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  1.    #1  
    ... if Palm had asked for it!

    This podcast below is from an interview with John Starkweather from MS Mobile and Embedded Division. They talk a bit about the Treo 700w, and he mentioned that they introduced 320x240 landscape for the Motorola Q just because they asked for it, and that they could have done 320x320 for Palm, but Palm did not ask for it! I suspect Palm saw it as an opportunity to save some $ on a weaker screen, and blame it on MS.

    Another interesting thing he mentioned, was that Palm approached MS soon after the Handspring split (1998?) but at that time it did not go anywhere. Its amazing what goes on behind closed doors, isn't it.

    http://x.msmobiles.com/portal/podcas...es_com_109.mp3

    This is an hour long pod cast, but interesting, due to the badgering style of the interviewer. Listen around minute 20 and minute 30 for the points I have mentioned.

    He also mentioned in passing "what makes you think the GSM Treo will be the same shape as the Treo 700w" suggesting again that the GSM Hollywood will look very different.

    This indicates there is some hope, if Palm was pressured, that future devices may be 320x320. Not this generation obviously, or even the next, but its probably gaurenteed that when the competition does 480x480, Palm will do 320x320 for WM Treo's

    Surur
  2. #2  
    I wonder if this means the 700p will be 240 X 240, also? That would suck.
  3.    #3  
    No way! and I dont mean to imply that. Im referring to future Windows Mobike devices.

    Surur
  4. #4  
    Tell that to HP and Fujitsu who also make 240X240 WM5 phones.
  5. #5  
    I tried out a Treo 700w, and the screen wasn't bad. Of course it wasn't as crisp as our Treos with 320x320 but it was a lot better than I thought it was going to look.
    Jimmie Geddes
  6. #6  
    sndtubes,
    The Palm OS version 700 will absolutely NOT be 240x240. First and foremost for platform compatibility. Heavy technical investment in Palm OS to go backwards on quality is a lose-lose proposition. 320x320 is already entrenched, so if the 700p comes as expected it will be 320x320 and not 240x240.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmie Geddes
    I tried out a Treo 700w, and the screen wasn't bad. Of course it wasn't as crisp as our Treos with 320x320 but it was a lot better than I thought it was going to look.
    Jimmie, I agree. Sure the sharper the better, but after actually handling the 700w, I was quite pleased with the screen quality. Smaller physical size compacts the pixels to a very acceptable level. Really 480x480 would be overkill on such a small screen ... I would not turn it down of course.
    Patrick Horne
  7. #7  
    That interviewer was annoying me, he was hard headed. I think Palm dropped the ball on there decision with the 700w screen and there decision to add that dumb text box which only made the today screen even more crowded.
  8. #8  
    i read somewhere....WM5 only runs in certain resolutions. 240x240, 480x480, 320x240, 640x480.
  9. #9  
    I look at it this way...

    Palm: Can we have a 320x320 screen?

    MS: Sure, but that's going to have to be introduced in the next version of our OS.

    Palm: You mean the upcoming Microsoft Windows Mobile 2006 Consumer Edition for Smartphones 6, right?

    MS: Well that's the working name, but yes.

    Palm: And that's due in the future right?

    MS: Yep.

    Palm: So we'd have to wait until the software development kit is ready for that version.

    MS: Of course.

    Palm: Rather than push everything back a year, let's get something pretty good out now. This is our first attempt at developing for this OS and if give people something close to what we have on the Treo 650 now, in Windows form, it'll allow businesses to evaluate it and get it into their budgets.

    MS: You know, that makes a lot of sense. Let's do that.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    ... if Palm had asked for it!

    This podcast below is from an interview with John Starkweather from MS Mobile and Embedded Division. They talk a bit about the Treo 700w, and he mentioned that they introduced 320x240 landscape for the Motorola Q just because they asked for it, and that they could have done 320x320 for Palm, but Palm did not ask for it! I suspect Palm saw it as an opportunity to save some $ on a weaker screen, and blame it on MS.
    Amazing....it is now Palm's fault that MS doesn't support 320 by 320 resolution. You are so biased it is not even funny.

    You don't know a thing about making design trade-offs, and it shows.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    Amazing....it is now Palm's fault that MS doesn't support 320 by 320 resolution. You are so biased it is not even funny.

    You don't know a thing about making design trade-offs, and it shows.
    Either way, they did it for Moto, so it shows its not impractical.

    Surur
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    They talk a bit about the Treo 700w, and he mentioned that they introduced 320x240 landscape for the Motorola Q just because they asked for it, and that they could have done 320x320 for Palm, but Palm did not ask for it! I suspect Palm saw it as an opportunity to save some $ on a weaker screen, and blame it on MS.
    More likely MS said, well we 'd be happy to develop it for you for the price of 1.4 gazillion dollars and after we charge you for the full development costs, we reserve the right to sell the stuff you paid for to all of our other customers.

    Another speculative scenario says that Palm wants the windows version to be technically inferior in some respects. Where Corportae IT makes the decisions, they will sell the 240 x 240 screens but where individuals who are seeking the best hardware they can lay their hands on will declare the Palm OS superior because it supports better hardware. Then again if Palm doesn't make an announcmeent soon regarding PalmSource's announcement this week....all of this may be moot.
  13. #14  
    Personally, I think that a small 320x240 res screen could have been cool, but to make a screen that small would have made the fonts in existing apps look super-tiny. 240x240 with ClearType isn't bad. It's not as good as 320x320 (pseudo 324x324 if you count the always-on border which, for many apps, is a useful page margin), though.

    FWIW, I think the comparison with the Moto Q is a bad analogy. The Q is running MS' Smartphone OS which doesn't have nearly as large of an app library as the PPC OS, so losing backward compatibility was likely less of a concern there.

    If you drop the external antenna, I disagree that a 240x320 screen makes the phone too big. The Benq p50 looks to be sized OK IMO.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  14. #15  
    Palm only chose 240X240 because that resolution is more compatible with third party WM software than 320X320 is.
  15. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Either way, they did it for Moto, so it shows its not impractical.

    Surur
    And where are the Qs now? Are they available?

    Had Palm asked for 320 by 320 resolution, chances are that the 700w would not be available now. It is all about trade-offs.
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    #17  
    Seems a bit of a strange way around for things to be done I would have thought MS would look at what hardware was around and write their software to support it. So as higher resolution screens become available they will only be usable in WM if the manufacturer specifically requests MS support them
  17. #18  
    What Sleuth said.
    Going with 320x320 would create a lot of hassle for users when they try to install third-party software.
  18. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sleuth255
    Palm only chose 240X240 because that resolution is more compatible with third party WM software than 320X320 is.
    3rd party developers are not using 320 x 320 cause there is no support for it in WM5. MS themsleves have stated that they would have provided support if Palm had asked, and presumably paid the development costs, for it.
  19. #20  
    There would have been no hassle or holdup whatsoever. This design has been in the works for YEARS. Anyone who watched the original announcement about the 700w knows that. Palm simply did NOT ask microsoft for this, nor did they desire to. Granted, maybe they didn't know they could ask. But you can't say this would have caused trouble, it wouldn't have. Microsoft would code the translation table into the operating system. No third party apps would have to care about anything other than square resolutions.
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