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  1.    #1  
    OK, I've got my flame retardant undies on, so here goes:

    Phase out PalmOS altogether, or relegate to "free" smartphones.

    Skip ALPO and other Linux variants - save your resources.

    Use your creative programming genius (yes, they did create the FIRST and only stylus free PDA environment) to:
    • Improve one-handed dialing
    • Improve WM5 stylus free operations
    Use your tech gremlins to:
    • Shrink the Treo 700 in all directions (ala "Hollywood")
    • Increase on board RAM to 1gb minimum
    • Add WiFi - other WM5 devices have it that cost LESS
    • Make comm data seamless wherever you go: Cell>EVDO>WiFi
    • Kidnap Slingbox and make it a standard for media sharing
    • Either ditch camera or get a REAL lens for a multi-megapixel camera
    • Bluetooth headsets AND stereo
    • Branch out into protected screen flip phones
    Palm could be the best WM5 integrator out there, melding good hardware design with a "Much Better Than WM5" interface experience on a WM5 multi-asking platform.
    There - I said it. Light the torches and flame throwers.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  2. #2  
    You forgot to add an offering of colors, such as spray paint blue.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  3. #3  
    I agree except for the part about standardizing on WM5. It has it's place, but I'd like to stay from yet another monopoly at least as long as possible.

    Plus if it's on something open like Linux, it doesn't require Palm's resources. Hundreds of thousands or even millions of developers would be working on it if it was opened. Look at the hoops that ShadowMite had to go through to make wifi work without the code being available. With the code available, I'm betting he does it a lot faster.
  4. #4  
    I would love to see all of that but the cost for Palm would be too great. A product that incorporates all the aspects you mentions would cost the user too much for it to be considered feasible. By including different features along the line, the cost of the product can remain reaosonable.

    But I do like your thinking and would be the first to buy your customized Treo. And if you're going to standardize WM5 than you have to at least upgrade to a 320X320 screen (if not 480X480)!!
  5. #5  
    The goal of any product is to get peeps on an upgrade cycle. The trade press has consistently rated the 700w as "almost as good as the 650". As this mirrors the user experience from many of their existing customers, the "mindshare" just isn't there....at lest not yet. From my perspective, I'd rather see them drop WM5 and concentrte on something where they will have more control and which is more flexible.

    But I think Palm is going to be very reluctant to put "all their eggs in one basket". They got bit with Cobalt being their only option and I don't see them making that mistake again.

    I also prefer the stylus in many instances (i.e EDGE, Sudoku)....and wouldn't use anything with a hinge. No reason why a hinge couldn't be an accessory tho. The thing that gives Palm its "zen" is that it can be used in many different ways.

    Don't like the way it's set up, customize your ROM. Don't like the provided media player, take it out and use the one you want. Use stylus or 5 way. WM generally isn't as "friendly" to this flexibility. Flexibility has always been Palm's strength and I think they hold that as one of the key to their success.
  6. #6  
    Flexibility has been POS's main weakness, and has made life very difficult for third party developers. Only now, with the cull of other OEM's and product lines have things settled down a bit.

    Surur
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwein84
    I would love to see all of that but the cost for Palm would be too great. A product that incorporates all the aspects you mentions would cost the user too much for it to be considered feasible. By including different features along the line, the cost of the product can remain reaosonable.

    But I do like your thinking and would be the first to buy your customized Treo. And if you're going to standardize WM5 than you have to at least upgrade to a 320X320 screen (if not 480X480)!!
    I beg to differ. That combination is acheivable (maybe another year or two) but the pieces already exist for all of these features. But if Palm is waiting for ALPO, with API's not even available before the end of this year, then it will be 2010 before you see this - while HTC, Samsung, Motorola, and lord knows who else will already be releasing version 3 of the same thing.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  8. #8  
    I don't want wm, neither do most of the currect Treo users (becuase the ones who do have migranted already.)
  9. jimn367's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    I don't want wm, neither do most of the currect Treo users (becuase the ones who do have migranted already.)
    I think that's a bit of an over-generalization.

    I also feel the lukewarm reviews of the 700 ware a little biased. The 700w is a completely different beast with different ways of doing things. Asking Walt for an unbiased review is impossible.

    I have used both Palm and PPC phones. Both have strengths and weaknesses and I'm not interested in a my daddy can beat up your daddy debate.

    WM5 offers Palm a much better growth path than Frankengarnet. Maybe some people know more than the rest of us, but ALP is all wishes and dreams right now. You cannot pin the hopes of a publicly traded company on wishes and dreams.

    Bottom line, current smartphone users are only a fraction of the projected smartphone market (expected to grow by 500% in 6 years). Those 400% new entrants aren't carrying the same Palm/PPC/Symbian/RIM baggage you and I are.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimn367
    Bottom line, current smartphone users are only a fraction of the projected smartphone market (expected to grow by 500% in 6 years). Those 400% new entrants aren't carrying the same Palm/PPC/Symbian/RIM baggage you and I are.
    Thats the theory, but e.g. Symbian phones sell really well (in the 10's of millions) but people dont really use their capabilities. I sometimes feel the people who really want and would use smartphones have got them already, and everyone else are poseurs, who would be much happier with a Razr than a Treo.

    Smartphones have not found their killer app yet. E-mail seems to be one, but its disappointing how poorly e.g. Instant Messaging is integrated and promoted by these devices. Something like froogle integrated into the today screen and e-bay auctions, things people care about and which would benefit from being done on the go, needs to be much better provided for out of the box.

