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  1. #161  
    In that link you posted, it says that you can shut down programs a lot faster. Now that was one of my pet peeves about WM5. That IS an improvement. That and the 2 contact shortcuts on the Today page(is there an option for NOT using a picture though?).

    I owe Rvwink an apology.

    But I'm still not completely on the bandwagon yet, due to the carrier(I don't use CDMA or Verizon's data rates) and the fact that I still want another device with built-in wi-fi. And is it true the resolution will be 240x240, or was that just a rumor? I prefer 320 and up. Wi-fi and resolution are the 2 things that would keep me away from this device when it comes out on GSM. Although a workaround for wi-fi seems to be available(finally!).
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  2. #162  
    Lady Treo

    http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000867059961/

    The above link should answer some of your questions. The questions at the bottom of the review also contain some information.
  3. #163  
    I saw that link before and it made me want to take a pass due to the resolution, although they say they can't really tell for sure.

    I seriously think I'll be waiting for the next Treo beyond the 700w. Even if they release the GSM version, it's not enough to get me to buy. The "upgrades" actually are minor when you think about it, considering what other devices have.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4. slinky's Avatar
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    #164  
    The lack of built in WiFi and Palm's desire to sell you yet another piece of hardware for over $100 after paying over $600-650 (with tax) AND a long contract is pathetic. With WiFi built in (and able to be turned off) as standard in other phones, they are slitting their own throats. This is a phone desired by carriers to force people to use EVDO or pay an extra $100+ to buy a card that will take away the SD Card that you're all going to need in there 247 because there is only 64MB of RAM in it!!!!!

    As much as I originally didn't care for it, if the 700W only puts out 240x240 too, then it makes sense to get this and end of story.

    http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=1299

    Other reasons:
    (1) Form factor is OK but when you've got others that are half the size with no antenna, it's not impressive any more.

    (2) Palm has the same, impossible to hear earphone. It's far easier to find the G-Spot than to find the Treo sweet spot.

    (3) Apparently the Moto will use widescreen 320x220. I can live with that.

    Sad to say, the 650 might be the last Palm device I use after having owned them from way back to the IIIx.
  5. #165  
    If I hadn't seen the full featured TX, or even the Life Drive(although not popular, it has a lot)I might have said yes Palm OS is over. But we know they can do it! They are contradictory for some reason!

    One thing, the Q will have WM5 Smartphone, the Wizard and my other device have the full version. The full version is better, isn't it?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. #166  
    Yes....picture Smartphone as the SE ( aka: watered down) version of WM.
  7. #167  
    The WM5 competitors distinguish themselves from the competition by how many features they can cram in. Since they all have the same software, thats the only way they can distinguish their phone from their competition. Palm is different. They believe the way to differentiate oneself from the competition is to focus most on maximizing the user experience. They also insist on not putting in new features until those features improve the users experience.

    If you insist on having a feature to feature competition, Treo will likely lose. But they consistently win, review after review, when the review examines the integration of the phones features, and which phone is easier to use, creating the best user experience. My own opinion is that measuring how many features the phone has, is not what I would differentiate based on. The key issue for me is whether or not the phone has the wherewithall to make YOU happy. I know it sounds trite, but in the end the differentiator is software, not hardware, and Palm has the best software capabilites of any smartphone manufacturer.
  8. #168  
    Features are important to me for the kind of money I'm paying. When Palm entered the WM5 arena, they entered a whole new category and what they have is average. The form factor is all they have going and many will indeed settle for that alone. I however will look elsewhere now that I've seen what's out there for WM5.

    Hopefully the Palm OS Treo they will be releasing(supposedly) will be like the TX(lots of great features). I'd rather use Palm OS on a Treo anyway.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by rvwink
    The WM5 competitors distinguish themselves from the competition by how many features they can cram in. Since they all have the same software, thats the only way they can distinguish their phone from their competition. Palm is different. They believe the way to differentiate oneself from the competition is to focus most on maximizing the user experience. They also insist on not putting in new features until those features improve the users experience.

