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  1.    #1  
    All of us geeks have been spending so much time in these forums over the last week or two talking about which is better, the 650 or the 700w, on this feature or that. The general consensus is that there's no general consensus, but the two are overall quite equivalent with the 700w winning out on some updated features, the WM5 OS (for those who prefer it), and some of the WM5 developer momentum, and the 650 (thanks to the underlying Palm OS)offering several efficiency gains.

    But I'm seeing very little talk about overall *value*. And that's where we demonstrate here that so many of us are a bunch of geeks / early-adopters.

    So as someone who is perhaps a bit more in tune with the average consumer than most, let me point out a significant advantage that the 650 has over the 700w right now: Price. You needn't look farther than the treocentral home page to see that you can currently get a 650 for as little as $99. I believe that the best price that a 700w can be had for right now is $399.

    When you consider some of the mainstream reviews (and user reviews here) suggesting that the 700w isn't out-and-out superior to the 650 in many respects, the price factor gives the 650 a significant advantage.

    But aside from the battle of WM5 vs Palm OS, let's take a step back and just think about this for a moment: Average people across the US (if not even farther out) who are non-techies might be picking up the 650 right now simply because of its overall value factor. MP3, videos (yes, some work required), tons of add-on software (including games), web, email, thumbboard, etc. all for $100 (don't get me started on 2-year contracts, though - ).

    I wasn't an early adopter of the Treo 300. I kept close tabs on it and wanted one, but it wasn't until the price got to around $250 (if memory serves) and Sprint was offering affordable unlimited data that I jumped on it.

    So what is the purpose of this post? I'm not exactly sure, but I think I have at least a couple of points I'm trying to make...
    1) While Palm may be looking to phase out the 650, the fact that it's now affordable makes it a potential mass-consumer item. If they can afford to keep selling these (or a 700p which may end up being about the same anyway) at that pricepoint, they could make the Treo (or at least the Palm OS Treo) a mass consumer item and household name. That's a huge deal which they shouldn't minimize the value of.
    2) Related to #1 above...Development support (certainly big-developer support) of the Palm OS seems to be waning. Opera, Skype, Sirius, etc. seem to be supporting WM and ignoring the Palm OS. If a 650 or 700p (or some other new Palm OS Treo model) can be sold for $100 and the 700w cannot, then this could/should cause these types of development houses to change their minds. Sure, Garnet is old, but who cares? Companies are still making new (and high quality) games for the Game Boy Advanced. Developers, by and large, don't make their decisions about which platforms to support based on how current it is, they do it based on the size of the market of active users. So this is a perception issue. Palm OS is perceived dead, but Palm (the hardware company who now owns the Palm name) has a lot to gain by changing that perception in the development community if they can sell 650/700p's for less than 700w's.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  2. #2  
    Opera Mini works on the 650
    Palm III > HS Visor > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 750 > Treo Pro > PrePlus GSM

    "95% of all software issues are due to USER ERROR."
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    1) While Palm may be looking to phase out the 650, the fact that it's now affordable makes it a potential mass-consumer item. If they can afford to keep selling these (or a 700p which may end up being about the same anyway) at that pricepoint, they could make the Treo (or at least the Palm OS Treo) a mass consumer item and household name. That's a huge deal which they shouldn't minimize the value of.
    Scott, I think that is what Palm plans to do with the rumored "Lowrider" Treo which is supposed to be a new lower end Treo model. I agree though that going forward the next several months, the 650 is still a great bargain for those who want a palmos alternative...
    2) Related to #1 above...Development support (certainly big-developer support) of the Palm OS seems to be waning. Opera, Skype, Sirius, etc. seem to be supporting WM and ignoring the Palm OS. If a 650 or 700p (or some other new Palm OS Treo model) can be sold for $100 and the 700w cannot, then this could/should cause these types of development houses to change their minds. Sure, Garnet is old, but who cares? Companies are still making new (and high quality) games for the Game Boy Advanced. Developers, by and large, don't make their decisions about which platforms to support based on how current it is, they do it based on the size of the market of active users. So this is a perception issue. Palm OS is perceived dead, but Palm (the hardware company who now owns the Palm name) has a lot to gain by changing that perception in the development community if they can sell 650/700p's for less than 700w's.
    Add streaming wma/wmv to the list! Slingbox has a PPC client now that supports stream vids to your WM device. I wish there was a palmos client for this. (However I do realize that Kinoma EX does support RTSP via 3gp, but there still aren't that many sites that support this format yet).

