Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 188
  1. #101  
    Rv . . . some news that may be of interest to you is that the RIMM legal troubles are starting to have an effect on businesses.

    My wife just text messaged me that her company (over $1 billion in revenues, public co) has just informed her that they are getting a few treos as a backup plan in case RIMMs troubles don't go away. This tells me that IT departments cannot take a risk. They have to have a plan in place. I would anticipate most companies taking similar measures.
  2. #102  
    Rv,

    I think a major fear of Palm using MS os was that they would end up in a commodity market.

    Well, what most people don't recognize is that Palm has already proved that they can succeed in such an environment and remain profitable, even against the likes of Sony, Dell, and HP. Personally, I believe that they can succeed in an environment against Nokia, samsung, hp, etc. because they have already done it.
  3. #103  
    Good story about your wife. Just what I was suggesting on another forum.

    It certainly is true that Palm has more than enough volume between their pda and Treo divisions to buy radios, screens and cpus cheaply enough to produce their devices at competitive rates. But when Palm competed with Sony, Dell and HP, they still had a proprietary operating system. So I am not sure they can flourish in a windows only environment as a clone manufacturer. It is extremely important that Palm be able to maintain their Palm OS presense, because that persuades alot of existing Palm Pda owners to upgrade to newer Palm products. Also their gross margins on Treos of approximately 35% would not be sustainable in that environment imo. Finally, until now, Palm has been in a better position to negotiate customer rebates with service providers, than it competitors because of its historically higher arpu. If they were to become a clone manufacturer, perhaps their leverage with the service providers might be difficult to maintain. I really wouldn't want to see them go down that path.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by rvwink
    Good story about your wife. Just what I was suggesting on another forum.
    Finally, until now, Palm has been in a better position to negotiate customer rebates with service providers, than it competitors because of its historically higher arpu. If they were to become a clone manufacturer, perhaps their leverage with the service providers might be difficult to maintain. I really wouldn't want to see them go down that path.
    I don't think palms have the higher ARPU (wm devices seem to have more costly data plans that Treos)

    So what's their leverage? I think Palm's leverage is that they make each device to a major carriers specification, even with WM they can add specific applications (and if Sagios report is true then Cingular, Sprint, and Verizon are each getting exclusivity on their desired Treo for a time). How many wifi treos are out from Palm? Carriers don't want them, Palm says OK (of course there are other considerations such as price and market readiness). However nokia and motorola may not be so willing to agree to carrier specification because of their name recognition. As palms brand recognition increases in the phone sector they will begin to have more clout with carriers (in fact it seems they have it now). For carriers building Palm into a powerhouse benefits them. The more strong manufacturers they can turn to the better phones and prices they can offer.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by craigdts
    I don't think palms have the higher ARPU (wm devices seem to have more costly data plans that Treos)

    Actually I think they do! I'll find the link later, but I recall a study showing that the Treo had one of the highest overall ARPU of any handsets...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    No problem. It boils down to who the manufacturer is. I know that HP is very much like Palm in that they are always changing connectors (I don't want to be a cynic, but there's no valid technological reason why they should do this...).
    Actually, that's not really the case. HP has been remarkably consistent with their connectors, except for a few low-end models two years ago that had the connector flipped. Otherwise, they've been the most consistent manufacturer for connectors. There are plenty of reasons to despise HP, but that's not one of them.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Actually I think they do! I'll find the link later, but I recall a study showing that the Treo had one of the highest overall ARPU of any handsets...
    This one

    http://networks.silicon.com/mobile/0...9127896,00.htm

    or this one

    http://networks.silicon.com/mobile/0...9127896,00.htm

    Surur
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamaDBrown
    Actually, that's not really the case. HP has been remarkably consistent with their connectors, except for a few low-end models two years ago that had the connector flipped. Otherwise, they've been the most consistent manufacturer for connectors. There are plenty of reasons to despise HP, but that's not one of them.
    I might have been bitten by one of those changes then. My iPaq 4350 uses a different connector than the previous 4xxx series iPaqs. At any rate I do love the mini USB connector on my present PPC6700 - can't get much more standard than that!
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I am 100% sure than any new PalmOS Treo's will sell well, because its PalmOS, and Palm users are loyal. Just look at the success of the Tx. Its a T5 with WIFI and less features, yet people are raving about it. Nuff said.

