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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart
    Don't overlook the fact that it is possible that we have a troll or two from one or more carriers in these discussions with an agenda of torpedoing wi-fi. Some of the comments I have read in the past suggest this may be the case. THEY don't necessarily like data plans, but they would like for YOU to have a data plan.
    I think you're correct that a few of these people are employees of CDMA carriers. I saw where two posters admitted it. Funny that I don't see Cingular or T-mobile people pushing EDGE over wi-fi as much. Could it be because GSM and wi-fi are international, and those people realize this is a GLOBAL community and that we need GLOBAL connection capabilities, not just EVDO which seems to be for USA CDMA mostly?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Imate is just a small re-distributor of HTC WM Phones. They are listed on the London stock exchange and head quartered in Dubai. They have a market cap of $520 million, and made a $12 million profit on $95 million revenue. Their revenue grew 138% last year, and profit 226% . They are expanding aggressively all over the world, including America. Their profit margin was 25% recently.

    http://www.londonstockexchange.com/L...758&source=RNS

    Surur
    Thanks! Is there a comparison to Palm's profit margin, please? I am interested to see if people who claim Palm's margin is probably better, are correct. I suspect i-mate has sold more phones worldwide than Palm. Although I don't know if there's a way to separate Treo profits from PDA profits.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  3. #123  
    Palm reports a 31% profit margin for their devices. Their revenue is much much higher than Imate, but their actual profits are not that much better. In their last financial year they only made $77 million profit on $1,270 million revenue, and the two years before they made a loss.
    http://www.google.co.uk/search?oi=st...D%26safe%3Doff

    Imate probably only sell a 1/10th of what Palm sells, but they seem to be growing faster, and are worth a 1/3 of what Palm is worth. Who knows where they will be in 3 years time.

    Surur
  4. #124  
    But does that include all of their products or just the Treo? Is there any way to know how many Treos to i-mates are sold worldwide?

    Also, how about Treos to HP devices?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  5. #125  
    The only people with that specific data are the analysts, and they will charge you $5000 per copy The Treo (in USA) does a lot better than anything else except blackberry (ignoring series 60 Symbian phones of course ) but worldwide WM ppcphones probably match them 1:1. However ppcphones are taking of a lot faster worldwide.

    Surur
  6. dootndo2's Avatar
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    #126  
    In Defence of the 600 vs 650... My 600 was a hellofa stable handheld. My old 650 crashed almost as often as my Tungsten T2 does.

    I upgraded b.c of the newer os, NV memory, Hi Rez Screen, Better camera, and Bluetooth... Give the 650 more credit then calling it a 600 with bluetooth.
    I would say that the screen is "higher res" and that the camera has updated software. The camera specs are the same. The NV memory seems nice, but I recall that it was really buggy/flaky when it first came out.

    In the initial press release for the T600, they mentioned that it was designed to support updated screens with better resolutions and the design had an empty spot on the board for bluetooth. Granted it has a faster processor, but I am pretty sure that the build of materials cost on the current processor is about the same price that the T600 processor was when it came out.

    Needless to say, we were promised Wifi expansion support and didn't get it. I paid $499 for a phone that cannot be upgraded to support functionality that was in the original specs. Also the phone was replaced at least two times and the phone quality is horrific. I even believe that a class action suit was brought because of it.

    I think that is why this discussion continues.

    dootndo2

    PS, not against the T650, in fact I am considering getting one, but refuse to pay full price since I know it will not do everything that I need.
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by dootndo2
    PS, not against the T650, in fact I am considering getting one, but refuse to pay full price since I know it will not do everything that I need.
    Im not either and you raise good points...just don't get the 650...find something else (I did )
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Im not either and you raise good points...just don't get the 650...find something else (I did )
    I cannot tell you how many times last year I was told something to the fact that "If Palm doesn't give you want you want, live with it or leave and buy something else. Palm knows what they are doing." To me that does not make a profitable business model as it is shared among the Palm supporting communities. Many people are starting to listen and are leaving. I am not just talking about WIFI either, but also comparing other specs available today like memory, etc....
  9. #129  
    Dootndo2, if you really must have the Palm OS, I'd say wait for the 700p and see what it has. Now hopefully it'll appear before June if it ever appears at all. Otherwise, you'll have to move to a WM5 phone or maybe even a Symbian phone. Because Palm One is just dragging it's *** on updated Palm OS Treos. Even though I saw a rumor that the Hollywood Treo(this one is supposed to be truly updated) will have Palm OS, it's not confirmed and many suspect it will really have WM5.