    If you insist on having a feature to feature competition, Treo will likely lose. But they consistently win, review after review, when the review examines the integration of the phones features, and which phone is easier to use, creating the best user experience. My own opinion is that measuring how many features the phone has, is not what I would differentiate based on. The key issue for me is whether or not the phone has the wherewithall to make YOU happy. I know it sounds trite, but in the end the differentiator is software, not hardware, and Palm has the best software capabilites of any smartphone manufacturer.

    Very well put, but this view is anathema to many WM users who stricly rely on spec sheets to justify their purchases! However, I think the most telling stat will be how many non-technophils actually will buy the 700w which imo is who Palm is actually targeting here...
    _________________
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  10. slinky's Avatar
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    #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Very well put, but this view is anathema to many WM users who stricly rely on spec sheets to justify their purchases! However, I think the most telling stat will be how many non-technophils actually will buy the 700w which imo is who Palm is actually targeting here...
    If that is the case and market is based upon look and form factor, then Moto's cooler, smaller, thinner version will destroy the Treo in the same way that the Razor was selling like hotcakes.

    rvwink -- the reviews are based on Palm vs. Windows software. The gap is closing and even if it's slightly more complicated, people will learn how to use the device, especially when features are clearly differentiated and appearance isn't so glaring any more. Palm has sat on it's **** for yet one more release of the Treo and it appears that this one might put a real dent in its image and bottom line.
  11. #171  
    Features arnt everything, its the only thing! I'm smart enough to figure out a difficult to use feature, as long as its there to start with. If there is no video accelerator no magic ease of use software will add it, but if its there I dont mind 10 taps to get Quake to run at 25 FPS.

    Surur
  12. #172  
    I am preaching to the wrong choir. The "state of the art" gang that hangs out at Treo Central is not the mainstream market for smartphones. You guys might jump to a different phone for extra features, but my bet is that the mainstream market will read the reviews and ask their friends for recommendations. They will rely on the opinion of others, because they know that they are clueless. Having the well known Treo brand, available at all of the major US service providers gives Palm an edge that others can't match.

    You guys may buy some unknown brand so you figure out how to run "Quake", but the main stream guy wants his hand to be held, and wants the best known brand. Fact is Palm wins, the mainstream customer wins, and occassionally a few Treo Central guys will jump to another smartphone. But most of you are bluffing imo, or if you are not, you will return, when you understand what you are missing. Don't expect this post to be popular, but so be it.
  13. #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by rvwink
    You guys may buy some unknown brand so you figure out how to run "Quake", but the main stream guy wants his hand to be held, and wants the best known brand. Fact is Palm wins, the mainstream customer wins, and occassionally a few Treo Central guys will jump to another smartphone. But most of you are bluffing imo, or if you are not, you will return, when you understand what you are missing. Don't expect this post to be popular, but so be it.
    I jumped ship 13 months ago, and I am still getting the jealous glance from many 650 owners among my friends and co-workers. For my opinion 13 months after selling my Treo, please CLICK HERE.

    But the bottom line is if the phone meets your needs, wants, desire, geek meter factor, additional level of desired sex appeal, then it is the right phone for you!

    That is what makes the market go around!
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 12/07/2005 at 09:38 PM.
  14. #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    If that is the case and market is based upon look and form factor, then Moto's cooler, smaller, thinner version will destroy the Treo in the same way that the Razor was selling like hotcakes.

    rvwink -- the reviews are based on Palm vs. Windows software. The gap is closing and even if it's slightly more complicated, people will learn how to use the device, especially when features are clearly differentiated and appearance isn't so glaring any more. Palm has sat on it's **** for yet one more release of the Treo and it appears that this one might put a real dent in its image and bottom line.

    Uhh...I think you missed the point of my original response to rvwink's post...

    The focus I was referring to was "ease of usability and integration" vs specs, not simply about styling and form factor.

    The Moto razr smartphone etc may have better styling, but how does it compare in integration and ease of use? The hallmark of Palm and what makes the Treo brand valuable is the perceived high level of user friendliness and integraton that makes Treo owners happy. Palm will never be able to win a spec sheet war with other OEM's but they can cultivate a brand for high quality usability and integration...that was my point fyi.

