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  1. #201  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    There may be a fundamental misunderstanding here between triangulation and GPS. Triangulation uses the difference between the strength of the signal from the phone at several towers for the carrier to compute where the phone is. GPS uses the timing of signals from three or more satellites for the receiver to compute where it is.

    It is triangulation, not GPS, that the carriers are using to comply with the law enforcement mandate to be able to tell them where a cell-based 911 call originates from.
    I think we are going to have to be both right on this. Looking at http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/archi...p/t-11166.html, it seems that AGPS does indeed use triangulation as well as real satellites (yes it is GPS). If it was just triangulation they couldn't use the "S"atellite in AGPS, it would be something like CT (Cell Triangulation).

    And while very few phones currently have real GPS, a subset of Nextel ones do. They use no cell tower triangulation and only work when they can get a clear view of the outside. See the Accutracking site that I mentioned previously for model numbers.
  2. #202  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Except in the rare but important cases where one is trapped in a mine, collapsed building, or avalanche.
    I wonder how many cell towers you can "triangulate" if you are in an avalance or mine. I would think you'd be lucky to hit one tower and get service. I don't know if that can be used to "triangulate". In a collapsed building, the margin of error in triangulation is probably 50 meters or so, so I guess it would just tell authorities that you are in the wreckage, but probably not where in the wreckage. Also in those rare cases, it's probably doubly rare that no one is able to place a call, though I suppose it could happen.
  3. #203  
    The thought I had put behind wanting the GPS receiver to be satellite based instead of carrier based would be that it would be more likely to have an API that a developer could access while creating an application. In the case of TomTom, it would be great if you could just tell the app to use the Treoís built in receiver. I have doubts that a carrier based solution would allow such an interface, because if youíre using TomTom, youíre not subscribing to their monthly service.

    I also seem to recall that the satellite based GPS is much more accurate than the tower-based solution. It may be accurate enough for driving on established roads, but I think the hikers and geocachers out there want something a bit more accurate. Perhaps the technology has become accurate enough now where there isnít much of a gap anymore.

    Are there proper APIís for the current chip in the Treo? If so, I havenít seen a developer want to take on the cost and effort of creating an application to use it because thereís no money in it. A generic receiver would ideally just show up as a generic GPS device to existing software.

    Most wonít argue that including a satellite based GPS receiver can be done. Like Scott points out, itís in an iPaq. But the iPaq isnít subsidized by carriers, and therefore isnít subject to the same rules that a carrier may enforce on a smartphone manufacturer. The carriers have a big part in deciding what goes into these phones.
  4. #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    If history is to be my guide, I will buy whatever they produce at whatever price.

    If they build it, you will come?
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  5. #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I wonder how many cell towers you can "triangulate" if you are in an avalance or mine. I would think you'd be lucky to hit one tower and get service. I don't know if that can be used to "triangulate". In a collapsed building, the margin of error in triangulation is probably 50 meters or so, so I guess it would just tell authorities that you are in the wreckage, but probably not where in the wreckage. Also in those rare cases, it's probably doubly rare that no one is able to place a call, though I suppose it could happen.
    In such a situation, one takes what one can get. Radio direction finders can be used to find a phone if one can get close to it.
  6. #206  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    If they build it, you will come?
    Have so far.
  7. #207  
    Quote Originally Posted by ricochet

    His second post (the part on the enfora sled) didn't make sense either. He said he SAW the phone connect via wifi, but he didn't say the phone had the sled on it. So what did he see? If he saw a sled, or an SD card that had a piece sticking out of the top, he would've said so.
    You need to go back and read that post more carefully. He said he was asking the assistant about Wi-Fi solutions for the 650. Separate issue completely from the 800.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  8. #208  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I think we are going to have to be both right on this. Looking at http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/archi...p/t-11166.html, it seems that AGPS does indeed use triangulation as well as real satellites (yes it is GPS). If it was just triangulation they couldn't use the "S"atellite in AGPS, it would be something like CT (Cell Triangulation).

