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  1.    #1  
    So I've been mulling over something: We all talk about wanting to preserve our investments in Palm OS software, but if Palm upgrades to Cobalt aren't we more likely to need to replace or pay for upgrades to existing software? If we get another version of Frakengarnet, as it seems we're likely to, won't we do better in getting apps to work on the new device?
  2. #2  
    Yes.

    Yes, but you'll wish you couldn't.

    Sorry for the sarcasm, but further extension of Frankengarnet is like bolting extended memory support on DOS 6 - not a pretty sight. I still believe the absence of WiFi support (even with an add in SD card) is because Frankengarnet CANNOT juggle multiple radios (cellular, wifi and bluetooth) without shutting one or the other down while the others are in use. On my Cingular 8125 I can surf PIE through WiFi while holding a conversation through a bluetooth headset. Game, set, match.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
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    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Dog Doc
    So I've been mulling over something: We all talk about wanting to preserve our investments in Palm OS software, but if Palm upgrades to Cobalt aren't we more likely to need to replace or pay for upgrades to existing software? If we get another version of Frakengarnet, as it seems we're likely to, won't we do better in getting apps to work on the new device?
    1) with PalmSource's ALP announcement, any bits of Cobalt worth saving seem to have been integrated into the MAX section

    2) replace/pay for upgrades--depends on the app, and it's coming sooner or later anyway
  4. #4  
    But Bluetooth and wi-fi exist together on their stand alone Garnet PDAs, although I'm not sure if one radio does have to be shut down. Sometimes I think they are just full of **** when they claim they can't put wi-fi on the Treo!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  5. #5  
    The lack of WiFi on the Treo is a concession to the carriers' fear of VOIP, a political restriction, not a technical one. The LifeDrive and TX both support Bluetooth and WiFi simultaneously. Garnet is quite capable of this.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kirvin
    The lack of WiFi on the Treo is a concession to the carriers' fear of VOIP, a political restriction, not a technical one. The LifeDrive and TX both support Bluetooth and WiFi simultaneously. Garnet is quite capable of this.
    I don't think so. Why does WiFi work flawlessly on my PPC 6700 on Sprints network. Are you saying that this somehow relates solely to the Palm OS?
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    But Bluetooth and wi-fi exist together on their stand alone Garnet PDAs, although I'm not sure if one radio does have to be shut down. Sometimes I think they are just full of **** when they claim they can't put wi-fi on the Treo!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kirvin
    The lack of WiFi on the Treo is a concession to the carriers' fear of VOIP, a political restriction, not a technical one. The LifeDrive and TX both support Bluetooth and WiFi simultaneously. Garnet is quite capable of this.
    LT & Jeff:

    This is a rare case where you both missed the point -

    I think it's the cellular radio in the mix that crunches Frankengarnet. WiFi and bluetooth may co-exist, but remember the first attempts by Shadowmite to add WiFi capability to the Treo 600/650. It required a RESET of the phone to get the cellular service back on. That shows me the hooks just aren't there in Frankengarnet to support multiple voice/data radios.

    Besides, if it were all a carrier issue, you wouldn't have the Apache (Sprint) or the 8125 (Cingular) units out there with WiFi. In particular, the WiFi on my 8125, defaults to WiFi data access when turned on, and switches back to GPRS/EDGE when I turn the WiFi radio off. Now as for Verizon, since they have such an early vested interest in EVDO, I could see they squashed WiFi; BUT, WiFi does work on the 700w from an SD card - the common thread --

    drum roll please ----

    they are all WM5 devices.

    Last edited by dstrauss; 02/22/2006 at 11:42 AM.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  8. #8  
    I thought you might have meant all 3 radios together, but I am still a bit suspicious of Palm's motives. Maybe you indeed can't run all 3, but looking at how they often cheap out on certain Treo features, I wonder.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    I thought you might have meant all 3 radios together, but I am still a bit suspicious of Palm's motives. Maybe you indeed can't run all 3, but looking at how they often cheap out on certain Treo features, I wonder.
    I just don't think it's the three radios that are a problem - it's cellular/wifi under the POS (at least FrankenGarnet). Remember, when Cobalt was all the talk, it was going to "multitask" and be "phone friendly" and it got strangled in the crib. It obviously can be done (witness all the WM5 devices, and even a few Win Mobile 2003 tweaks like the HP and Samsung units). For years we (ME INCLUDED) sneered at M$oft for bloatware in the handheld space, but now it's starting to pay off.

    I'm eating a lot of crow here, because anyone with a long memory (Shadowboxer's listening, I can feel it) I bashed the M$ofty crowd while PPC slowly grew up. It's just like Windows XP is a long way from Windows 386 - given enough time, memory, and storage, and Bill can whip any obstacle.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  10. #10  
    It was really WM5 that moved me too. To me, WM2003 was a bit mediocre.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Yes.

