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  1. #21  
    What about the Japanese company that bought Palm OS?

    WHat happens to all the apps. I have on my Treo, and what happens to all the software developers working on apps. for Palm OS?

    I don't think Palm OS is going away, but rather might just get amalgamated into some other 'shell'.

    I HATE Wondoze mobile. What a joke.

    Greg
  2. #22  
    After just switching from the Windoze Mobile OS Devices I can only say that if the Palm OS is obsolete I'm happy to stay with it. Having owned most of the HTC (the company that makes the XDA, MDA and i-mate devices) devices I can honestly say that the stability of this "obsolete" OS is a thousand times better than ANY WM2003/WM5 device, I suggest that you visit the forums at www.clubimate.com for an idea of the users of that OS have to say.

    Casiopedia=>Handspring Visor Delux + Addon Phone=>iPaq 3870 + GSM/GPRS=>Qtek 1010=>i-mate Phone Edition=>i-mate PDA2K=>i-mate SP3i=>Treo 650
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman!
    Yes, the 650 is obsolete. Fortunately Microsoft is stepping up to the plate. Beginning Q2 '06, all Treo 650 owners will be getting a free update. Rather than bother with Windows Mobile, they are giving us the whole enchilada: Vista.

    Rumor has it that they first had trouble fitting it into the rather small memory space of the Treo. But after removing a few wizards here and there, a help file or two, and inappropriate device drivers, they ended up with room to spare!

    Thank you Microsoft for bringing clarity to our world!

    --
    Mike
    I want Vista, unfortunately it is a mess right now with no release in sight!
  4. #24  
    Having owned and depended on both OS in major road warrior situations for extended times, I think stability is a non issue as both OS had to reset with about the same frequency. Most of the time I see rebooting issues on either side of the fence, 85% had to do with 3rd party apps not playing nicely.

    The big thing that I see against Palm OS is that they seem to be riding on their past success instead of keeping up with what really is available now. There is no doubt that Palm is more simplistic to use, but it is also more simplistic in features when compared to WM05 (or even WM03) as well.

    When I jumped ship and sold my Treo and purchased my PPC-6600 this time last year, I was kind of loner here on TC.......but have you noticed how many TC owners in the last 3 months alone have now purchased a WM device, i.e. the PPC-6700 for example? These stats alone should be a wake up call that Palm has to continue to build for the future and not coast on the past.

    When I look for a convergence device I look at which phone has the most power to best meet the demands of my job, both physically (with memory, WIFI, EVDO, etc...) and OS (true multi tasking, device drivers, superior memory management, etc...). The one that offers the most power to meet the demands of my job wins.....even if I have to tap the screen for two extra steps for a feature that Palm can't even do in the first place.

    In spite of how much I love Palm (both software and hardware), they are currently behind the times and need to catch up. Again, as I have said several times over, no matter if you are talking about Palm OS or the Palm physical devices, their worst enemy sadly seems to be themselves.

    I have no loyalty to any OS or to any device and have plenty of software on both platforms to make is a non issue switching back and forth. I would love to own another Palm device, but even taking rumored upcoming releases into account and only comparing them to what is currently available right now (let alone what is coming this Spring) on the PPC side, I just don't see it happening without some additional nice surprises.

    EDIT: and BTW.....ECLEM!!! welcome to TC!!!!!! I think it was a great first post to start a conversation going!
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 12/24/2005 at 08:19 AM.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    When I jumped ship and sold my Treo and purchased my PPC-6600 this time last year, I was kind of loner here on TC.......but have you noticed how many TC owners in the last 3 months alone have now purchased a WM device, i.e. the PPC-6700 for example? These stats alone should be a wake up call that Palm has to continue to build for the future and not coast on the past.
    With all due respect those aren't actually stats; just individual anecdotal observation. Two out of the three posts above yours don't jive with that conclusion; nor do the reports of people moving from a PPC-6700 back to a Treo. I'm not arguing the point, as those aren't true stats either. True stats would clearly show the number of Treo's that have been sold compared to PPC Phones, et al. (Not a study on PDA sales, as Palm seems to be clearly targeting the smart phone arena now--and many PDA analyst reports ignore these.)

    Based on the recently leaked investor's report, Palm doesn't even consider MS a primary competitor: they think Blackberry is. And no wonder, since Palm is a MS licensee.

    And IMO it's quite a feat that in less than a month there will be WM Treo 700s on the market. I'd call that forward-thinking behavior on Palm's part. It certainly has the PPC camp in a flurry. And there will be another Palm OS Treo too (doesn't mean it will be the last). I'd call that hedging your bets. How many companies can claim they have the same device in both Palm OS and WM flavors?

    The one that offers the most power to meet the demands of my job wins.....even if I have to tap the screen for two extra steps for a feature that Palm can't even do in the first place.
    I suppose it depends on what you're trying to accomplish, and if you're willing to sacrifice those extra steps for simple tasks too. I, personally, don't want to use the stylus--and rarely do.

