Let the facts stand. Let the future unfold and enjoy life just a little...
  14. #54  
    Archie, why do you hate WM? Just out of interest. I always like hearing new reasons, often very wrong.

    BTW, Gharrod, the Brighthand report, being based on anonymous sources, should have no more veracity than the Sagio report, who afterall own 5% of the company.

    Surur
  15. cardio's Avatar
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    #55  
    The person who posted the pictures (Awggie) sure has been awful quite after he posted the pictures. Makes one wonder where he went, did the palm police apprehend him, did his company pull his phone back and threaten him, did he rebuild a device just to get the attention? I sent PM and e-mail to him with no replies to either.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  16. xtant21's Avatar
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    #56  
    Ok this is probably the wrong place to put this but we all seem to bring this up in every forum. The binary views of everyone when it comes to OS has got to stop people. Ok, so you like POS or you like WM5. I've used them both and I have to admit they both have their strengths and weaknesses. I like and hate certain parts of both. If I could mash them together I'd probably realize Treo Nirvana but I'm not going to change anyones mind about what THEY like.

    Not that I am a fan of either side...but things look a bit bleak for POS these days...other than the Treo how many SmartPhones are running POS? Not many. How many are running some flavor of WM...almost all. It stands to reason that if Access doesn't put out one smoking version of POS in the future Palm may have made their last POS based Treo. This will really be a sad day...because again, I think both OSs have something special and to lose POS would destroy the need for WM to innovate...until Firefox came around we were all using IE6 for what felt like 10 years without a change. Competition is good. Love your OS and pick your Treo based on it while you can and hope you can for a long time.

    Unfortunately, arguing over which one is better isn't going to get us anywhere at this point. The decision will be made for us in the future by Palm...based on sales the WM5 Treo isn't doing too bad. It will be interesting to see what happens IF the famed 700p exists and is released by Sprint in May or June. If the sales aren't as good as the 700w it could spell the end of POS on Treos. What sucks is there isn't a cool new version of POS to release so the wow factor may be a bit lower unless Palm has added some other types of goodies to the POS/Treo experience.

    No matter what we discuss in these forums, I think this year will be very important for determining the future of the Treo just on OS alone. IF (yes, IF) the pics of the (what has been referred to as) Hollywood are real then that means two major U.S. carriers both have WM5 and only one has POS (so far). Is that supposed to tell us something about the future of POS? Don't know...but IF the 700p comes out I want to play with both the 700w and 700p to see what I like better before buying...then I just have to hope my carrier has that model.
    Last edited by xtant21; 04/20/2006 at 11:12 AM.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    It also looks like it might be a little wider than the Treo, more like a BB. I have asked Awggie to post some side by side shots. He says he uses a 700W as his phone so it should be pretty simple to snap a couple of shots.
    No wonder he can't get better focus on his pictures!
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21
    I agree the "source" that Brighthand refers to states that "Hollywood" is not any device that Palm is developing or has any intention of admitting to. This "source" does not say there is a no antenna form factor slimmed down GSM Treo sporting UMTS. I think this has been blown out of proportion by codenames.
    Yes, very modern twist on life: "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

    I can hear Palm PRPRPR $now$ - &$quot$;$Oh$, $gracious$ $no$, $we$ $don$'$t$ $have$ $a$ '$Hollywood$' $in$ $development$. $Now$, $don$'$t$ $ask$ $me$ $about$ $that$ $starved$ $looking$ $700w$ $in$ $the$ $corner$ $with$ $no$ $antennae$....&$quot$;
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  19. hova's Avatar
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by ShannonElements
    On a completely unrelated note, why is it that 'slim chance' and 'fat chance' mean the same thing? Shouldn't they mean the exact opposite?
    thats because the really dont mean the same thing, people often use them wrong.

    Slim Chance = optimistic.
    Example: There's a "slim chance" that could happen.

    Fat Chance = pessimist.
    Example: "Fat chance" of that happening!
    "Bite the hand that feeds you,.......They'll always be impressed by the sharpness of your teeth."-Peggy Sellers (Miriam Margolyes)
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    The person who posted the pictures (Awggie) sure has been awful quite after he posted the pictures. Makes one wonder where he went, did the palm police apprehend him, did his company pull his phone back and threaten him, did he rebuild a device just to get the attention? I sent PM and e-mail to him with no replies to either.
    Look back and that is the case with all of these. It is now to be expected they post and run.
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