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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by KStewart
    Damn...with all due respect, that makes sence, and I don't have my MBA. I took economics and marketing in college though.

    Agreed. Look at what apple does. They don't announce a product until the day they are going to sell it. Sometimes it's a few days later, but it's always very close to the release date. It may not be the "nice" thing to do, but it's certainly a good marketing strategy.

    And now:
    My 700P will be better than your 700p!

    Signed,
    The n00b!

    P.s. Bow before me!

    Don't just see the n00b, be the n00b! Wait, no...
  2. #22  
    Right the big difference is Apple innovates with new products while Palm is currently playing catch up big time. Like it really matters what they are going to release, its not like they are innovating anything new with the 700P. Hell many will look at it as the least Palm could possible do to get people to upgrade and that isn't exactly a good thing.

    If Palm was introducing something actually innovating I'd agree with you right now all they are doing is pissing off their loyal users some of whom have already jumped ship to WM 5. There is no reason to wait, that is unless they are desperate to sell more 650's which is most likely the case.

    Bad enough they are still using the same old OS in the 700P. I mean come on its time for a real update. EDVO is certainly welcome as will more memory but Treo users are so desperate for a bone they'll take almost anything.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon
    Right the big difference is Apple innovates with new products while Palm is currently playing catch up big time. Like it really matters what they are going to release, its not like they are innovating anything new with the 700P. Hell many will look at it as the least Palm could possible do to get people to upgrade and that isn't exactly a good thing.
    Though to be fair, apple hasn't released anything innovating recently. Their speaker system, though decent, isn't anything new. 3rd party vendors have already been providing ipod-specific speaker systems for years. Some of the ipod boomboxes are considered by many to be a superior design to apple's version as it is. The intel macs aren't really anything new anymore, new (to apple) architecture, but old hat to the rest of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon
    If Palm was introducing something actually innovating I'd agree with you right now all they are doing is pissing off their loyal users some of whom have already jumped ship to WM 5. There is no reason to wait, that is unless they are desperate to sell more 650's which is most likely the case.

    Bad enough they are still using the same old OS in the 700P. I mean come on its time for a real update. EDVO is certainly welcome as will more memory but Treo users are so desperate for a bone they'll take almost anything.
    Agreed
    They should have had an updated OS by now; the Cobalt miscarraige happened over a year ago, there has been ample time to rebound from that embarrassment. At this point, it seems we'll be waiting a few more years for a new OS (though I'm exited about the linux core, should bring good things)

    I can't deny that OS 5 has been much improved since it first launched, my bro's T|X has a lot of nice new features in 5.4.9 that are a welcome improvement over 5.2.1 in my Z71
    HP95LX--->Palm m130--->Palm Zire71--->Treo 700P --->Palm Pré
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon
    Right the big difference is Apple innovates with new products while Palm is currently playing catch up big time. Like it really matters what they are going to release, its not like they are innovating anything new with the 700P. Hell many will look at it as the least Palm could possible do to get people to upgrade and that isn't exactly a good thing.

    If Palm was introducing something actually innovating I'd agree with you right now all they are doing is pissing off their loyal users some of whom have already jumped ship to WM 5. There is no reason to wait, that is unless they are desperate to sell more 650's which is most likely the case.

    Bad enough they are still using the same old OS in the 700P. I mean come on its time for a real update. EDVO is certainly welcome as will more memory but Treo users are so desperate for a bone they'll take almost anything.
    I definately agree with that, but good or bad marketing can help make or break a product. It's definately true though that Palm is playing catch-up as EVDO and the higher memory that the 700P is speculated to have are definately not new things. The only reason I'm waiting to get a 700 over a 650 is that I want these two things, but these seem to be the only advantage. It's quite disappointing that there isn't more to be excited about. Personally I have no need for wi-fi, and had it not been added to make room for some extra features that needed that room, then I would be fine with that, but to just not add it seems lazy, especially considering most of their competition seems to have this as standard on their products. The 700w upgrade from 650 seems to have been a disappointment. We can only hope the 700p won't be the same, especially with making us wait so long for it. (I don't see any reason they couldn't have released the phones simultaniously as they will be on exclusive networks for a while.)

    And now:
    My 700P will be better than your 700p!

    Signed,
    The n00b!

    P.s. Bow before me!

