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  1.    #1  
    http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...ocksNews&story
    id=2006-03-04T013811Z_01_N03248623_RTRUKOC_0_US-PALM-STOCK.xml

    So thank you palm ,keep the news about 700 P release secret for as much long as you can .
    It definitely is not helping you.
    If there was a timely planned 700P release, during blackberry and NTP legal mess. Palm stocks would have been way up by now.
    Management at palm definitely needs some thinking people.
    With all the new competing devices , palm looks more and more like a sinking ship and a company without great future stratgey for growth.
    Treo's days are numbered."Some unknown device will kill it soon ".
  2. #2  
    Ok, conspiracy to keep this secret, management needs thinking people, sinkins ship, company without a great future strategy for growth. Or, or perhaps this phone only exists here on this board?
  3.    #3  
    Link not working .
    Here is the new link .
    Reuters softened the title in the new version.
    http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...PALM-STOCK.xml
    Treo's days are numbered."Some unknown device will kill it soon ".
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Ok, conspiracy to keep this secret, management needs thinking people, sinkins ship, company without a great future strategy for growth. Or, or perhaps this phone only exists here on this board?

    Fanboy, believe it or not that 's the reality.
    Treo's days are numbered."Some unknown device will kill it soon ".
  5. #5  
    I never did understand the Rimm VS, Palm (smartphone) thing. We are comparing a one dimensional device against a multi functioning device. I think the damage is already done and this whole litigation has opened the eyes of many to the Treo platform.

    I further believe Palm has already stolen customers from Rimm and with the addition of Windows mobile it is only a matter of time.

    Also Rimm is a monopoly that leaves no room for flexibility for it's user, heck at least with the Treo you can go and get any server you want, not so with Rimm.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by vikingjunior
    I never did understand the Rimm VS, Palm (smartphone) thing. We are comparing a one dimensional device against a multi functioning device. I think the damage is already done and this whole litigation has opened the eyes of many to the Treo platform.

    I further believe Palm has already stolen customers from Rimm and with the addition of Windows mobile it is only a matter of time.

    Also Rimm is a monopoly that leaves no room for flexibility for it's user, heck at least with the Treo you can go and get any server you want, not so with Rimm.

    That is the most well thought, complete common sence post I have ever read on TC.

    The things you posted are just now being discovered by corporate America and individuals alike which will propel Palm past RIMM and the Blackberry this year. The 1000's of Verizon TV commercials since 1/5 havent hurt either.
  7.    #7  
    You guys seem to be too optimistic .
    As of november last year, RIMM had 4.3 million subscribers. Palm had sold approx one million Treo's last year .So you know where they stand. RIMM is confident of adding a lot of subscribers after this settlement.

    An average busy joe ,does not have time to install zlauncher and use a number of 3rd party software to make a buggy device work.
    He, however , will probably be working for a company which will give him a free blackberry and will figure how the email works .
    Unfortunately not everyone is as techy as people on this board.
    Treo's days are numbered."Some unknown device will kill it soon ".
  8. #8  
    I really like my 8125, but its not just Palm that has missed the boat. M$oft and the carriers had a great window (pun intended) to slip in MS Server 2003 push email while RIM twisted in the wind - so where is the needed OS upgrade?

    Ultimately I think VikingJunior is right - one dimensional services won't stand up to diversified solutions. But RIM lives to fight another day nonetheless.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtreosexual
    You guys seem to be too optimistic .
    As of november last year, RIMM had 4.3 million subscribers. Palm had sold approx one million Treo's last year .So you know where they stand. RIMM is confident of adding a lot of subscribers after this settlement.

    An average busy joe ,does not have time to install zlauncher and use a number of 3rd party software to make a buggy device work.
    He, however , will probably be working for a company which will give him a free blackberry and will figure how the email works .
    Unfortunately not everyone is as techy as people on this board.
    Those numbers are before Palm added Windows Mobile. People are very familar and comfortable with Windows. Remember Palm is to release 4 devices this year, 3 we know are high speed capable. Palm has already lobbied the Gov't and several large coporations and still in a postion to steal market share. Give it a year.

