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  1. #21  
    Browsing desktop-optimized web sites on any mobile device (Windows Mobile devices included) is a pretty unsatisfying experience, IMO. I design web sites and when I think there's a need/desire for users to access the site from a mobile device, I create a separate mobile-friendly version of the site. There are two main issues with accessing desktop-optimized sites on a mobile device:
    1) Speed. 3G (or, as I prefer to think of it, 2.5G) networks such as Sprint's Vision service and GPRS (GSM networks), are still pretty slow. Ev-DO finally moves us up to acceptable speeds. Wi-Fi-enabled devices also have acceptable speeds. Various browsers can download pages faster than Blazer, too, though I personally like the usability of Blazer best so I end up using that one.
    2) Screen resolution. Even a "high-res" VGA Windows Mobile device isn't high-res enough for desktop-optimized web sites which are typically optimized for an 800-pixel-wide screen (sometimes even higher), so you'll usually have to do some left/right scrolling.

    Combine Ev-DO with an 800-pixel-wide screen on a mobile device, and I'll feel differently about wanting to access desktop-optimized web sites. Until then, I seek out mobile-friendly sites and only access desktop-optimized sites when I'm absolutely desperate to find something online and I always find that to be a very painful experience.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mipaul
    http://www.palmpower.com/issues/issu...er0902001.html

    Here it is. The comparison I referenced before. Clearly shows the Internet as it is shown with Internet Explorer (used on PC in every home in America AND ON ANY WINDOWS BASED SMART PHONE), then it shows 4 different "lovely" Treo browsers - which are funky versions. It doesn't show Blazer, but Blazer equally sucks. Treo is only good as a personal organizer. Windows smartphones will eventually wipe it out. Just take a look at the Motorola Q. Lighter than Treo, bigger screen, better Internet browser by a long shot, can open multiple apps at one time, and has better compatibility with home and work PCs. I am surprised people on this Treo site still debate the OS vs. Windows issue. It is what we call - "inevtiable!" I mean just the fact the Treo cant open two apps at the same time is emough to call it obsolete. Ha ha ha.
    You really should stop posting on this subject. What's the old saying?; Better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and prove it.

    The next Treo will be the 700w. The w stands for windows, so you're right that the windows will wipe it out but the "it" you're talking about is the Palm OS not the Treo. M$ recognizes the Palm Treo to be the best form factor on the market and they want a piece of the action.
  3. #23  
    Well someone said it...it's about the lack of speed...Even if mobile internet explorer was nicer it would still take forever to load a page so what 's the difference if it's better looking. I am not about to wait forever for a good looking web page on a 3 inch screen.

    I think for the speeds that are available the WAP versions suffice. Now with EVDO it's a different story, with those speeds I would expect a more desktop look because the speed will allow for it. These PDA's were never meant to replace a laptop but they are a lot better then your average cell phone. Try surfying the net with a 1.50 inch screen cell phone ...Now that's pointless, with the Treo it's tolerable.

    I was at first a little dissapointed in the Treo's browser but if you find the right PDA or WAP URL it is tolerable and convenient as isn't what PDA's are about convenience. Try putting a laptop in your pocket.
  4. #24  
    The speed discussion reminds me of the early days of broadband. Some users had faster connections, so let's load up every page with more *stuff* that slow them right back down...and those left on dialup, well....

    I for one would still use WAP sites with a faster connection. Right now even some wap sites load a bit slowly...with faster speed they would be near instantaneous. Sounds like a good thing to me.
    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    - Albert Einstein
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraOrdinaryJo
    The speed discussion reminds me of the early days of broadband. Some users had faster connections, so let's load up every page with more *stuff* that slow them right back down...and those left on dialup, well....
    Very true, AND, we're talking about very different real-estate for design. Most websites should have a version designed for mobile devices much smaller screen size AND things like 5-way navigation should be considered in mobile web site designs as well.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo2000
    sclare, what service do you subscribe to?
    Trying to see if anyone knows why when trying to access the blazer browser it takes my pone about 2 minutes to load the browser, Can anyone assist me with the reason.
    I subscribe to Sprint. and use the treo 600
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Browsing desktop-optimized web sites on any mobile device (Windows Mobile devices included) is a pretty unsatisfying experience, IMO. I design web sites and when I think there's a need/desire for users to access the site from a mobile device, I create a separate mobile-friendly version of the site. There are two main issues with accessing desktop-optimized sites on a mobile device:
    1) Speed. 3G (or, as I prefer to think of it, 2.5G) networks such as Sprint's Vision service and GPRS (GSM networks), are still pretty slow. Ev-DO finally moves us up to acceptable speeds. Wi-Fi-enabled devices also have acceptable speeds. Various browsers can download pages faster than Blazer, too, though I personally like the usability of Blazer best so I end up using that one.
    2) Screen resolution. Even a "high-res" VGA Windows Mobile device isn't high-res enough for desktop-optimized web sites which are typically optimized for an 800-pixel-wide screen (sometimes even higher), so you'll usually have to do some left/right scrolling.

    Combine Ev-DO with an 800-pixel-wide screen on a mobile device, and I'll feel differently about wanting to access desktop-optimized web sites. Until then, I seek out mobile-friendly sites and only access desktop-optimized sites when I'm absolutely desperate to find something online and I always find that to be a very painful experience.
    What's the best resolution for a mobile friendly site, please? Thanks!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  8. #28  
    Schneor and Mike, I stand corrected. Thanks! I thought it was because this isn't the first time I've heard someone say they get sent to the mobile version on the Treo.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by sclare
    Trying to see if anyone knows why when trying to access the blazer browser it takes my pone about 2 minutes to load the browser, Can anyone assist me with the reason.
    I subscribe to Sprint. and use the treo 600
    Can you clarify a little, please.