    The Treo 700w will obviously NOT be the most tricked out WM pdaphone in terms of specs. But it has a proven form factor and it will now be up to Palm to prove that they can delive the same Treo brand quality of use and integration on the WM platform that they have offered on the PalmOS version. Unlike most users here, the majority of Treo owners and future 700w owner are not going to be tech savvy geeks who are going to push their devices to the limit. They will be ordinary corp types who got a 700w b/c their IT dept are MS only shops and b/c they need exchange integration and prefer the Treo design. Wifi will not be on the top of the list similar to the way it is NOT on the top of the list for most BB users either (except of the power user type)...
    _________________
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  15. slinky's Avatar
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    #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Uhh...I think you missed the point of my original response to rvwink's post...

    ...The Treo 700w will obviously NOT be the most tricked out WM pdaphone in terms of specs. But it has a proven form factor and it will now be up to Palm to prove that they can delive the same Treo brand quality of use and integration on the WM platform that they have offered on the PalmOS version. Unlike most users here, the majority of Treo owners and future 700w owner are not going to be tech savvy geeks who are going to push their devices to the limit. They will be ordinary corp types who got a 700w b/c their IT dept are MS only shops and b/c they need exchange integration and prefer the Treo design. Wifi will not be on the top of the list similar to the way it is NOT on the top of the list for most BB users either (except of the power user type)...
    Respectfully, I don't know what you're trying to say -- that the Treo hardware is easy to use regardless of OS? Almost all of these phones have the same buttons and the big difference is the form factor. The Treos were small in comparison, relatively durable, were easy to type on and the Palm OS made it simple. WM5 in a treo, the Moto or many other phones isn't exactly a world of difference. Plus, I'll bet there won't be one consumer who will say "with the same stuff in the box I'll go with the big phone because some people are saying the Treo is so easy to use." No... they'll but the cooler smaller phone because it is practically one and the same as WM5. The custom differences will be marginal.
  16. #176  
    Quote Originally Posted by rvwink
    I am preaching to the wrong choir. The "state of the art" gang that hangs out at Treo Central is not the mainstream market for smartphones. You guys might jump to a different phone for extra features, but my bet is that the mainstream market will read the reviews and ask their friends for recommendations. They will rely on the opinion of others, because they know that they are clueless. Having the well known Treo brand, available at all of the major US service providers gives Palm an edge that others can't match.

    You guys may buy some unknown brand so you figure out how to run "Quake", but the main stream guy wants his hand to be held, and wants the best known brand. Fact is Palm wins, the mainstream customer wins, and occassionally a few Treo Central guys will jump to another smartphone. But most of you are bluffing imo, or if you are not, you will return, when you understand what you are missing. Don't expect this post to be popular, but so be it.
    IMO Palm showed it's true hand when it showed us they could have featured up the Palm OS Treo a little better(Lifedrive,TX). I'm really not happy about that. Treo users got the shaft while PDA users got it all! What was the reasoning for that??? Why not keep ALL Palm OS users happy? They have one more chance to make it up to us with the 700p.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  17. #177  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Respectfully, I don't know what you're trying to say -- that the Treo hardware is easy to use regardless of OS? Almost all of these phones have the same buttons and the big difference is the form factor. The Treos were small in comparison, relatively durable, were easy to type on and the Palm OS made it simple. WM5 in a treo, the Moto or many other phones isn't exactly a world of difference. Plus, I'll bet there won't be one consumer who will say "with the same stuff in the box I'll go with the big phone because some people are saying the Treo is so easy to use." No... they'll but the cooler smaller phone because it is practically one and the same as WM5. The custom differences will be marginal.
    What I'm trying to say is that Palm has sold the Treo brand in terms of usability and ease of use on the PalmOS platform. It remains to be seen if they can replicate that type user friendliness and integration on WM. In fact that was the whole point of the 700w press launch a couple months ago...just refer to the TC articles if you've forgotten how much Palm was tryying to emaphasize how they have tried to customize and replicate the same type of integration on the WM version as they have on the palmos version. Whether this is all FUD or if these "custom differences will be marginal" is unknown...none of will for another month or so. The point is though that Palm is trying to differentiate itself on the basis of the over "end user experience" or solution, not by spec sheet. This has been their strategy for a long time and quitely frankly has irked many palmos users I admit. It will be interesting to see if they can port this approach to the WM platform where a certain level of commoditzation has occurres that has not on the palmos world. I personally think a 700W withou wifi and other specs will still do well and perhaps better than almost all other WM pdaphones out there precisely b/c of the Palm brand. Lets just wait and see how well they execute this....
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  18. #178  
    I just hope that Palm realizes the market for WM devices now. I mean I hope they stand up to the standards of memory, Wifi (integrated or at least supported), processor, etc.... Palm and WM are two totally different worlds. I want to see the Treo be successful but it is now going toe to toe for first time in a long time with devices that can be compared as apples to apples.
  19. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    ...In fact that was the whole point of the 700w press launch a couple months ago...just refer to the TC articles if you've forgotten how much Palm was tryying to emaphasize how they have tried to customize and replicate the same type of integration on the WM version as they have on the palmos version. Whether this is all FUD or if these "custom differences will be marginal" is unknown...
    Yes it will be quite interesting. Will Palm replicate:

