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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter-BKK
    Mr Otter Emperor,

    And, I don't subscribe to the "blame it on third party apps" argument. Since the beginning, third party apps have been one of the major strengths of the Palm products. The few third party apps that I use are from reliable
    Palm software vendors. All of these apps have been specifically updated for the Treo 650. All of them work reliably on other Palm handhelds.
    What are these 3rd party apps ? Are the threads here on the forum that peeps are reporting problems with them ? Palm's current OS uses the VFS file system. The older ones didn't and vendors had to do a major upgrade to make their programs work with the new VFS. Some took their time and got it right, others rushed something out the door before it was ready. Other stried to jam too many features in that they were overiding the capabilities of the OS.

    When WinXP SP2 came out it "broke" 200-300 programs upon being installed. That I gotta blame on MS as it was a patch not a new release. But I wouldn't blame MS if a NT4 program didn't work on WinXP. I also wouldn't blame Palm if Versamail worked but the user's alternate choice of a mail program didn't work.

    I alo wouldn't blame Palm if people didn't "ease" into features usage as defned in their owner's manual. Many people transferred their 600 setup into 650's bad idea. Many people loaded 26 programs 1st day, bad idea. And when they did have a screwup from a known bad program that has since been patched, if they didn't use Uninstall manager or do a hard rset, I can't blame Palm for the interference caused by old files conflicting with new ones.

    I remember a period of about 10 years where Suburu won FD Powers Award for having the "most satisfied" customers. Was that because Suburi made the best car in the world ? Was it the most defect free car in the world ? Or is it due to the fact that the Suburu purchaser just isn't expecting that much ?

    I had to believe then that the guy buying a $60k Porsche is gonna be a bot more discerning than a $13k Suburu which is only highlighted by the fact that with both the Porsche and the Treo....

    1. The guy probably had to wait longer than he wanted to for it and
    2. The guy probably spent more than he wanted to on it but he just had to have it.

    Tho happy that he's now got his toy, he has a bit of frustration built up already and is gonna start right on the salesman for the visible grease on the door hinges and the leaf that was on the passenger floor. Demanding users buy Treos.
  2.    #22  
    If it helps the discussion, here is a list of the 3rd party apps currently installed on my Treo 650:

    - ZLauncher
    - SnapperMail (because VersaMail is too buggy)
    - eReader Pro (made by Palm)
    - Acrobat Reader
    - Pocket Chess

    All of these are reputable, reliable apps that are well-supported and kept up-to-date with Palm OS changes. None of these apps ever give me any problems.

    The problems that I have experienced on my Treo 650 are:

    - Freeze (Treo is stuck and the battery must be removed to get it going again)
    - Extreme Slow Down (any action takes 1 or 2 minutes (e.g. to move from one
    screen to another) and requires a soft reset to fix.)
    - Reset at the end of HotSync.

    These problems are all random and intermittent. Sometimes it wont happen for days or even weeks. I can not see any common element to the incidents.

    I am quite sure that the problems are not caused by the 3rd party apps. The freeze problem seems to more related to the Phone functionality.

    A colleague has a Treo 650 with nothing on the phone that was not pre-installed. No 3rd party apps at all. And yet, the freeze and slowdown problem occurs on her phone too.

    I would love to get a fix that makes this phone more reliable. If not, it has to go. I am totally reliant on this phone for all my communications. If it stops working occasionally, especially if I don't know when it has happened, then it can cost me a lot of money in lost business opportunities.

    I love the functionality of the Treo 650, I just need it to be more reliable.

    Regards
    Peter
    http://www.peterwalker.com
  3. #23  
    IMHO, if you think you have lost business, might be time to get another phone. No matter how much you love the Treo.

    Palm tech support couldn't help at all, though? Just don't tell them you have 3rd party software, I've heard they use that as an excuse not to do anything.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4.    #24  
    Unfortunately Palm don't think that Thailand is important enough to provide us with any kind of technical support. There is a support unit in Singapore but they wont help anyone from Thailand, especially if you bought the Treo in Hong Kong...
    http://www.peterwalker.com
  5. #25  
    An unlocked Treo(sounds like that's what you have) is Palm's responsibilty period. How did they justify getting around that? Palm is Palm, no matter where you bought it. Lots of people buy phones in HK, does that really make the warranty invalid? If you can register the phone with a valid serial number, you should be able to get tech support.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter-BKK
    I am quite sure that the problems are not caused by the 3rd party apps. The freeze problem seems to more related to the Phone functionality
    What I would do then is this:

    1. Get BackupBuddyVFSPro or an equivalent if you don't have already.
    2. Backup to the Card
    3. Upgrade to latest ROM and Hard Reset...if done alreday, do again.
    4. Play with the phone for a week looking for the problems you've experienced.
    5. Bring back to store where you bought and say "I can't live with these problems, make them go away".
    6. If the problems are intermittent and you acan't duplicate, I'd ask the salesperson to swap SIM cards with me and let him use the phone for a few days.

    Of course if after setup 4 problems go away maybe an install went awry or maybe some leftover junk was from some long gone app was causing the problem.
  7. #27  
    Of all smartphone makers, palm is still the best.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    An unlocked Treo(sounds like that's what you have) is Palm's responsibilty period. How did they justify getting around that? Palm is Palm, no matter where you bought it. Lots of people buy phones in HK, does that really make the warranty invalid? If you can register the phone with a valid serial number, you should be able to get tech support.

    Not necessarily - some manufacturers have distribution agreements that limits warranty support only to products purchased in the distributor's area; so if you buy a Palm in country A and take it to B the distributor in B has no obligation to support it.