    Surur
  11. #11  
    Well if what is referred to here turns out to be true.....MS releasing their own branded phone by end of year.....how does Palm compete with that ?

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=110717
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Well if what is referred to here turns out to be true.....MS releasing their own branded phone by end of year.....how does Palm compete with that ?

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=110717
    Quote Originally Posted by Ballmer
    It's going to take an innovative proposition. In five years are people really going to carry two devices? One device that is their communication device, one device that is music? There's going to be a lot of opportunities to get back in that game. We want to be in that game. Expect to see announcements from us in that area in the next 12 months.
    This hardly suggests to me that MS will release a phone. This is similar hype that made people think MS would make Origami UMPC's, but in the end it was just another OEM initiative. Maybe he's talking about WM Photon, the next version of WM ( WM5 was released May 2005, so WM6 would be due beginning next year(18 months later))

    Surur
  13. #13  
    Well I think the points are that:

    MS has jumped into the Mouse market ... who woulda guessed ?
    MS has jumped into the ortable gaming market ... who woulda guessed ?
    MS has hit a wall with regard to their stock.
    Where else can they go ?

    I think it's highly possible that they may release their own phone; its certainly not a certainty. In any case, I think palm had this in their heads long before and is the reason I think they will hedge their bets and have at least two directions to go in.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    I think it's highly possible that they may release their own phone; its certainly not a certainty. In any case, I think palm had this in their heads long before and is the reason I think they will hedge their bets and have at least two directions to go in.
    Why though? WM is not doing poorly. Its growing pretty well. Why would it need additional direct support? What would MS gain by doing this, except force HTC, Eten, Gigabyte, Mitac, HP, Dell and Palm to go Linux?

    Surur
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I sometimes feel the people who really want and would use smartphones have got them already, and everyone else are poseurs, who would be much happier with a Razr than a Treo.
    But isn't a RAZR more capable than the original Palm Pilot? Especially with VCAST?

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Smartphones have not found their killer app yet. E-mail seems to be one, but its disappointing how poorly e.g. Instant Messaging is integrated and promoted by these devices. Something like froogle integrated into the today screen and e-bay auctions, things people care about and which would benefit from being done on the go, needs to be much better provided for out of the box.
    I personally think the problem is simply a lack of simplicity. Name me something you can do with an ipod that you couldn't do 4 years ago with a PDA, and couldn't do with a smartphone 3 years ago. Nada. While you and I find this capability neat, it's hobby-like in it's utility and implementation.

    People like Blackberry's and ipods not because of their power, but because of their simplicity.

    Hand me blackberry, turn on, mail.

    Hand me treo, research to find best mail solution, download and install applications, attempt to configure IMAP and POP3 settings (let's see Joe blow do this), fail, call for help, get it installed only to crash my treo due to a software conflict, start again, then after getting help from some-one, mail.

    Hand me ipod, download music, video, and podcasts, and rip CDs through unified portal interface, automatically sync, play music and video.

    Hand me treo, research, *wait* I must buy pocket tunes upgrade to get WM9/10 integration - $29.95 out of my pocket, growl under my breath, wait more research for video, gotta get mmplayer, but I gotta manually transfer files to my device and make sure file types are compatible, how do I do podcasts? More research *wait* pocket tunes doesn't support AAC podcasts. More research, Buy Aeroplayer for $29.95, growl again, manually get podcast files and put them on device, play some music and video

    IMO a dumbed-down (for lack of a better term) Treo with itunes and IM integration with much greater stability is what is required.

    I love my smartphones, but when I hand it to someone to make a call they look at me and ask someone else for a normal phone. That is starting to change because Blackberry has made 'bricks' more acceptable.

    Start with something simple and flashy and let the market demand determine features.
    Last edited by jimn367; 03/28/2006 at 03:29 PM.
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    #16  
    MS has built several reference phone designs. I think if MS were to make a major move in the phone market they would aquire a handset maker.
  17. jimn367's Avatar
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    #17  
    Getting back to the original intent of this thread I would like to see some product divergence, or a second non treo Palm phone line.

    Thing's I'd like to see:
    1) A treo with SKII or PPC 6700 form factor. 320x480 screen, wifi and bluetooth, 30G hard drive. Basically a LD with phone and keyboard.
    2) A treo with MP3 controls on a flip lid, which folds down to a thumboard. Kinda like the Sony Erricson design. Fewer features, good multi-media integration experience.
    3) A Palm UMPC with built in phone radio and bluetooth headset support.
  18. #18  
    Yes, its all about ease of use, and Palm obviously understands it. They are not taking it far enough though (probably limited by POS). The google search from the today screen was a very good start.

    Surur
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimn367
    MS has built several reference phone designs. I think if MS were to make a major move in the phone market they would aquire a handset maker.
    Most outfits now have their sets made by someone else in Taiwan.....Did MS buy a mouse make or a game console maker ?

    The only think holding MS back I think, as Surur says, would be losing HP, Dell and all the other WM5 makers.
  20.    #20  
    jimn367:

    That was a great analysis of the problem for average joe. The guys at work have all liked my Treo 650, then my Cingular 8125, but all I ever hear is "can't you just turn it on and make a call, or see your email. What's with all this 'configuration' garbage?"

    Their buddy's BB "just works" as does their kid's Nano and their Moto v551.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
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