    Sorry to hear your Treo is buggy.
  10.    #10  
    Great,
    That still is speculative at best.
    It will be difficult for Palm to break the userbase of RIMM
    Treo still has n't reached the whitehouse . Blackberries have been there for years. That tells you something. Also palm is not great in making perfect hardware .
    BTW, My GSM unlocked T650 is rock solid from day 1.
    Last edited by Mtreosexual; 03/04/2006 at 12:46 AM.
    Treo's days are numbered."Some unknown device will kill it soon ".
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by vikingjunior
    Those numbers are before Palm added Windows Mobile. People are very familar and comfortable with Windows. Remember Palm is to release 4 devices this year, 3 we know are high speed capable. Palm has already lobbied the Gov't and several large coporations and still in a postion to steal market share. Give it a year.

    Sorry to hear your Treo is buggy.
    I'm not sure how successfull they will be trying to crack the Enterprise market. We currently have over 2000 Blackberry users in my company and we are not about to switch to Treos.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on my experience with BB and my own personal Treo 600, its a lot easier to "screw up" a Treo than a BB. Its about the total cost of ownership and the support cost for the BB is significantly lower than I imagine it would be with the Treo.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtreosexual
    As of november last year, RIMM had 4.3 million subscribers. Palm had sold approx one million Treo's last year .So you know where they stand. RIMM is confident of adding a lot of subscribers after this settlement.
    OK lets look at some what the marketing / finance peeps call "indicators":

    -First let's do some math.....Palm actually sold 1.95 million Treos last year and 2.77 million other handhelds at total of 4.72 million units....that's 10% more than RIM did.

    -Palm recently took in a some cash from selling off PalmSource, BB spent a crapload of moola on legal fees and 613 million in a settlement. That equates to a loss = $145 per unit sold !

    -How many sales did they lose in the last 2 months....short term cash holdings can't be strong.

    -Branddimensions completed their brand loyalty study and just reported that Treo users are far more satisfied with their devices than BB users are.

    -Palm just launched an enormously successful Windows Mobile device.

    -HP has decided to stop developing product for the BB market and is focusing solely on "convergence" do it all devices.

    -Frost & Sullivan completes study that ays ROI on a Treo exceeds $11k

    -BB Connect in final testing for Windows and Palm platforms.

    - While "on hold" waiting for RIM / NTP case, many businesses looked at BB alternatives and found Treo offered better solution.

    -88,000 corporations now call themselves Palm customers.

    -BB made its name on push e-mail and synch with MS Exchange servers....they were the only ones who could do it. What advantanges does a BB have any more ? Everyone has push, everyone has BB connect, everyone can sync w/ MS exchange servers....they have nothing anymore that makes them stand out.

    But "buggy" device is an unfair label because these alleged bugs are only caused by overloading the device. If people want to be on the bleeding edge and buy a device the 1st day it's out expect to get a few cuts.,.....that's why they call it bleeding edge. Or wait 6 months and get the perfect device. Kinda like resisting the urge to be the first one on your block to install MS Vista so you waiting on line for the store to open up at 12:01 am. JoeCorporarte doesn't bother with this stuff cause he's been there before...when a user asks Joe for the new thing, he says "as soon as SP3 comes out, ya can have it".

    This is also kinda like the guy who buys a Porsche and then complains cause his car is stuck in just 6" of snow....with a 4" ground clearance, your wheels aren't touching the ground bud ! Why are SUV's so popular ?....they fit the soccer team, the hold the groceries, they get around in snow, they can move the furniture ....all of which counts for < 10% of their usage....they sell because it's there when people need it.....even if they don't need it often.

    Same with PC's....we didn't need PC's to do word processing and spreadsheets .... dumb terminals do just as good a job in a large office.....but IT wants 1,000 of the same thing on every desk and if 500 need Word Processing and spreadsheets and the rest need more, than they gonna be hardware that does more. They will put Word and Excel on 500 machines and the rest they will trick out as needed. Though if you buy 500 dumb terminals, you will not have that option cause these machines just won't have the horsepower.