    And while very few phones currently have real GPS, a subset of Nextel ones do. They use no cell tower triangulation and only work when they can get a clear view of the outside. See the Accutracking site that I mentioned previously for model numbers.
    Interesting. It will be interesting to see the applications emerge.
  9. #209  
    Thanks whmurray, I missed the 650 reference.

    I'm still calling BS.
  10. #210  
    As far as the Slinky thing and him and me are cool with the joking thing, but you got to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and it seems he is getting all the facts straight before posting.

    Maybe he stuck his neck out a little with the title of the thread, but unlike some of us me included he is at least putting in the effort to get some info out of Palm, as it seems the whole world wants to know the Palm OS future, I for one stop purchasing apps as I may have no other choice but to go to WM.. for EVDO.

    On another note there is chatter of Microsoft buying out Palm as there lead stock holder doesn't see them being able compete in the future.
  11. DHart's Avatar
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    #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by vikingjunior
    On another note there is chatter of Microsoft buying out Palm as there lead stock holder doesn't see them being able compete in the future.
    Actually vkjr, it was Apple. And I don't think this has to do with whether he thinks they will be able to compete. I think it has to do with a very large stockholder wanting to make a very large amount of money on the sale. See Kirk Kerkorian and Chrysler.
  12. #212  
    I've got no problems with someone getting all of their facts straight before posting. I think there are two parts to this -- one, just answer every question about the phone he did see, and two, try to find out more info from palm, the guy who showed him the phone and corporate contacts.

    We don't need him to investigate every possible angle on the second before he does the first. It's laudable he's working hard at getting info, but if fails, he fails -- we're just asking him to tell us what he does know -- and that's primarily info on the phone he saw in the lobby.

    I did see the chatter about the largest stockholder sending a letter to the board, asking themt o sell while the gettin's good. The letter mentioned a bunch of companies that might be interested -- not just Microsoft. If I recall correctly, RIM, Dell and Apple were mentioned as possible companies to pitch to.

    I've thought (I know others have as well) that Apple would make the most sense. It would give them the dominant smart phone in the US, and they could slam a BSD OS on there to give the platform legs into the future. They could make it work only with universal binaries, so developers would know their apps would work on lots of places moving forward... who knows. I doubt that it'll happen tho. Microsoft doesn't make a phone (that I'm aware of) -- only the software, so I'm not sure they want to compete in that arena.

    I'm calling BS b/c I don't think anyone who got a very up-close and personal demo of the new phone would have any problems doing a Q & A session. Just on what he saw and was told _on that day_. Other facts will come out as we go on. I'm not asking him to go all James Bond and find out for us. I think any of us would be on here, answering every question thrown out if we'd seen it. B/c it was a casual run-in, there's no NDA to run afoul of or anything.

    Stop making excuses for his reticence and ask for answers! If he doesn't want to do that, then he shouldn't have posted. He knew he'd get a ton of questions with that lead in, so I'm questioning the whole set up.
  13. cardio's Avatar
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    #213  
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=106268

    He says he has a 700P in his hands as we type. Is this one and the same device?
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  14. #214  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=106268

    He says he has a 700P in his hands as we type. Is this one and the same device?
    Goodbye 800P thread!!
  15. #215  
    Treomistress:
    Didn't you just post above that we ought to believe slinky because he SAW one?
  16. #216  
    In slinky's defense he might of saw a 800P which the part he had wrong was EVDO, it may be for the European market.
  17. #217  
    Laterhosen!!
  18. #218  
    Quote Originally Posted by vikingjunior
    In slinky's defense he might of saw a 800P which the part he had wrong was EVDO, it may be for the European market.
    I believe Slinky saw an 800 as well. I think that just b/c Merlyn doesn't have pics doesn't mean he full of bs. Just as Slinky.
  19. #219  
    I don't care about who is lying about what......it would seem to me if I had a 700x/750x/800x in my hand, the first thing I would do is snap a couple of pictures and post them on the forum......sounds pretty logical to me......
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  20. cue79's Avatar
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    #220  
    Hey - they said they are releasing 4 models this year right? W is one, 700p could be two, 800p could be three / four? No way to know.... Time will tell...
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