    Also, you can get a Opera java midlet that works on the Treo now...
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  4. #4  
    What you say about the value of the 650 is probably true, but it doesn't take into fact perceived factors:

    1. What is the perceived value? Nobody wants to buy something that will be out of date soon.

    2. How much money is Palm making? The sales might be coming down to clear inventory, but that doesn't mean that Palm is still making any significant profit from each sale. They may still need to come out with a "lowrider" treo that uses cheaper components.
  5. swagner's Avatar
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    #5  
    Sorry aristarchus, I have to disagrre with you. Check out ebay. Treo 600's, audiovox 6600's, Pentium 3 laptops, 1st gen tablet pc's, etc are selling well on ebay. They are at a good pricepoint compared to the latest and greatest and still accomplish their designed tasks well. Consumers will not spend more if they feel they do not need more. They want the most for their $ and right now the $650 does that much more than the 700w.
  6. #6  
    I just got $200 for a Treo 600, not bad at all considering how old it is.....Treo 650 are still going strong on ebay - usually $350+
    1 | 2
  7. #7  
    Does the Treo 700w do 4 times more than the 650? Very unlikely. Does it do $300 worth more? Very possible!

    This of course varies from person to person, and we have seen a few threads from people for whom the Treo 650 is much too much, and they switch to a Razr or a Blackberry. For the average person the 700w may very well be overkill, and not worth it, but for a business the push e-mail (when it comes in a few months), remote wipe, .Net CF, ability to lock down the device and more open environment (more WM vendors to choose from) will definitely be worth $300 extra.

    For a regular user it may not be worth $300 extra, but it may be worth $150 extra?

    Surur
  8. #8  
    The Palm tweaks to WM5 are great, along with the EVDO radio for those who can get it. That's about it IMO. It's enough for some, but not enough to get me to leave GSM, sign another contract for a phone I can't use when I travel overseas, pay double my cell plan to get data, go lower on screen resolution and have about the same memory as the 650; and all for $400+ depending on what you do with your contract.

    Maybe when the unlocked GSM version comes out and some ROM updates, then we'll see. But for now I'm using another WM5 device and will be getting the WM5 smartphone of another maker.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    The Palm tweaks to WM5 are great, along with the EVDO radio for those who can get it. That's about it IMO. It's enough for some, but not enough to get me to leave GSM, sign another contract for a phone I can't use when I travel overseas, pay double my cell plan to get data, go lower on screen resolution and have about the same memory as the 650; and all for $400+ depending on what you do with your contract.

    Maybe when the unlocked GSM version comes out and some ROM updates, then we'll see. But for now I'm using another WM5 device and will be getting the WM5 smartphone of another maker.
    EVDO, 1.2 BT and the big one for me WM Streaming, you would be surprised at how much WM streaming is available. Being a big sports fan this feature will come in handy to stream games without having to get XM or Sirius which dividens Sports content.

    Still not enough for me to switch to Verizon but enough to make me be patient for it to come to Sprint...that is.... if there is little hope for Palm OS and EVDO.
  10. #10  
    Does streaming slow down or hinder other functions? Can you get calls and email while streaming?

    Oh yeah, I forgot BT 1.2. But I am still waiting to look at the GSM model after a ROM correction. And we all know the Treo always needs 1 or 2.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!

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