    Don't just see the n00b, be the n00b! Wait, no...
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon
    Bad enough they are still using the same old OS in the 700P. I mean come on its time for a real update.
    And what you suggest Palm should upgrade too??? I mean cobalt is failure and cant be launched and ALP is not yet licensed. So what you think should Palm do? Wait till ALP is released? This upgrade is major due to EVDO and memory. If you dont want it then wait till ALP based Treo is released.
    Same isue is with Treo700(P or W) for GSM. Why would anyone buy a new treo when major gsm companies in US have EDGE as fastest connection (while they are testing faster connection, its not widely available). Thank God for hollywood (codename for gsm based leaner Treo) gsm users can hope for something too. I think Palm is isolated due to Palm OS. If they wouldnt release Treo700W they would be in a mess they created themselves by parting PalmSource.
    I think Palm is in different league now after WM5. They can grow up without spending too much on software development of OS (see all customization in Garnet) and release hardware that can compete in market for its form factor and dedicated users while waiting for new ALP OS release.
    Till new ALP OS we can not expect Palm to release anything new. We just have to wait for ACCESS to release ALP.
    Technological superiority has never won a product battle. If that were the case we would all be flying in supersonic Concordes and using Apple computers.

    The key to winning the battle is a combination of price, convenience, marketing, sound business model and a bit of luck.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon
    Right the big difference is Apple innovates with new products while Palm is currently playing catch up big time.
    Palm is only playing catch up in the announcements or vaporware area. In the I can walk in and buy it arena, hard to find many Palm competitors on the "whole package". Yes there are phones that have a feature that Palm has but that's at the cost of things that palm has and the other don't. If these phones were so great, we wouldn't have the "I just brought back my [insert latest fadphone here] and went back to my 650 / 700 threads].
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by KStewart
    Damn...with all due respect, that makes sence, and I don't have my MBA. I took economics and marketing in college though.
    Hey if that is what you become after MBA, I sure am happy that I left it alone long time ago. Hey if I did my MBA. I wont be raving about it here on forums and bashing others. Its simple common sense. At this time Palm is in good position not to release any info. Since there is no smartphone that is taking throne from Treo650 (and since they already have Treo700W in the market) they can sit back, relax and laugh their asses off at all rumors here on Treocentral. They will release Treo700P and Hollywood (codenamed) whenever they want. Hey I wont be surprised if they release Treo700P in June and Hollywood in the end of year near holiday season. I may be wrong, but why you will release a brand new product when old one selling like a hot cake in the market where new phones are popping up every month.

    Personally though, I want my Treo700P and hollywood today. Where the hell is that person who promised me March15 as a Treo700P release date. Can someone shoot him for me. I got to find that thread. Damn you, you....you moron started this whole new rumor mill and got me excited. I hope you wont get any treo untill ALP based treo is released.
    Technological superiority has never won a product battle. If that were the case we would all be flying in supersonic Concordes and using Apple computers.

    The key to winning the battle is a combination of price, convenience, marketing, sound business model and a bit of luck.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehsan
    Same isue is with Treo700(P or W) for GSM. Why would anyone buy a new treo when major gsm companies in US have EDGE as fastest connection (while they are testing faster connection, its not widely available). Thank God for hollywood (codename for gsm based leaner Treo) gsm users can hope for something too. I think Palm is isolated due to Palm OS. If they wouldnt release Treo700W they would be in a mess they created themselves by parting PalmSource.
    When Verizon launched the 700w, they had EVDO coverage in 50 metropolitan areas (MA's). At that time, UTMS was avialble in 20 MA's.....On the 1st of March, Cingular had 51 MA's . If they followed Verizon's schedule, they could release already. At about 15 MA's being added per month, they should have complete "major market coverage" (MMC) by year's end. Unfortunately MMC means that huge suburban areas will still be left out, despite 1.7 million peeps in my county ( a NYC suburb), we have no EVDO coverage (last I checked the maps anyway).

    I would think that the release has more to do with palm's schedule than Cingular's just as the 700p is more to do with verizon's exclusive. Cingular's implementation plan now has them jumping right to HSDPA 3.6 instead of starting with 1.8 and then upgrading. HSDPA 3.6 was demonstrated in January at the CES.

    Assuming Palm doesn't intentionally limit the thing to 1.8, with 3.6 it will be twice as fast as EVDO and many have therefore predicted that this combined with the new fom factor and other improvements will make the GSM model the 800p or "Hollywood" model.