    Surur
    I like the TX a lot too!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by rvwink
    Having said all of that, I was strongly against Palm introducing a Windows product. I thought to the extent that they were helping Windows, they were hurting the Palm OS. I thought the short term benefits would be outweighed by the long term difficulties. But I didn't understand a few things when I took my position. First, I didn't expect that MSFT would actually let Palm change their software, much less help them do it. Second, I didn't visualize how important it would be when for example at Verizon, Palm has a chance of either competing against someone elses windows product, or now competing against their own windows product. Third, I didn't anticipate that Palm's OS path might actually be cloudy and that they had to protect Palm's ability to move forward in case their next Palm OS wasn't ready when they whistled. In short, I was wrong previously. But I am not tormenting myself because I was wrong, because it was a very tough call, even in retrospect.
    I still think you may be correct. Unless they introduce a new and improved Palm OS on those new devices they're supposed to be debuting by May, Palm OS may be finished until further notice. And by using Windows on Palm devices, they're indirectly saying Palm OS isn't where it's at anymore. When you dump your own signature OS, that says a lot.

    I still wonder exactly what Palm was thinking. They wanted to steal WM customers? Well they're a bit late! WM5 is already out on other manufacturers' devices. People are already buying those. Like someone else said, why didn't they release the WM Treo this year? People are supposed to wait for them?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    I still think you may be correct. Unless they introduce a new and improved Palm OS on those new devices they're supposed to be debuting by May, Palm OS may be finished until further notice. And by using Windows on Palm devices, they're indirectly saying Palm OS isn't where it's at anymore. When you dump your own signature OS, that says a lot.

    I still wonder exactly what Palm was thinking. They wanted to steal WM customers? Well they're a bit late!

    I was sure I was correct when I talked about how dumb it was to belittle the Palm OS by coming out with a Windows device. Thing is they needed to break into the European Market and it wasn't happening with the Palm OS. The way to make it happen was to come out with a GSM phone that was slim, antenna less and Windows. Also there were a lot of large companies that said, we want to buy a Treo, but we need to stay with Windows. If they had a strong Palm OS pipeline guaranteed to work, maybe they could have afforded to turn down the short term profit, and protect their Brand. So what probably happened was they said no to Windows, but they said no unless you let us build a proprietary version of your software, and much to their surprise, MSFT said yes.

    I disagree with Palm being late. Bill Gates enthusiasm clearly indicates that Palm has brought some new things to the Windows OS, and that this product is differentiated from the competition. Also the Treo has already been marketed to the Enterprise. A number of enterprise customers wanted the Treo, but insisted on only using Windows products. So the Windows Treo comes in with alot of pluses and presently is not another Windows clone like the others you are thinking about. Anyway thats my view. Btw, I don't know for sure whether Hollywood has wifi, and I don't know for sure that it is windows OS, but my guess is that the answer is yes to both questions.
  12. #112  
    Now what exactly will be so exclusive about Palm Windows that other WM devices don't have? EEEK, that sentence just looks bad!! Whoever would have thought we'd have to say that??

    Do you have a link?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by rvwink
    Thing is they needed to break into the European Market and it wasn't happening with the Palm OS.
    Is WM taking Europe by storm? I thought S60 was the dominant platform over there.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvwink
    The way to make it happen was to come out with a GSM phone that was slim, antenna less and Windows.
    Two out of three of those perhaps. Just about everyone (European or not) likes slim and antenna-less phones. I'm not sure that it needs to be WM instead of Palm OS, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvwink
    So what probably happened was they said no to Windows, but they said no unless you let us build a proprietary version of your software, and much to their surprise, MSFT said yes.
    No. Again, 700w will *not* be running a proprietary version of WM. As best as I can tell, Palm has done some low-level hacking to replace the standard Today screen with a more phone-centric screen/app. But let's address this one from a different angle...Microsoft's growing advantage with WM is the tie-in to Visual Studio .NET 2005. The .NET development tools are taking hold in the enterprise now that they have finally matured and the latest version (2005) offers significantly improved mobile development tools. Companies are already moving heavily to .NET for web development (the ones that aren't going the J2EE route) and so developers/companies that standardize on .NET will have the skills/tools they need to do WM development. Using these tools, they can create apps that will run on any WM device. MS has exposed standard API (programming interfaces) for the microphone, camera, phone, etc. functionality of a WM device. If Palm were to have "done something different/better" this will very likely be seen as a *negative* as it will be the same sort of non-standard stuff that Palm OS developers have had headaches with and has caused many of them to leave the Palm OS altogether. I don't think they'd be chomping at the bit to get back into that mess again.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvwink
    I disagree with Palm being late. Bill Gates enthusiasm clearly indicates that Palm has brought some new things to the Windows OS, and that this product is differentiated from the competition.
    Again, I disagree. Gates was there with a huge smile on his face because the occasion *symbolically* represented the Palm *operating system* throwing in the towel and admitting defeat to the Windows Mobile OS. Remember, the average person didn't/doesn't know that Palm and PalmSource are two separate entities. Palm isn't/wasn't Microsoft's competition. PalmSource (and the Palm OS) is. Palm was just a thorn in MS' side because they were keeping the Palm OS alive and the Treo was selling well. If the Treo 700w was nothing but a me-too WM smartphone, it would have still been worth Gates' time to fly out there and make a big whoop-de-doo about it. And the timing couldn't have been better, since PalmSource was in a weakened state and couldn't/didn't counter this through some loud (and expensive) marketing campaign to show to the public/analysts that they were still alive and well.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  14. #114  
    Someone named Bill Gates stood up at a news conference and said the biggest problem with the Palm 700W would be keeping them in stock. He talked about the huge contribution that Palm has made to the just released Windows OS. Palm talked about working for several years with the MSFT software people going back and forth making changes. Why would Gates help promote one of his licensees, to the detriment of all of his other licensees including Mot if there wasn't truth to it. Have they revealed all of their changes somewhere? No. But here is a small taste. Warning you will not get short cogent answers to your questions at any of the three links. What you will mainly get is inference as they are playing their cards close to the vest.

