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  1. #41  
    Why when I looked on websites where they were selling phones from the Far East, were all the phones I saw GSM? I think I saw 3G too.
    Because far East is not a little place, Japan ha its own standard FOMA, UMTS, and others, Korea is CDMA only, China has CDMA and GSM networks and is working to get its own 3g standard, Hong Kong and other counrtier are mainly GSM.

    You can get more infos about GSM (and UMTS) here

    http://www.gsmworld.com/index.shtml

    http://www.gsacom.com

    And some infos about CDMA following the links from the qualcomm website.
  2. #42  
    I know the Original Goal of this post was a concern for Why not GSM First.
    But, There's activity here,
    so; Is it true one w/ CDMA can't use data at the same time as voice?
    Like I'm surfin and the phone won't ring?
    Or what?
    Just call me Berd.
  3. #43  
    Bigboy, I seriously cannot find one site selling CDMA phones from the Far East. Everything was GSM or 3G. I found one site that says you have to rent a phone in Korea, but it said nothing else. So where can I find info on CDMA advanced phones in the Far East?

    Thanks for the links Solutor!

    I'll be back later. But I'm still interested in learning more about the advanced CDMA.
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 02/06/2006 at 07:30 PM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4. #44  
    Like I'm surfin and the phone won't ring?
    No the phone won't ring (your call will be redirected to voicemail) even if you are not downloading any data.

    The same happen in GPRS/EDGE only when you are using the entire bandwidth, if you are browsing the phone rings, the data connection will be paused and restored on call ending.

    The available bandwidth is about 155 Kbps in CDMA, about 236 Kbps in EDGE, about 384 Kbps in UMTS, about 1.5/2.0 MBps in HSDPA/HSUPA (the next step in UMTS evolution which is starting in a couple of months here in Italy)
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Bigboy, I seriously cannot find one site selling CDMA phones from the Far East. Everything was GSM or 3G. I found one site that says you have to rent a phone in Korea, but it said nothing else. So where can I find info on CDMA advanced phones in the Far East?

    Thanks for the links Solutor!

    I'll be back later. But I'm still interested in learning more about the advanced CDMA.
    You can't find CDMA phones from the Far East because Sprint and Verizon chose to keep their systems closed rather than support a SIM-like feature. In order to get a non-approved CDMA phone on the network, you have to hack it (remember all the hacking needed to be done in order to get a Sprint T600 onto Verizon?), and 99.8% of the mobile phone users out there don't want to do that.

    It has nothing to do with technology -- it has everything to do with business models. In the US, the phone providers subsidize the cost of the phone, while in other regions, customers are more used to paying up for the full price of the phone.

    In terms of advancement -- I'm no expert, by the way -- bottom line is that CDMA uses spectrum much more efficiently than GSM, which is why "3G GSM" actually uses a CDMA air interface. The cost is the need for more processing power, which is the reason that CDMA doesn't have the same battery life (has nothing to do with signal transmission).

    My understanding, also, is that we are all throwing around the wrong terms --- GSM and CDMA aren't really the same "level" of technology. To appropriately discuss CDMA, you need to compare it to TDMA, not GSM.

    To talk GSM/GPRS/EDGE/UTMS/HSDPA, I think you compare it to cdmaOne/cdma2000-1xRTT/EVDO/EVDV.

    Someone come and correct my post before everyone realizes I'm talking out of my ****...
  6. #46  
    No, everything you said is pretty much correct (I don't know anything about the Far East CDMA stuff so you could talk out of your **** there and I wouldn't know):