    I can do just about anything I can do with my iPaq on my Treo 650--sometimes more (sans phone stuff on the iPaq). For me that involves email, PIM stuff, light Web usage (in addition to Avantgo and Handmark Express), music--including Internet streams via Pocket Tunes, video (a few TV shows from my HTPC), Usenet, viewing the occasional PDF, viewing and/or editing Word and Excel files, the Terminal Server client, a database app, and of course a few choice games.

    The area where Palm OS really needs to catch up is in multi-tasking (e.g., the ability to leave Blazer running, retrieving a lengthy a Web page, while I enter a new contact). But I can't say this is something that ruins my day.

    For the record, I've used both Palm and WinCe devices since they each debuted. Each has their pros and cons. Sometimes I swap between platforms. But one thing I don't think I'll be going back to, is carrying a separate phone and PDA. Those days, for me, are over. So if forced with going with two devices or a WM PDA Phone, I'd go with the PDA Phone easily (and I also want a real keyboard of some sort, so a non-touchscreen, numeric keypad-only "smart" phone is not for me).


    --
    Mike
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    #26  
    I just recently went back to Treo 650s from a KJAM on TMo and a Samsung i730 on VZ because of two reasons: (1) I am a Mac user and trying to cope with a Windows PC for sync support was an exercise in frustration and (2) the heavy dependence on the stylus in both the WM OS and third party apps was not something I wanted to live with.

    Both of my PPCs were very good, stable devices once I got the right set of apps installed and I did appreciate some of the advanced features over Palm OS. I really enjoyed using them until it was time to sync or pull out the stylus for simple single operations.

    With the Palm 700w and 6700 coming out it appears that maybe the VZ Mac user will fall even more behind. That is what truly worries me! And yes I have tried both Missing Sync and Pocket Mac - not there yet for reliable use IMHO.

    Maybe Apple will put a phone in an iPod or something like that or maybe somebody will do a really nice job on a sync app for Macs and Pocket PCs. I actually wonder why someone doesn't just build a separate sync app for the PPC with a Mac OS X support app and trash ActiveSync rather than follow the Missing Sync approach of trying to interface with ActiveSync. That has got to be frustrating trying to deal with MS and AS craziness.

    Frank
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by fmcgirt
    I just recently went back to Treo 650s from a KJAM on TMo and a Samsung i730 on VZ because of two reasons: (1) I am a Mac user and trying to cope with a Windows PC for sync support was an exercise in frustration and
    Good point with the MAC. I think MS simply is willing to sacrifice an possible PPC customers rather than support MAC. They just anounced that MS is going to trash it's MAC version of Internet Explorer. Now that MAC has become a more viable competitor again, MS is not interested in supporting it.....at least unless it comes the point again that MAC might fall and wipe out MS's claim to no competitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by fmcgirt
    (2) the heavy dependence on the stylus in both the WM OS and third party apps was not something I wanted to live with.
    This is both true and a common misconception for PPC devices for two reasons. A lot of it has to with the phone design vs the OS lack of navigation. WM05 has made some great improvements to non stylus nav, but the phone has to support those features.

    For example with my phone, PPC-6600, it is running only WM03 and a lot bigger than the Treo with a sliding keyboard that is not even exposed all the time. Even with all that it so non stylus capable that I was able not to use one for over 30 days while waiting for a replacement for my cracked screen. The reason.....9 programable buttons with 5 way nav. No to mention VC. The only time I became truly dependent on my stylus was playing games.

    The other reason is that there is learning curve with a WM when coming from a Palm (just like there would be the other way around) and often times new users don't understand how to do things other than using the stylus.

    I think this is where Palm is slowing losing ground. With WM devices (both OS and hardware devices) increasingly being designed to knock out extensive stylus use, many more Palm users become more attracted....or at least less entimidated by WM.

    Again, I am a Palm supporter for many different reasons beyond nice user enviroment. But I see Palm (hardware) not keeping up with the specs of the industry, especially with their new 700w. And with Palm Source not keeping up with the features of WM that has had several releases since Palms OS release. For these two reasons is why I originally said that I personally feel that a Treo Killer is not the enemy of Palm, but the Palm Companies themselves.
  8. #28  
    This is one thing I will always hate about MSFT. They do not support freedom of choice. Why can't someone choose to use a Mac desktop but a PPC? I'd use both platforms too if I could(too many &%$#@! XP updates). Apple should make it's own PDA.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. fmcgirt's Avatar
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    #29  
    I agree that the PPC non-stylus use came a long way with WM5 and hopefully third party app developers will take advantage of its features such as the soft key menu presentation which I like even better than the Palm menu button. I actually managed with a launcher to avoid most stylus use but still there was the often necessity to jerk out the stylus just to tap the OK button because some developer wouldn't let me get to it using the 5-way, etc. And that is most frustrating when driving or running for a plane or doing something else when both hands are not available. I know that this situation will improve as apps get upgraded so I look forward to that provided the Mac situation is also improved.