    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/f...0-03Knook.mspx
    To hear Gates comments go to the analyst conference and listen to the beginning of the Ed Colligan comments.
    http://www.shareholder.com/palm/MediaRegisterPost.cfm
    to view the conference for yourself
    http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/685-1.htm
  15. #115  
    I've seen all that before, and I thought I answered the question already. Why would Gates give them special treatment and puff them up? Because Palm is the only Palm OS licensee left and scoring them meant dealing a huge blow to his competition: the Palm OS. And Bill saying that Palm will have trouble keeping them in stock isn't going to have any real impact on the actual sales of these things (or hurt the sales of the competition). Consumers will pick it up and play with it just like they'll do with other WM phones and make their decision based on that and published reviews.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  16. #116  
    You answered the question Scott?

    Rather it seems like all you did was to suggest an alternative interpretation of Bill Gates actions. You suggest that Bill Gates doesn't care what he says and doesn't care if he is subsequently made to look foolish? My view is that if Gates didn't believe what he was saying, he would have preferred to have someone else say it. I don't think he favors one licensee over the others, unless there is an objective reason to do so. Clearly you are entitled to your opinion but I thought your I have already answered the question response was just a little bit overboard.
  17. #117  
    My apologies. I did not mean to sound condescending. I'm just offering my opinion, even though I think I'm right. But to address your other comments...do you really think anyone is going to go back to Bill later if the Treo 700w doesn't fly off the shelves and, even if they did, do you think he'd care? He's strutted around on-stage on *many* occasions talking about how this technology or that was going to be killer (see: Tablet PCs, SPOT watches, etc.) only to have those devices end up with lackluster sales. The day that he, Colligan, and the Verizon guy were on stage was all about publicity, marketing, and hype. It was not a stockholder conference call.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  18. #118  
    Well said. 75% of the success of the Treo is general convergence, and Palm users moving to the only viable Palm smartphone. This same effect wont apply to a WM Treo.

    Surur
  19. #119  
    "The day that he, Colligan, and the Verizon guy were on stage was all about publicity, marketing, and hype. It was not a stockholder conference call."

    I have to agree that is accurate. But you and I both know that Palm is really good at making devices function more intuitively, and that Windows, despite several technical advantages over Palm, has been a far less satisfying device to own for many because it takes more clicks to make things happen. Palm has the ability to improve the user friendliness of the Windows OS, and I think they did. It is a pretty cool marketing promise to be able to offer the tecnological power of Windows, with the ease of use of Palm. No one but Treo can deliver on that marketing promise imo.

    Palm will benefit handsomely from their windows modifications early next year. I only hope that educating MSFT on how to better compete with Palm, will not come back to bite Palm in the a-s at a later date. Palm's primary hope is that the smartphone is in such an early state of development that there will continue to be a myriad of chances to innovate, and therefore a great many opportunities for Palm to continue to distinguish themselves from their competitors going forward. The way I like to phrase that is that Palm is and will continue to be a moving target.
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Now what exactly will be so exclusive about Palm Windows that other WM devices don't have? EEEK, that sentence just looks bad!! Whoever would have thought we'd have to say that??

    Do you have a link?
    Ouch. You're right. PALM WINDOWS is an oxymoron of sorts. Makes my head hurt.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.

Posting Permissions