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  1. #81  
    I agree with you Hobbes, if Palm has made a mistake it will hurt them. I suspect, however, that for PALM, the decision not to include built-in wi-fi is a net gain for them at this point. Time, however, will tell...

    And FWIW, palms stock has shot up quite a bit over the last week as they exceeded market expectations by a good margin.
  2. #82  
    Wow, you all get in a bit of a hissy about the wifi on a Treo thing. But to be a bit less biased about it, there isnt wifi in a Treo in large part because the carriers didnt want it there. Carriers are whom phones are sold to, the carriers sell the service and then the phone to us (note the middle man and how you cannot do withuot them). Putting wifi in a phone effectively means to them that you can cut out the middle man (aka the service provider) to do something they would rather you pay for.

    Yes, since the 650 has released, there has been a good deal of phones that have included wifi (and all with WinMob). Part of that isnt a carrier issue, but an OS issue. Palm (not PalmSource) had to write a driver to use the wifi card. WinMob has it built in. The "driver" is simply a keylock like item to that kinda device. Whereas to a palmOS device needed the whole lock and door to get started. Palm made a choice there, and folks are miffed.

    Sounds like double talking on my end but it isnt. If folks scream loud enough, then it will come. If not in the 650, than in the 700p in a bundle that will cost another apendage.

    Concerning the 4 new models:
    700w, 700p, Lowrider should be Z22+cellular and plump size (flip would be great there honestly), and Hollywood (WM is my thought personally becasue thats what will penetrate EU best, not PalmOS, and not necessarily a wifi phone). But these are only my guesses, when I cannot speak any more then I have the real deal.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    With more and more phones offering WIFI at the moment and in the near future, I personally think this is a risky business decision as for many professional users....which is what the Treo targets...WIFI is the only source for connectivity in many situations. For me, this was a MAJOR deciding factor for me not upgrading to the Treo 650 and buying the PPC-6600 which supported WIFI. If I was in the same place now as I was then, I would buy the PPC-6700 because it has built in WIFI.

    Until Palm offers it again, I cannot consider getting another Treo. Since I usually upgrade with each new generation, that means they lost me several times over as a customer and will continue to lose my sales until they offer me the opportunity to get my vital emails and stats no matter what situation I am in.

    As you stated not every customer needs WIFI, but there are also those either want it or need it. You are right in saying exactly what I said over a year ago in the thread I posted above.....Palm does need to evaluate the needs vs loss of business. I am just not sure if Palm can afford to make the wrong decision whatever it is.
    VERY good points, Hobbes!!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by midmofan
    I dont HATE wi-fi, but the fact is that I, and many others, don't need it. Since I don't need it, i certainly don't want to pay for it, or have its incorporation into any device I might get result in other compromises.

    As far as Palms "refusal" to include it. They are doing what they have calculated is the best for the device/company. That includes both keeping the price-point below their target and responding to their main customers desires...and their main customers are the carriers who, presumably, are not fond of wi-fi on their phones. Now Palm's calculation could be wrong if more sales are lost because of no wi-fi than are gained by reduced price and happier carrier-customers, but I doubt it.

    As for "choice." Having wi-fi buit in to all phones eliminates the choice of those that dont want to pay for it. Having one device with and one without is obviously possible, but may not be cost-effective to palm and could make carriers unhappy anyway.

    So its pretty simple really. If built in Wi-Fi is that important to you, buy a device that includes it. If it doesnt, then buy accordingly. The marketplace will decide what is needed and not in the long run. If Palm has missed it bad, they will suffer, if not, they have a net gain.
    How much does wi-fi really cost? If Palm and HP can put it on a $300 dollar device, can't be that much. Plus I have found phones with both wi-fi AND Edge(for you data plan lovers) options for $500-$600 unlocked, not that far off from the Treo. I don't think adding wi-fi adds that much to the cost of the device.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    WHY IS CHOICE SUCH A DIFFICULT CONCEPT?

    No one is FORCING you to accept WiFi, so why do so many take up as shills for Palm and excuse Palm's refusal to add a WiFi radio to the Treo? Many other manufacturers can do it (maybe that's the real answer) and offering a "card" solution on the cusp of 2006 is so 90's. I don't want a second appendage sticking out of the Treo; and worst yet, there goes my memory storage for my oh so generous 32mb Treo.

    If you don't need or want WiFi, FINE, but why do you keep defending Palm's refusal to add it to the Treo line?
    Because they like being on proprietary data plans. Can't you tell? And just like with wi-fi, that's good for some, but not for others. Choice and option of connection is a GOOD thing, but data plan lovers don't see it. They think it's good to pay double their cell plan every month(except Sprint, gotta give them credit). Plus, as Gecko has pointed out many times, data plans are no good in certain situations.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. #86  
    I hope one of the 4 new phones is a TreoPod.
  7. #87  
    I am just thinking that implementing wifi on a treo with its own radio is something that is too much for it to handle. If it wasn't, then why wouldn't palm put wifi in it? I used to think that it might have been a carrier issue but there are gsm phones that have wifi (which are used on tmobile and cingular), there are cdma phones that have wifi on verizon (i730) and sprint (6700). It doesn't seem to make any sense why they wouldn't include it if they could. With carriers allowing wifi in PPC phones, it's causing me to think twice.