    Frank
  10. fmcgirt's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    This is one thing I will always hate about MSFT. They do not support freedom of choice. Why can't someone choose to use a Mac desktop but a PPC? I'd use both platforms too if I could(too many &%$#@! XP updates). Apple should make it's own PDA.
    I forgot to mention the updates. It seemed like every day I was asked to download and install a new XP or anti-virus update and I always worried if the PC would survive each update. I appreciate that the security upgrades and virus definitions are necessary because of all the hacker activity on MS systems but the final straw was when an update broke the ability to auto update the virus definitions and I either had to do that manually or go through a two page cleaning process to search and remove and replace files that were POSSIBLY causing the problems. Now that is the sort of stuff I used to be forced to do before I retired and I absolutely refuse to do it now. Going back to Macs and Palms has been a much more peaceful environment for me.

    Frank
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by fmcgirt
    I agree that the PPC non-stylus use came a long way with WM5 and hopefully third party app developers will take advantage of its features such as the soft key menu presentation which I like even better than the Palm menu button. I actually managed with a launcher to avoid most stylus use but still there was the often necessity to jerk out the stylus just to tap the OK button because some developer wouldn't let me get to it using the 5-way, etc.
    Actually this is one (among many) of the phone design vs WM OS items I was specifically thinking about when I wrote it above. The PPC-6600 has an OK hardware button on it so you never have to use the stylus to click it. IMHO every PPC phone should have it or availability to map it to a button of somekind.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    This is one thing I will always hate about MSFT. They do not support freedom of choice. Why can't someone choose to use a Mac desktop but a PPC? I'd use both platforms too if I could(too many &%$#@! XP updates). Apple should make it's own PDA.
    I fully agree with your outrage to MS. Even though I use WM, simply because it is the only option to meet my needs for my job at the moment, I am not personally a supporter of MS. I fully appreciate the challenges that MS faced in becoming the giant success it is now. But with my positions, I have seen the unruly and illegal tactics that MS has used because of the power it has. In other words, I recognize the struggle to gain power, but how they have used that power once obtained it a totally different issue. There is an old, and VERY long, post I posted on another forum going into about my agreement with you.....but I will save that for more appropriate thread.
  13. #33  
    Here's the short version:

    Treo has the best form factor in the market today.

    Palm OS is long in the tooth, and has trouble with the multi-function nature of modern smart devices.

    Cobolt was the next gen Palm OS that was released 3 years ago and was NEVER implemented on a hardware device. This was why they (PalmSource) got bought...they ran the company into the ground.

    Window Mobile 5 - the up and coming OS, soon to be on Treos.

    There will likely be a linux-type version of the Treo s that is at least a year away.

    Bottom line, use what works.
    Treo's running Palm OS and Palm apps will be around for another 2 years.
  14. JDELUNA's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by fmcgirt
    I just recently went back to Treo 650s from a KJAM on TMo and a Samsung i730 on VZ because of two reasons: (1) I am a Mac user and trying to cope with a Windows PC for sync support was an exercise in frustration and (2) the heavy dependence on the stylus in both the WM OS and third party apps was not something I wanted to live with.

    Both of my PPCs were very good, stable devices once I got the right set of apps installed and I did appreciate some of the advanced features over Palm OS. I really enjoyed using them until it was time to sync or pull out the stylus for simple single operations.

    With the Palm 700w and 6700 coming out it appears that maybe the VZ Mac user will fall even more behind. That is what truly worries me! And yes I have tried both Missing Sync and Pocket Mac - not there yet for reliable use IMHO.

    Maybe Apple will put a phone in an iPod or something like that or maybe somebody will do a really nice job on a sync app for Macs and Pocket PCs. I actually wonder why someone doesn't just build a separate sync app for the PPC with a Mac OS X support app and trash ActiveSync rather than follow the Missing Sync approach of trying to interface with ActiveSync. That has got to be frustrating trying to deal with MS and AS craziness.

    Frank

    I have to agree with you as I have used both the Palm OS and the Windows Mobile 2003, and the Palm OS is more easier to navigate without the stylus. Also just my experience the Palm OS is more stable, where-as my Windows Mobile 2003 device would freeze up and I would have to soft-reset it many times throughout the month. Also again just my opinion, was the Palm OS just written more effieciently where it does not take as much space or memory, where-as the Windows OS takes a lot of memory and space compared to Palm OS ??? Now do not get me wrong I also like the Windows OS as it is very good in its own right and I wish that the Palm OS can do a lot of things that the Windows OS can do. God Bless.
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