    As for who should get what.....If you have trouble programming a VCR, have a "stock" Gateway computer, use internet explorer, have no spyware or adware programs and leave your windows update on automatic.....by all means get a BB. But if you switched to Mozilla / Opera, have TiVo, specified the hardware options on your computer, have multiple spyware / adware programs, and install windows updates only after doing a full system backup, then you are a TreoPower user. The peeps in the middle can only go one way .... get the device that is capable of doing more and only use the features you need.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by jw68
    I'm not sure how successfull they will be trying to crack the Enterprise market. We currently have over 2000 Blackberry users in my company and we are not about to switch to Treos.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on my experience with BB and my own personal Treo 600, its a lot easier to "screw up" a Treo than a BB. Its about the total cost of ownership and the support cost for the BB is significantly lower than I imagine it would be with the Treo.
    Exactly !!
    People are more comfortable checking there email with BB and push email. Buying chatter email fiddling with it than using a 1 gig card to store emails ,who has the time to do all that .
    Blackberry has a much wider screen , better keyboard , that is what is important for an averge joe who has to deal with 30-50 emails in a day.
    Treo's days are numbered."Some unknown device will kill it soon ".
  14.    #14  
    But "buggy" device is an unfair label because these alleged bugs are only caused by overloading the device. s .[/QUOTE]


    Are you freaking kidding, by saying that the T650 was a perfect device when it was launched ?
    Even palm realized this with constant upgrades to improve it .
    If it was advertised as a pda phone or smartphone .it should be able to do those basic functions properly .I am not talkin bout watching movies , MP3 player etc. With the bleak memory, it was not even able to store 150 -200 contacts . Thanks to z launcher and people on this board .Basic things like ,
    buying a 3rd party software to get the right volume on phone are annoying . For a 600 dollar device ,these were great shortcomings . I have already invested half the cost in buying 3rd party software to make it work.
    At least BB's do what they advertise and promise . That 's why the corporate world is using them .
    T700 w is a disastrous combination of a not so great hardware making company and often problematic and insecure Windooooz.
    Having said that, i have used T300, 600, & 650 with all there shortcomings and will probably stop my buisness with palm, as other options seem very attractive now , unlike few years ago.
    Last edited by Mtreosexual; 03/04/2006 at 12:47 AM.
    Treo's days are numbered."Some unknown device will kill it soon ".
  15. #15  
    I think Palm may be in trouble against BB for another reason. Because they are higher tech than BB, but getting mediocre at the same time. Who's going to keep buying updated Treos with no "real" updates? Many will go for the EVDO update, but after that, what other big "update" are they going to offer us for that kind of money? More memory, I guess. But they're going to have to do something really significant for 2007 and beyond. Small updates don't cut it for too long. The 8700 was a HUGE update for BB. And if they keep going in that direction, while Palm keeps up with puny updates...
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtreosexual
    Fanboy, believe it or not that 's the reality.
    I'm the biggest PalmOS fan on the planet, and even *I* admit that.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  17. #17  
    Are you freaking kidding, by saying that the T650 was a perfect device when it was launched ?
    No I quite clearly said that the day it was launched it was "bleeding edge" and you should expect to bleed if you jumped on it. If you wanted to be the first one on your block to have a Treo, then don't complain if the later models were improved over the one you got.

    With the bleak memory, it was not even able to store 150 -200 contacts .
    I have 1,663 contacts, 60 programs and 19.2 MB free. On day 1 (February 5th or so 2005), I had 1,598 contacts and 15.8 MB free....after installing a ton of programs to play with I had 12 MB free, most of those are gone now.

    Thanks to z launcher
    I don't have zlauncher...wouldn't if it was free. While a rather amazing accomplishment, ZL is just too much *stuff* for my blood....t0o many features I don't need. I know I don't need to use all the features but if I don't need to use em, I also don't need to have them. The less fluff, the less problems.

    Basic things like , buying a 3rd party software to get the right volume on phone are annoying .
    Don't have this either....Volcare is a great program tho that solved the edge bleeders problems before Palm did. These exclusivity agreements also cause a rush to market. Cingular and Verizon had much longer test periods and so when theirs came out, they had a more mature product. As I ahve watched this message board, and even been jealous of having to wait for GSM Treos, I am not so sure Cingular and Verizon mind not being on that bleeding edge.

    I have already invested half the cost in buying 3rd party software to make it work.
    I don't have anything that "makes it work". I have programs that perform functions (i.e TreoAlarm), I have enhancements that make it more functional or prettier (TMP). I have a map of every street, POI, and a host of other things in the US, Canada, Puerto Rico and Guam. I have a USB Thumb drive equivalent, I have a e-book reader, various databases, 2 browsers, various forms of entertainment, an MS Office equivalkent, PDF reader, several scientific calculators and various other programs but no "corrective measures", no annoying ringtones, no system hacks....like the poll that was taken here some months back, I am one of the 95% that have no Treo issues.

    That 's why the corporate world is using them .
    No, IT departents making buying decisions based upon being able to sync with exchange server is why people were buying them. If what you say is true, then why do customer satisfaction surveys show lower satisfaction with BB ?