    Of course this is all speculation based upon exec hints, stock reports and other "I can't talk but I do know this" statements so we won't really know until the 3rd quarter gets a little closer. Just as the 700p is now pretty much a given for a may-july release, we should start getting firmer links on Hollywood come July-August.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    When Verizon launched the 700w, they had EVDO coverage in 50 metropolitan areas (MA's). At that time, UTMS was avialble in 20 MA's.....On the 1st of March, Cingular had 51 MA's . If they followed Verizon's schedule, they could release already. At about 15 MA's being added per month, they should have complete "major market coverage" (MMC) by year's end. Unfortunately MMC means that huge suburban areas will still be left out, despite 1.7 million peeps in my county ( a NYC suburb), we have no EVDO coverage (last I checked the maps anyway).

    I would think that the release has more to do with palm's schedule than Cingular's just as the 700p is more to do with verizon's exclusive. Cingular's implementation plan now has them jumping right to HSDPA 3.6 instead of starting with 1.8 and then upgrading. HSDPA 3.6 was demonstrated in January at the CES.

    Assuming Palm doesn't intentionally limit the thing to 1.8, with 3.6 it will be twice as fast as EVDO and many have therefore predicted that this combined with the new fom factor and other improvements will make the GSM model the 800p or "Hollywood" model.

    Of course this is all speculation based upon exec hints, stock reports and other "I can't talk but I do know this" statements so we won't really know until the 3rd quarter gets a little closer. Just as the 700p is now pretty much a given for a may-july release, we should start getting firmer links on Hollywood come July-August.
    I think, since Hollywood would be europe release (majorly). Palm will follow their standard. Asian and American markets are not in the game of HSDPA yet, whereas europe already enjoying video calls on their phones. So I think hollywood that is why will be released in Europe first and then here in USA. I think USA will see hollywood (with major company partnership, i.e Cingular or AT&T, damn these name changes) in holiday season. I would love to see Treo hollywood version to be smuggled in US from Europe. Its nice thing, change that is. I thought we will be importing symbian based phones before this
    Technological superiority has never won a product battle. If that were the case we would all be flying in supersonic Concordes and using Apple computers.

    The key to winning the battle is a combination of price, convenience, marketing, sound business model and a bit of luck.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by nightcap
    With all due respect LT, from which university did you receive your MBA? There is absolutely no advantage to Palm to pre-announce, and quite a number of good reasons why they should not. It's out of print now, but John Dvorak wrote a history of the late Osborne Computer Corporation in a book called "Hypergrowth." One of the many sins of Adam Osborne (may he rest in peace) was to pre-announce the next version. Customers sat on their wallets awaiting the Next Big Thing, cash flow dried up, stock piled up in warehouses, manufacturing delays stalled the new line, and bankruptcy followed shortly thereafter.

    Or, as is written in another book of the same era that is still in print (Bored of the Rings):
    "Against the True King Sorhed's workin',
    So play your cards close to your jerkin.
    For fortune strums a mournful tune,
    For those whose campaigns peak too soon."



    -- Bill
    I'm not saying announce too early, but we need a heads up or people will think nothing is coming and just move on to other products! I run my own business and if I'm too slow, the competition wins! You have to tell people what you have to offer, or they will go elsewhere if they're looking to buy!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceUponAn00b
    Agreed. Look at what apple does. They don't announce a product until the day they are going to sell it. Sometimes it's a few days later, but it's always very close to the release date. It may not be the "nice" thing to do, but it's certainly a good marketing strategy.
    I still disagree. I remember some people were looking for back-to-school notebooks and were very unhappy that Apple released those new Powerbooks(about 3 yrs. ago I think)right AFTER school started, with short notice. They had gone ahead and bought the old models. Some were angry they bought what they considered a now outdated Powerbook, some as recently as the week before.

    It may be "marketing", but it's also a good way to **** people off. I call it ambush marketing, to not give people a heads up so they can make an informed choice as to whether or not they want the old or new device(especially if the new device is the same price as the old one, as in the case of the new Powerbooks). Like I said before, it doesn't have to be MONTHS in advance, I agree that would be bad. But how about a one month heads up?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #32  
    Really curious to see if palm will mention anything during the quarterly report two days from now. I won't be able to sit in on the call but will constantly checking TC for posts and info.
    "Cable Modem? DSL? click http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7346966394232063929 to understand quake "
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Palm is only playing catch up in the announcements or vaporware area. In the I can walk in and buy it arena, hard to find many Palm competitors on the "whole package". Yes there are phones that have a feature that Palm has but that's at the cost of things that palm has and the other don't. If these phones were so great, we wouldn't have the "I just brought back my [insert latest fadphone here] and went back to my 650 / 700 threads].