    -3G GSM uses a modified CDMA air interface (Wideband-CDMA)
    -GSM is based on TDMA so, yes, comparing CDMA to GSM is like comparing CDMA to TDMA.
    -Theoretically CDMA does use spectrum more efficiently, however at very large events (eg. football games) where a lot of users are accessing the cell networks, friends on VZW are always asking to use my Cingular phone. May just be that there are a ton more VZW users that it bogs down that much. But for some reason VZW (don't know about Sprint) seems to have their networks bog down more.
    -Processing is different and may contribute to shortened battery life, but I believe if you check specs, CDMA phones do indeed require more power output on transmission. Note: I checked this a couple years ago - this may have changed recently so please correct me there.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy
    ...To talk GSM/GPRS/EDGE/UTMS/HSDPA, I think you compare it to cdmaOne/cdma2000-1xRTT/EVDO/EVDV...
    Excellent clarification.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Solutor
    The available bandwidth is about 155 Kbps in CDMA, about 236 Kbps in EDGE, about 384 Kbps in UMTS, about 1.5/2.0 MBps in HSDPA/HSUPA (the next step in UMTS evolution which is starting in a couple of months here in Italy)
    Here in US, they seem to be skipping HDSPA1.8 and moving directly to HSDPA3.6 which is in 20 cities now and was demonstrated in Las Vegas at CES last month with 2 Mbps speeds. For reference, Verizon has EVDO in 60 cities. Can't quite get a handle on Sprint's coverage but it's safe to say that it is somewhere between the 20 and 60. HSDPA1.8 and EVDO are comparable in d/l speed....HDSPA has an advantage in upload speed when carrier doesn't limit it which I expect they will do thru at least mid year. I would think Treo's agreemenets with each carrier is gonna be timed to wait till they have at least 50 markets before we see a new Treo for that carrier.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    I haven't used a CDMA phone but from what I understand it's pretty easy to swap phones on your verizon online account. As long as you own both phones.
    You can swap phones as in having your name placed on wife's account and visa versa but, to my understanding, the number is programmed into the phone. To undo, you gotta get back on phone w/ carrier and do the switchweroo again. In GSM, it's programmed into the SIM chip. Don't think Verizon would have the patience to do that for you 6 times a week like in the example below.

    So if I wanna go mountain biking on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, still keep in touch and not risk my Treo during my occassional "face plants", I can swap SIMS with her freebie-cheapie phone before and after my rides on each of those days. On CDMA probaly easier to have 2nd phone and forward calls from one to other.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy
    You can't find CDMA phones from the Far East because Sprint and Verizon chose to keep their systems closed rather than support a SIM-like feature. In order to get a non-approved CDMA phone on the network, you have to hack it (remember all the hacking needed to be done in order to get a Sprint T600 onto Verizon?), and 99.8% of the mobile phone users out there don't want to do that.

    It has nothing to do with technology -- it has everything to do with business models. In the US, the phone providers subsidize the cost of the phone, while in other regions, customers are more used to paying up for the full price of the phone.

    In terms of advancement -- I'm no expert, by the way -- bottom line is that CDMA uses spectrum much more efficiently than GSM, which is why "3G GSM" actually uses a CDMA air interface. The cost is the need for more processing power, which is the reason that CDMA doesn't have the same battery life (has nothing to do with signal transmission).
    That's too bad there are such restrictions in the US. Maybe I would change my opinion about the worldwide usage of CDMA if I could see what kind of CDMA devices were out there worldwide. As of now, GSM seems to be more openly available for worldwide purchase, even 3G phones if you're willing to pay. I look at US CDMA phones, they are blah compared to worldwide GSM and 3G phones. And they also aren't world phones. Except for the Samsung i830, that is about the only current CDMA world phone, and even then I think the "world" part is GSM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by zesta
    Along the lines of what Shadowmite said...

    GSM is ancient technology. CDMA is technically superior in most areas. The next level is W-CDMA for both, which is based on CDMA. GSM has a couple advantages, but is not a better technology. Just because more countries use it as a standard doesn't mean it is better.

    It's kinda like saying that Windows is technically superior to Linux or Mac, simply because more people use it.

    -Randy
    CDMA is theoretically superior in all areas. For example, in theory, CDMA has better power management and longer battery life. However, in almost every generation the GSM Treo has had significantly longer battery life. In theory, CDMA has better voice quality. However, in every generation, Sprint Treo users have complained about voice quality. In theory, CDMA does a better job of maintaining calls as the phone moves from cell to cell. In practice, CDMA users complain more about dropped calls.

    Perhaps CDMA is really the better technology but GSM is somewhat more mature.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny
    ........I think Cingular/T-Mo/GSM users will be laughing the loudest this December, and I'm a Sprint user.
    I hope that you are right. However, can hardly be true unless we have a GSM Treo with UTMS HSDPA. That hardly seems likely. Chicken and egg problem. T-Mo has not deployed it at all and Cingular only in a dozen markets. (There is an article on wikipedia that says that Cingular will have it in 100 markets by year end. That is about two markets a week. The Cingular web site speaks to the dozen markets they are in but is otherwise silent.) While there are PC cards to exploit it, there are no smart phones to exploit it. Like EV-DO on Verizon, it is priced for PCs not phones.
    Last edited by whmurray; 02/07/2006 at 10:08 PM.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Unfortunately, I'm aware of how behind the times the US is in terms of mobile technology advancement. I see what is offered overseas, and I get very depressed. Our unwillingness to drop CDMA is what's holding us back.
    i am a gsm person like yourself. but, because gsm is an older and cheaper technolgy is the reason that gsm is so wide spread. actually cdma is a newer technolgy than gsm and is better but many, like myself, like gsm like you have stated becasue we can get in and out of handsets with out any problem.
    Naveen