    I wonder why Kyocera and Samsung quit making Palm OS phones. Did Palm One demand exclusivity? Those 2 other makers might have put out something worthwhile faster, especially Samsung.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  10. #130  
    msmobiles is reporting that Hollywood will made by HTC for CDMA2k networks. Another company will make Lowrider for unknown networks, and thirdly, HTC will make a WCDMA handset that doesn't have a name yet. Interesting. No 700p mentioned
    La Vie En Diaspora: Enfin, une émission qui raconte votre vie aux Etats-Unis

    Treo 600 in December '03, Treo 650 in February '05, HTC TyTN Pro in August '06, and back to Treo 750 in January '07, find me at MyTreo.net

    About me: story of the 100thMonkey
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    I agree. I'm sick of being told I have no right to choice of connection because EVDO is available! I don't use Verizon anyway. I would use EDGE since I'm a Cingular user! Some of these EVDO pluggers must be Verizon users. I guess they think we all need to use Verizon too and forget choice of carriers, since they keep talking about EVDO so damn much!!
    Love ur posts ladi treo; and this one got me laughing. I too am CIngular and have fun with EDGE, though I have seen EDVO in action, and dang it is nice.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I cannot tell you how many times last year I was told something to the fact that "If Palm doesn't give you want you want, live with it or leave and buy something else. Palm knows what they are doing." To me that does not make a profitable business model as it is shared among the Palm supporting communities. Many people are starting to listen and are leaving. I am not just talking about WIFI either, but also comparing other specs available today like memory, etc....
    This is true. I recalled hearing something some time ago (meaning less than 6 months) that one of the thigns happening at Palm is time to market for devices was going to be considerably shortened. For teh 650, it was like a 2 year old model when it finally came to market. My thuoght is that the newer mgmt in place is quite in mind of the fact that the model release cycle that Palm has been following has kept them out of the race for better devices. And while I dont know what that means for PalmOS Treos, I do think that WM Treos are easier and faster to get to market, therefore making design and testing soemthing that will take shorter time. Getting back some of these lost sales (Palm's hope anyways).

    But the statement still stands, if Palm dont make it, move to something else. I personally believe that a good chunk of WM's market is because Palm hasnt stepped up, not because WMs are better products overall But I like PalmOS, so I am kinda biased there for not knowing the light - Surur, a little help there please
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  13. DHart's Avatar
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    #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    ...Since EVDO's speed is comparable to WIFI, including WIFI would be a redundant feature that increases cost and potentially compromises other design considerations.
    Bob-C, this is not directed at you personally....

    I have seen this statement (EVDO speed is comparable to WIFI) made here repeatedly and it seems to have become an accepted idea, which is NOT correct. The CDMA carriers have marketed this idea to promote their "premium" services and to downgrade the idea that Wi-Fi is desirable. Check the published specs for data transfer speed for both and you will see that Wi-Fi runs rings around EVDO (and the upcoming HSPDA). Yes, real world results are slower...for BOTH technologies. But the fact remains that in the real world Wi-Fi is much faster than 3G.

    As I stated before, I think we have some carrier trolls in our midst "spinning" this idea that the speeds are comparable and Wi-Fi is simply redundant. Check out this link...

    http://wifinetnews.com/archives/004687.html

    I am not associated in anyway with any Wi-Fi hardware, software or service provider. I think Hobbes has the right attitude about Wi-Fi. You don't want or need it, fine. But acknowledge that some of us see valid reasons for wanting Wi-Fi. I think the percentage of folks who would see Wi-Fi as a positive reason for upgrading to the new Treo(s) or buying one for the first time is far larger than the naysayers are admitting.