    (BTW-if the next treo doesn't have wifi built in, then that pretty much will confirm it for me.)
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

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    #88  
    I think why many of the people are opposed to Wifi on the treo is that good hardware development is all about trade-offs. If they stick wifi in, something has to go, or not be upgraded. Will it be the memory, the processor, the form factor, etc...? The only thing that is for certain, is that Wifi will come at a cost.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim_treo
    If they stick wifi in, something has to go, or not be upgraded.
    That's a good point, there is a physical size difference between some of the wifi phones but then again, compare the physical size of the treo with the i730?
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  10. #90  
    I don't buy that excuse, TimTreo.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. Tim_treo's Avatar
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    #91  
    "That's a good point, there is a physical size difference between some of the wifi phones but then again, compare the physical size of the treo with the i730?"

    I haven't seen the i730, but it's not only just physical size and features that matters. If they implement Wifi, then they have to support it. Wifi always seems to be one of the flakiest feature on pc's and on wifi PDAs, so I imagine it will suck up a fair amount of tech support time. In the end Palm has to settle on a vision for what the phone is going to do, and have it do it well. You're not going to meet every customer's need. I just don't think their vision of what a smartphone is inlcudes wifi, and I agree with this vision.
  12. Q
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    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim_treo
    I imagine it will suck up a fair amount of tech support time.
    That and a fair amount of battery life...
  13. #93  
    I have a treo 600 on Sprint now. I am really looking for a model with GPS locked in (I am always needing good directions) and browser that works like my desktop. I know WiFI is prolly not going to happen but as long as I can slip a card in to get it I am fine.
    Anyone know if one of these models will have GPS+Compatable Browser (Blazer sucks).
    And importantly when will it ship? I am mega bored of my 600.
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    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Because they like being on proprietary data plans. Can't you tell? And just like with wi-fi, that's good for some, but not for others. Choice and option of connection is a GOOD thing, but data plan lovers don't see it. They think it's good to pay double their cell plan every month(except Sprint, gotta give them credit). Plus, as Gecko has pointed out many times, data plans are no good in certain situations.
    Don't overlook the fact that it is possible that we have a troll or two from one or more carriers in these discussions with an agenda of torpedoing wi-fi. Some of the comments I have read in the past suggest this may be the case. THEY don't necessarily like data plans, but they would like for YOU to have a data plan.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim_treo
    " If they implement Wifi, then they have to support it. Wifi always seems to be one of the flakiest feature on pc's and on wifi PDAs, so I imagine it will suck up a fair amount of tech support time.
    Yup, and unlike some other devices, the tech support call will go to the carrier. Can you imagine a Sprint tech dealing with a customer who couldnt get is VIOP to work at Starbucks!

    Yes I know there ARE some carrier-sold phones with W-Fi, but not in near the volume apparantly as the Treo and not where a carrier helped bankroll development and pushes the phone so strongly. In same report that mentioned "4 new treos" Palm said they had recently shipped over a million 650s. Can you imagine a million more people all calling the carrier to complain about wi-fi!!! You think your "hold-time" is bad now for support....
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim_treo
    I haven't seen the i730, but it's not only just physical size and features that matters. If they implement Wifi, then they have to support it. Wifi always seems to be one of the flakiest feature on pc's and on wifi PDAs, so I imagine it will suck up a fair amount of tech support time. In the end Palm has to settle on a vision for what the phone is going to do, and have it do it well. You're not going to meet every customer's need. I just don't think their vision of what a smartphone is inlcudes wifi, and I agree with this vision.
    Yeah but it seems like more and more phones are including some sort of wifi option. Palm has to keep up with it's feature set...
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by Q
    That and a fair amount of battery life...
    I hear this a lot...but you have the option of turning it off when you arent using it.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by midmofan
    Yup, and unlike some other devices, the tech support call will go to the carrier. Can you imagine a Sprint tech dealing with a customer who couldnt get is VIOP to work at Starbucks!

    Yes I know there ARE some carrier-sold phones with W-Fi, but not in near the volume apparantly as the Treo and not where a carrier helped bankroll development and pushes the phone so strongly. In same report that mentioned "4 new treos" Palm said they had recently shipped over a million 650s. Can you imagine a million more people all calling the carrier to complain about wi-fi!!! You think your "hold-time" is bad now for support....
    There are already quite a few phones that have wifi built in (or that you can use with an sd card)...how are carriers having to handle that with the current level of tech support?
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  19. #99  
    All these arguments people are having about WIFI were made about color screens. Palm will eventually get with the program, like they always do. Competition will see to it.

    Surur
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    All these arguments people are having about WIFI were made about color screens. Palm will eventually get with the program, like they always do. Competition will see to it.

    Surur
    LOL!

    Truthfully all of these arguments about WIFI all throughout nearly every forum here at TC is about those who may not have a need personally for WIFI unable to recognize that there is a whole group of people that actually have a need that they don't, so since they don't need it why offer it to anyone.

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