    You see that a lot with cameras - many gray market goods have no warranty support even though they are genuine and often no different from one purchased in the local market.

    Sometimes, Palm (or any manufacturer) is not Palm around the world - they are subsidiaries or independent importers who don't get any of the money from the sale of a gray market good and thus don't want to bear the cost of warranty support; or there may be subtle but important differences between devices that cause problems if they are used outside the original market.
  9. #29  
    Thanks. I thought if the serial number is valid, they'd know it's theirs and at least offer phone support. Or even if you have to send the unit in for a paid repair. I'm surprised they won't service all their products sold.

    If he had bought directly from them regardless of where he is, would that be different?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  10.    #30  
    Although my ultimatum to Palm still stands, after a whole week with only one inconsequential freeze only one mildly annoying reset, I am feeling a bit better about my Treo 650.

    You know what I would like?

    I would like Palm to announce the Treo 6xx. Here is what it would have:

    - Exactly the same as the Treo 650
    + at least double the RAM
    + WiFi
    + More reliable OS (crash protection from bad apps)
    + More reliable chip (stop the freezing / slowdown problem).

    I would buy one.

    Regards
    Peter
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Thanks. I thought if the serial number is valid, they'd know it's theirs and at least offer phone support. Or even if you have to send the unit in for a paid repair. I'm surprised they won't service all their products sold.

    If he had bought directly from them regardless of where he is, would that be different?
    Probably. Personally, if they sell direct to you then they should honor the warranty; especially since they should have an agreement in place on how that is handled if there is a local distributor.

    I'm surprised they didn't offer paid phone support.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter-BKK
    You know what I would like?

    I would like Palm to announce the Treo 6xx. Here is what it would have:

    - Exactly the same as the Treo 650
    + at least double the RAM
    + WiFi
    + More reliable OS (crash protection from bad apps)
    + More reliable chip (stop the freezing / slowdown problem).

    I would buy one.

    Regards
    Peter
    I like to add in high speed data - that's all that has stopped me from dumping my 700w.
  13. #33  
    the keys to a stable phone are -

    1. buy a new treo only after 3-6 months of introduction and/or 1-2 rom upgrades. give them a chance to work out the bugs.
    2. buy from a reputable carrier - ie verizon.
    3. do a fresh clean initial uninstall then install with the CD that came with the phone. don't just sync it over with old software.
    4. always leave at least 1-2 MB RAM free.
    5. don't install any hacky software.

    if you do the above, your phone will be stable.
  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko
    the keys to a stable phone are -

    1. buy a new treo only after 3-6 months of introduction and/or 1-2 rom upgrades. give them a chance to work out the bugs.
    2. buy from a reputable carrier - ie verizon.
    3. do a fresh clean initial uninstall then install with the CD that came with the phone. don't just sync it over with old software.
    4. always leave at least 1-2 MB RAM free.
    5. don't install any hacky software.

    if you do the above, your phone will be stable.
    I followed all your rules except point 1 and 2.

    1. I bought in Feb 2005 but I have installed the only rom upgrade
    2. We do not buy phones from carriers here in Asia, it is all unlocked GSM

    I don't think any of the software that I have installed could be called "hacky". They are all quality apps made by committed developers. In any case, without them, the Treo would certainly fall below the "worth the price and the hassles" threshold.

    I have a colleague who did exactly what you suggest, all 5 points. No 3rd party apps. And her phone freezes occasionally too.

    Regards
    Peter
    http://www.peterwalker.com
  15. #35  
    I have exactly the same issues as Peter above. I only have Butler, PTunes and Volume Care.

    I still wonder if the 3rd party programs are responsible and give Palm the benefit of the doubt.
    ~* Peace
  16.    #36  
    It seems like the freezing issue is widespread:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...2&page=3&pp=40
    http://www.peterwalker.com
  17. #37  
    Do you have a trusted friend in a Palm distribution area, like jcoffey said? If so, maybe have them try to get support for you by claiming the phone is theirs.

    I still cannot believe Palm will not service all their unlocked phones(not even offering paid support ), they are technically the only ones who can.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  18.    #38  
    I asked Palm for support a few months back. They told me to take it back to the retailer where I bought and ask them to organize a replacement. Since then, I have not been back to Hong Kong so this has not been possible.

    In any case, reading some of the other threads in the Treo 650 forum, replacing the handset is not the solution. The freezes happen with the replacements too.

    One hope is that the problem is in the firmware. Maybe Palm will release a new firmware upgrade for the unlocked GSM Palm and that will fix the problems.

    But, they better get it out before that SE P990 is released or I am going shopping...

    Regards
    Peter
  19. #39  
    Y'know, I tried to get people to hold Palm responsible for making the Treo 650 actually work as it should out of the box, and I was loudly boo'ed off the stage. I haven't posted much since early 2005.

    I was pecking away at my Sprint/Audiovox ppc6600 the other day. A friend came up to me and asked what I was using, and I did a quick demo for him. He shook his head and said, "gee, I've had lots of freezing problems with my Treo 650, but I didn't think there was anything else like it out there...."
    http://www.doctordalai.com
  20.    #40  
    A follow up on my "ultimatum" to Palm:

    Seems like they knew about the problems many users were having with freezes, crashes and slow-downs. Two weeks ago, I installed the new firmware / software upgrade (1.17/1.20 LAP). Since then, the phone has worked perfectly (touch wood).

    Now, it is too early to say that it is fault-free as some of the problems did not manifest themselves very often. But, if it continues on this trajectory, it may be that Palm has pulled me back from the brink.

    Regards
    Peter
    http://www.peterwalker.com
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