    Then why hasn't Palm included it on previous Treos? As has been pointed out many times, Palm sells to carriers who set the specs.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine of MMM
    But the statement still stands, if Palm dont make it, move to something else. I personally believe that a good chunk of WM's market is because Palm hasnt stepped up, not because WMs are better products overall But I like PalmOS, so I am kinda biased there for not knowing the light - Surur, a little help there please
    WM is fast becoming the de facto standard for advanced connected handhelds. The range of active OEMs (HTC, Quanta, Eten, Lenovo, Gigabyte etc etc) and amount of competition and ambition amongst them, plus the size of the potential market, and the free marketing of being associated with Microsoft Windows, makes them, unfortunately for Palm OS (and even Symbian) a shoe-in for the smart device market. The OS is mature, but the execution in terms of polish is poor to say the least. The MS engineers need to stop trying to match PalmOS, and try and look at a dumb Nokia or SE phone and make their devices at least as usable as that. Why is setting a ring tone such a rigmarole under WM?

    Surur
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart
    Bob-C, this is not directed at you personally....

    I have seen this statement (EVDO speed is comparable to WIFI) made here repeatedly and it seems to have become an accepted idea, which is NOT correct. The CDMA carriers have marketed this idea to promote their "premium" services and to downgrade the idea that Wi-Fi is desirable. Check the published specs for data transfer speed for both and you will see that Wi-Fi runs rings around EVDO (and the upcoming HSPDA). <snip>
    I think the problem here is that ppl keep thinking of wireless networking as something you use to surf the web....and that's it. So taking a T1 or DSL connection speed into consideration, EVDO will do well.

    HOWEVER, if I want to browse a local network, then WiFi will kick EVDO's buttocks.
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  16. Reapman's Avatar
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    #136  
    You don't want or need it, fine. But acknowledge that some of us see valid reasons for wanting Wi-Fi. I think the percentage of folks who would see Wi-Fi as a positive reason for upgrading to the new Treo(s) or buying one for the first time is far larger than the naysayers are admitting.

    Then why hasn't Palm included it on previous Treos? As has been pointed out many times, Palm sells to carriers who set the specs.


    Well put, I have absolutely no use for a camera on mine, but that doesn't mean I should demand Palm stop making models without a Camera. if the Treo 700 doesn't at least have support for WiFi SDIO, and still runs tired old Garnet, I don't know if I'll ever go back to Palm.
  17. #137  
    (wanted to quote surur's last but on 650 I get no quote button)

    from the sounds of folks at ppct looking at the treonauts reviewz, the little things palm has done to the 700 has convinced many of them that the 700 can succeed where other WM phones have failed in past and present. that is a good thing. ironically though the usaiblity there saud could have been done to the 650 and made for an even better product.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  18. Tim_treo's Avatar
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    #138  
    "I think the problem here is that ppl keep thinking of wireless networking as something you use to surf the web....and that's it. So taking a T1 or DSL connection speed into consideration, EVDO will do well.

    HOWEVER, if I want to browse a local network, then WiFi will kick EVDO's buttocks. "

    Like a lot of people have a need to browse a local network. YOU may find it cool and geeky, but most of us find trying to do things on a dinky screen with an underpowered processor sufficiently frustrating that we'll walk the ten feet over to the desktop computer and do things the normal way.
  19. pump142's Avatar
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    #139  
    We have so gotten off track.
    New treos.
    What if anything do we really know about them?
    Palm isnt listening to all the whining about I want this or I want that.
    If they did we wouldnt be so impatient to upgrade from our 650 disappointments.
    Bottom line is WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO OFFER and WHEN?
  20. #140  
    Here you go Pump, I posted this yesterday...I guess being ignored is what I get for posted in the middle of a wi-fi war

    Quote Originally Posted by 100thMonkey
    msmobiles is reporting that Hollywood will made by HTC for CDMA2k networks. Another company will make Lowrider for unknown networks, and thirdly, HTC will make a WCDMA handset that doesn't have a name yet. Interesting. No 700p mentioned
    La Vie En Diaspora: Enfin, une émission qui raconte votre vie aux Etats-Unis

    Treo 600 in December '03, Treo 650 in February '05, HTC TyTN Pro in August '06, and back to Treo 750 in January '07, find me at MyTreo.net

    About me: story of the 100thMonkey
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