    Yes, but you'll wish you couldn't.

    Sorry for the sarcasm, but further extension of Frankengarnet is like bolting extended memory support on DOS 6 - not a pretty sight. I still believe the absence of WiFi support (even with an add in SD card) is because Frankengarnet CANNOT juggle multiple radios (cellular, wifi and bluetooth) without shutting one or the other down while the others are in use. On my Cingular 8125 I can surf PIE through WiFi while holding a conversation through a bluetooth headset. Game, set, match.
    But YOU can't spend hours agonizing on when the next, better one's gonna come out with all the stuff you want!!!

    DING!DING!DING! We HAVE a winner!!!!
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    LT & Jeff:

    This is a rare case where you both missed the point -

    I think it's the cellular radio in the mix that crunches Frankengarnet. WiFi and bluetooth may co-exist, but remember the first attempts by Shadowmite to add WiFi capability to the Treo 600/650. It required a RESET of the phone to get the cellular service back on. That shows me the hooks just aren't there in Frankengarnet to support multiple voice/data radios.

    Besides, if it were all a carrier issue, you wouldn't have the Apache (Sprint) or the 8125 (Cingular) units out there with WiFi. In particular, the WiFi on my 8125, defaults to WiFi data access when turned on, and switches back to GPRS/EDGE when I turn the WiFi radio off. Now as for Verizon, since they have such an early vested interest in EVDO, I could see they squashed WiFi; BUT, WiFi does work on the 700w from an SD card - the common thread --

    drum roll please ----

    they are all WM5 devices.

    You go to hell Strauss.

    And quit egging me on!


    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    You go to hell Strauss.

    And quit egging me on!


    Will I get to meet you in person then?
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  14. #14  
    Assume the 700P works with Power Vision only. Data usage for DUN will now be charged at $25 a month for 40MB usage.

    No more free DUN folks. Power Vision itself starts at $15 a month.
  15. #15  
    Ouch - 40 mb won't last long if you have much email. I never bought into DUN anyway - always used Snappermail (or now Pocket Outlook) for all attachments to the the Treo or 8125, then exchange attachments with the notebook. A little extra work, but far less headaches from the Sprint/Cingular police.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kirvin
    The lack of WiFi on the Treo is a concession to the carriers' fear of VOIP, a political restriction, not a technical one. The LifeDrive and TX both support Bluetooth and WiFi simultaneously. Garnet is quite capable of this.

    The latest Palm webcast basically confirms that FrankenGarnet was the problem in implementing wifi in the Treo. It's more than just "can they coexist". The issue is can you design a seamless, bugfree and automated backround radio switching functionality like those found on other devices like the WM 6700? However I concede this does not explain why Palm did not integrate wifi into the 700w, but they have generally been late to the wifi party to begin with...

    Overall, there has been NO silver lining to the whole FrankenGarnet fiasco. The mere fact we're stil using FrankenGarnet is a testament to the failure of Cobalt which was a horrendous blow to PalmSource and the entire palmos community of users etc. Now we are forced to hang on and use a very old, buggy, and unstable OS more than 3 years after it was supposed to fade into obsolencence while clinging to the hope that ALP will finally succeed where Cobalt didn't. It is an ufortunate fact today that in regards to palmOS: it is the hardware that is pushing the platform rather than the software b/c quite frankly the OS is obsolete. Thus if it wasn't for the Treo, Palmos might have already died looong ago by now...
    Last edited by Gaurav; 02/24/2006 at 11:23 PM.
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  17. #17  
    gfunk has hit the nail on the head. Frankengarnet just isn't robust enough for 2006. ALPO is too far away and each update to WM5 just strengthens it's lead. As I've said too many times, given enough time, processor, and memory, Gates knocks down most walls.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    The latest Palm webcast basically confirms that FrankenGarnet was the problem in implementing wifi in the Treo.
    Of course they're going to say that. You really think they're going to come right out and say "Well, we could put wi-fi into the Treo, but we don't want you guys making free phone calls over the internet, so we're not gonna"
    Why are ringtones always such a big issue? Don't people realize that they're obnoxious!? And why the Nintendo 'Wii'? What th-!?
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    As I've said too many times, given enough time, processor, and memory, Gates knocks down most walls.
    Haha, sorry but I couldn't help but to think of Batman with that comment...
    Why are ringtones always such a big issue? Don't people realize that they're obnoxious!? And why the Nintendo 'Wii'? What th-!?
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by ShannonElements
    Haha, sorry but I couldn't help but to think of Batman with that comment...
    Batman?????
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
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