    Current:Cingular 8525 w/Faria R32

    Next Phone:
    Something from HTC because Palm sucks, so I want a Touch Pro, Touch HD, or a Treo Pro.
  14. #54  
    My question is -- if the upgrade to both CDMA and GSM is WCDMA, will we eventually be able to get in an out of headsets if we're on Sprint or Verizon? I'd love to get rid of carrier mandated requirements in phones. If they're all using the same spec, then the phone makers could truly market to those buying them and not the carriers. Carriers could still fund phones with 2-year lock-in agreements and the like, but they wouldn't be able to disable features like Verizon and others have. I know CDMA can use SIM cards, and if there's one standard, it'd be even easier to switch carriers. Take your SIM chip out, disable your phone via your old carrier, enable a new phone by putting your SIM chip in, and registering on the new network. Voila.

    Alas, pipe dreams. It's all about the $$, and that means keeping customers locked in.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder God
    i am a gsm person like yourself. but, because gsm is an older and cheaper technolgy is the reason that gsm is so wide spread. actually cdma is a newer technolgy than gsm and is better but many, like myself, like gsm like you have stated becasue we can get in and out of handsets with out any problem.
    Look at the fragmentation that is happening to the Treo product line. By year end 2007 there will be dozens of Treos. It is likely that there will 2 new ones for each carrier. The Japanese and the Koreans are in the same boat.

    The rest of the world has a huge market where every device will work on every network. Between Johannesberg and its airport there is a mall with 31 shops, all selling digital cell phones. An American would not believe the choices. One can have the phone one wants on any carrier one wants.

    However one may feel about a particular technology, there is something to be said for having only one.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    While there are PC cards to exploit it, there are no smart phones to exploit it. Like EV-DO on Verizon, it is priced for PCs not phones.
    Everybody saving announcements for Feb 13....World GSM conference in Barcelona Italy. Check TheRegister (mobile/PDA section) and some other mobile sites thay have Samsung and 2 other HDSPA phones pictured.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Everybody saving announcements for Feb 13....World GSM conference in Barcelona Italy. Check TheRegister (mobile/PDA section) and some other mobile sites thay have Samsung and 2 other HDSPA phones pictured.
    Hate to be a nitpicker, but Barcelona is located in Spain.
    Philips PR95 (NMT) > Nokia 232 (AMPS) > Nokia 5190 & 5110 (GSM) > Ericsson R520m (unlocked GSM) > Treo 650 (unlocked GSM) on Fido
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by duckman
    Hate to be a nitpicker, but Barcelona is located in Spain.
    Duh....have to go back to the original article.....was talk about several "releases" coming up in shows in Barcelona and Italy and I "mind merged" them into same event.

    "The 3GSM World Congress 2006 takes place this year in Barcelona, Spain from February 13 to 16 "
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder God
    i am a gsm person like yourself. but, because gsm is an older and cheaper technolgy is the reason that gsm is so wide spread. actually cdma is a newer technolgy than gsm and is better but many, like myself, like gsm like you have stated becasue we can get in and out of handsets with out any problem.
    I'm still confused as to why CDMA is better.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by ricochet
    My question is -- if the upgrade to both CDMA and GSM is WCDMA, will we eventually be able to get in an out of headsets if we're on Sprint or Verizon? I'd love to get rid of carrier mandated requirements in phones. If they're all using the same spec, then the phone makers could truly market to those buying them and not the carriers. Carriers could still fund phones with 2-year lock-in agreements and the like, but they wouldn't be able to disable features like Verizon and others have. I know CDMA can use SIM cards, and if there's one standard, it'd be even easier to switch carriers. Take your SIM chip out, disable your phone via your old carrier, enable a new phone by putting your SIM chip in, and registering on the new network. Voila.

    Alas, pipe dreams. It's all about the $$, and that means keeping customers locked in.
    I agree!! I think it will happen, but it will be a LONG time coming.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
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