    Is it the application that takes 2 minutes to load, or a web page within the application?
    Are you opening to a home page (a specific web page)?

    -Try setting to open to bookmarks instead of homepage
    -Try clearing the cache
    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    - Albert Einstein
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    What's the best resolution for a mobile friendly site, please? Thanks!
    That's an interesting (and difficult) question, because mobile devices these days have a wide variety of screen resolutions. As a general rule of thumb, I would recommend using mostly text to improve download speeds and rendering times (another aspect that slows things down - and probably one of the aspects where Blazer scores poorly). Dealing mostly with text gets you around the issue of worrying too much about the target device's screen resolution.

    That said, I personally design around a 160-pixel-wide screen as a general guideline. That's obviously a lowest common denominator for the Palm OS that works well with any Palm OS device, but it also ends up looking good on Windows Mobile devices. I don't have access to any Nokia S60 phones or WM smartphones to see how my sites look on those, but I'd expect graphics optimized for 160-pixels-wide to translate well on those devices as well as S60's old standard resolution was 176x208 and WM Smartphone was 176x220. One thing I've noticed is that Palm's resolution boost on the Treo 650 has resulted in these 160-optimized graphics to now look too tiny. I've been meaning to experiment with one of my mobile sites to see if there was an easy way to improve that.

    If you have a dynamic web site that is database-driven and template-based for the front-end, you can even go crazy and create a few different mobile-friendly versions of your site, perhaps creating a text-only version that works on even the most basic of mobile devices and a somewhat higher-res and more feature-rich version for PDAs and smartphones. The good news is that if you have your content separate from your data, creating just the front-end HTML for a mobile site can be fairly quick, since you're dealing with a lot less code (and a much simpler layout).
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  11. #31  
    Thanks! I have a lot to learn about designing mobile sites. Is there a mobile browser simulator somewhere so I can check the look of any mobile site I build?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #32  
    In case anyone cares...

    I decided to go ahead and tweak the HTML on one of my mobile sites' home pages to see if I could trick my Treo 650 into displaying the header graphic to fill the width of the screen. You can see it here:
    Tapland.com mobile site

    To be specific, the graphic is 150 pixels wide. You can't use the full 160-pixel width because you need to take into account the possibility of a vertical scroll bar. I'm not sure if 150 pixels is the maximum or if you can eek out a few more pixels than that. In any case, on a Treo 600 it looked good and filled the screen width. On a Treo 650, it only took up the actual 150 pixels, so it looked kinda small. You can see the same effect on Treocentral's mobile site where the graphics look better on the Treo 600 than it does on the Treo 650.

    So to fix this, I just modified my HTML so that on the "img" HTML tag I "lied" and doubled the width and height. So now on a Treo 650 it will artificially double the width and height of the graphic. It's still only really a 150x26 graphic, so it will look a bit "blocky" on a Treo 650. The other alternative would be to create a new true 300x52 graphic, which a Treo 600 should downscale properly, but then you'll have a longer download time when using a proxyless web browser. For this sort of thing, I'd prefer to keep it blockier-looking but loading faster.

    So now the only question would be whether my HTML tweak may have caused any problems when displaying the page on a Treo 600. I'll check it out later with my wife's Treo 600. Assuming it works OK, I'll have to email this tip to the Treocentral team for them to implement on their mobile site.

    Sorry for boring most of you.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mipaul
    So why when I type in yahoo.com do I always get the WAP site. Cant I just get regualr Yahoo? Does it always default to WAP, even when I type "www.yahoo.com."
    Wow....for someone who really knows so little about how websites on the internet work, you're certainly claiming a lot when you say the treo sucks at it. That's probably why you're pissing people like myself off with the stupid things you're saying.

    First off, when you browse to a site, with any browser, not just the treo's, certain information gets sent to that site, like the browser you're using, it's capabilities (generally some version iteration of Mozilla), screen resolution, and some other odds and ends that are useful to the server in order to serve you the webpage. This is generally referred to as UserID, there's even an extension for firefox that allows you to change it. Both yahoo and google take a look at this string before sending back information, thus, when they see words like Treo, or Blazer, or Mozilla/4.0, they know that it's a mobile client, so they redirect you to the mobile site. That's why you don't see the full blown yahoo.com on your treo. If you really wanted to, there's probably a hack for blazer or another browser you can use to change the UserID to fool those sites into thinking you have a desktop browser.

    As for PocketPC's and PocketIE. PocketIE will also redirect you to a handheld version of google or yahoo unless you use Netfront (which allows you to change your UserID to something like IE6) and then you'll see the full fledged sites.

    So next time before you create a username and start going off about things you know little about, please do a little research and actually contribute something creative to the discussion here.
  14. #34  
    It's true that some sites will redirect you automatically to a mobile version. But for Google, you can go for example to deja.com and you'll see the normal google screen.
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
  15. #35  
    Say- Has anybody noticed that the blazer browser makes you enter passwords several time. On sites that have restricted access, (a password) I have noticed that blazer will make me enter the authentication info three or four times! This behaviour is very annoying.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraOrdinaryJo
    Can you clarify a little, please.

    Is it the application that takes 2 minutes to load, or a web page within the application?
    Are you opening to a home page (a specific web page)?

    -Try setting to open to bookmarks instead of homepage
    -Try clearing the cache

    The applicationn is taking 2 minutes, I already have the preferences set to open with the bookmarks first
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