    I think the big reason we see so many people switch back is that the Palm OS really hasn't changed much. Yes, more features have been added and it has had overall improvement, but I can use a Palm device from 10 yrs ago, and it runs pretty much exactly the same as a new Palm device. The Palm OS is quite simplified. One thing I have noticed about other operating systems (let's go beyond just PDA operating systems but phone operating systems in general) is that companies try to make their systems easier to use by adding a lot of shortcuts or extra menus and whatnot, but in the end it makes it more complex. At least this is what I have personally observed. This could also be the reason that the Treo phones are pretty simple devices as well. They aren't cluttered with all kinds of extras that may or may not just be more of a hassle in the end. These products aren't trying to put the "wow!" into the consumers, they are build for business use. Many executives don't have time for a steep learning curve, so these products seem the perfect fit. Just my 2 cents.

    And now:
    My 700P will be better than your 700p!

    Signed,
    The n00b!

    P.s. Bow before me!

    Don't just see the n00b, be the n00b! Wait, no...
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehsan
    I think, since Hollywood would be europe release (majorly). Palm will follow their standard. Asian and American markets are not in the game of HSDPA yet, whereas europe already enjoying video calls on their phones. So I think hollywood that is why will be released in Europe first and then here in USA. I think USA will see hollywood (with major company partnership, i.e Cingular or AT&T, damn these name changes) in holiday season. I would love to see Treo hollywood version to be smuggled in US from Europe. Its nice thing, change that is. I thought we will be importing symbian based phones before this
    Oh I'd say Europe first isn't a possibility but a given. Palm will have to release in US within 3 months as that's how long it will take for people to start figiring out how to hack a European model to work in US. Again , HSDPA has the same penetration now in US as Verizon had when 700w was released. But Palm would et trashed if they released a new form factor right on the heels of the 700p / 700w. So methinks they are gonna hold off until it's far enough down the line that new 700w/700p owners don't get to pi$$ed.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Oh I'd say Europe first isn't a possibility but a given. Palm will have to release in US within 3 months as that's how long it will take for people to start figiring out how to hack a European model to work in US. Again , HSDPA has the same penetration now in US as Verizon had when 700w was released. But Palm would et trashed if they released a new form factor right on the heels of the 700p / 700w. So methinks they are gonna hold off until it's far enough down the line that new 700w/700p owners don't get to pi$$ed.
    Around holiday as I guessed
    Technological superiority has never won a product battle. If that were the case we would all be flying in supersonic Concordes and using Apple computers.

    The key to winning the battle is a combination of price, convenience, marketing, sound business model and a bit of luck.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceUponAn00b
    I think the big reason we see so many people switch back is that the Palm OS really hasn't changed much. Yes, more features have been added and it has had overall improvement, but I can use a Palm device from 10 yrs ago, and it runs pretty much exactly the same as a new Palm device. The Palm OS is quite simplified. One thing I have noticed about other operating systems (let's go beyond just PDA operating systems but phone operating systems in general) is that companies try to make their systems easier to use by adding a lot of shortcuts or extra menus and whatnot, but in the end it makes it more complex. At least this is what I have personally observed. This could also be the reason that the Treo phones are pretty simple devices as well. They aren't cluttered with all kinds of extras that may or may not just be more of a hassle in the end. These products aren't trying to put the "wow!" into the consumers, they are build for business use. Many executives don't have time for a steep learning curve, so these products seem the perfect fit. Just my 2 cents.
    I will give you 5 cents...
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehsan
    Around holiday as I guessed
    I'll throw out August 15th in Europe and October - November 15th here.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    I'll throw out August 15th in Europe and October - November 15th here.
    I would love to be wrong but with Treo700P releasing around June and almost time for other carriers to release 700W as well it would be very hard to believe that they will pop it out in November (I am talking about US release). I think it will be in december which will boost Palm sale for their last quarter.
    Technological superiority has never won a product battle. If that were the case we would all be flying in supersonic Concordes and using Apple computers.

    The key to winning the battle is a combination of price, convenience, marketing, sound business model and a bit of luck.
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