    1. the Palm experience on a Microsoft platform, or

    2. the Microsoft FUD factor on the Palm platform?

    Hobbes is right - Palm is now venturing into a thicket where there are some real competitors with a very high feature threshold. 32mb won't cut it when all the competitors offer 64mb or more. And I don't think WiFi "support" will be enough to compete against integrated solutions, although if EV-DO is as good as Verizon claims, that may obviate the need for WiFi.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  20. #180  
    Here is a good example very recent example about what I was talking about earlier.

    "Palm Treo 650 Smartphone Named Best Converged Device by Strategy Analytics
    Thursday December 8, 9:00 am ET
    Superior Menu Systems, User Interface, Display, Style and Design Draw U.S. Consumers

    SUNNYVALE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 8, 2005--According to global research and consulting company Strategy Analytics, the Palm® Treo(TM) 650 smartphone from Palm, Inc. (Nasdaq:PALM - News) is the highest-rated converged device in the United States. The Treo 650's "Best in Class" performance rating comes from a head-to-head consumer test against the RIM BlackBerry 7100, the Samsung SCH-i730 and the UTStarcomm PPC6600. These results come from hands-on consumer testing by the Strategy Analytics Advanced Wireless User Panel.

    "More mobile professionals these days are choosing their device based on look, feel and ease of use," said Kevin Nolan, director of the Advanced Wireless Laboratory at Strategy Analytics. "The Treo 650's small form factor and stylish design blended with Palm's hallmark user experience make it more appealing than other converged devices on the market today. Participants struggled with the BlackBerry 7100's steep out-of-the-box learning curve."

    With carrier activation, the Palm Treo 650 smartphone combines a compact, full-featured mobile phone with email, a Palm OS® organizer, messaging, web access and digital camera, letting users organize and simplify their business and personal lives all in one device.(1) The Treo 650 builds on the award-winning design of the Treo 600 with new and improved features, including a high-resolution screen; expanded multimedia capabilities, such as an MP3 player and video capture and playback(2); removable battery; non-volatile memory; and Bluetooth® wireless technology.

    "We've set out to change the way people work, live and play," said Ken Wirt, senior vice president of worldwide marketing at Palm. "Customers tell us the Treo smartphone is the right form factor with the right integration of software and hardware to make using a phone, managing email and staying on top of all your important information and meetings easy. The Strategy Analytics study further validates that customers regard the Treo 650 as one of the best converged devices on the market."

    Institutions interested in reviewing the Strategy Analytics converged device benchmark report "Blackberry Learning Curve Too Steep for Consumers as Palm Treo Sets New Usability Standard" should contact Kevin Nolan, director of the Advanced Wireless Laboratory at Strategy Analytics, at +44 1908 423609 (UK) or knolan@strategyanalytics.com."

    If thats what rocks your boat, chase the exciting new features. The average mainstream customers will look for reviews like what is above, and buy mainly Treos instead of other WM5 clones because almost every objective person who tests the available smartphones, things the Treo is best. The apples to apples comparison Hobbes suggests if it is based on consumer satisfaction instead of who has more bells and whistles will also be won by the Treo700W imo.
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