    T700w is a disastrous combination of a not so great hardware making company and often problematic and insecure Windooooz.
    I have read maybe 24 - 30 Treo 700w reviews. Most have called it the best WM5 device ever.....not as good as the 650 but damn good for a first effort. Compare that with Windows 1.0 How many years did it take to develop a usable version.....all the while giving it away almost free with each copy of DOS.

    The Treo is a device that can reliably do 20 things.....try and make it do 70 things and expect conflicts and the problems that go with them. I no longer take a laptop with me on business trips unless I expect to have to write pages of data while away. I am not a person who has 20 minute conversations, I have never used an IM client (would rather stick needles in my eyes). I don't need to waste time communicating anything other than what needs to be said. I want tools not toys. I'd rather have 6 separate programs to do 6 separate things than one suite that does 10 things which includes 4 things I don't need. The Treo works and works well in that usage.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    But "buggy" device is an unfair label because these alleged bugs are only caused by overloading the device.
    Jack!

    Don't think that I am stalking you (or atleast your posts) all over these
    forums... No.

    But I think that there is a myth floating around that all software needs
    to be buggy to begin with. This myth is lapped-up by customers who
    then expect software to be buggy as a matter of fact.

    Generally, software has bugs because of carelessness on the part of the
    management who are also taken-in by the myth. Can you imagine bugs in
    your bank software or in an aircraft or in a nuclear power station? And these
    are immensely more complex compared to our cute little Treo. Yes the
    investments on these software are huge, but palm is not deficient in
    resources for development either. My guess is a Treo costs less than
    50 USD to make, but that is another post.

    - mvk
    Game over!
  19. #19  
    A very interesting post. A lot of well thought and articulated messages. I personally am one of those folks that are always looking for the latest and greatest toy. I have had T600 and T650s, several BB models most currently and unlocked 8700, and have tried virtually every PPC convergence device out there. (most recently returned the T-Mo MDA after 2 days).

    I can honestly say that I keep gravitating back to my T650. I have Snapper, Docs to Go Pro, LauncherX and Agendus Pro loaded for my day to day use. I am strictly a business user who receives approx 50-75 e-mails on a daily basis.

    My 8700 BB is quite a step up from the previous models I have owned. As an email tool it is the best. But the main reason I keep going back to the T650 is it's form factor, reliability and ease of use.

    I wish I could say the sme thing for my experience with PPC devices. If you are looking for an unfriendly form factor, a device which eats up available memory just by sitting there, and is extemely under powered/under designed, then PPC is for you. (please no bashing from the MS loyal. Just stating my personal experiences).

    Treo and BB are appealing to folks that want simplicity and need a device which has good basic day to day usability. Can I watch movies, control my TV or manage a network from my T650 or 8700 ... probably not, at least not as well as from a PPC device. I need stability and ease of use in my daily road warrior capacity. Both the T650 and the BB offer that.

    Now back to the topic, BB does one thing very well ... e-mail related activities and Outlook integration. Does not work well for viewing/editing documents, being used as a phone, etc... I believe the reason I keep going back to my T650 is due to its friendly form factor, excellent RF and overall ease of use, especially one handed. I am waiting for the new T700W GSM to become available to see if someone has finally created a succesful merge of nice form factor and stable PPC OS. I hope so. From what I have read about the 700W from Verizon there are some crippling features which were mandated by Verizon. Hopefully the unlocked version will be better and more stable than the current 1st gen 700W.

    What it really boils down to is a matter of need and a perception of what constitutes stability in a device. BB units will always be a favorite for e-mail intensive needs. Treos will always have a loyal following for folks who need a little more than tne basics. And PPC convergence devices will always attract the MS faithful that like to add a ton of programs, tweak the registries, try and get it to wash their car while serving dinner, and then hard boot it start all over and comment on how unstable it is.

    Everyone has choices and preferences, and Thank God we live in a world where we do. I personally am not brand loyal, and like to keep my options open based upon my needs. There will always exist the RIM (one M) vs Palm vs MS debate. Competition and variety is a good thing.

    Later ...
    Thanks,

    np
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex
    But I think that there is a myth floating around that all software needs to be buggy to begin with. This myth is lapped-up by customers who then expect software to be buggy as a matter of fact.
    I have dubbed this "Redmond Mentality Syndrome"
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